This is for the people that have secured an agent: How did you handle the rejection beforehand?

ambmae

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So, based on what I've read from the forums here, it's pretty common to end up with more than one trunked manuscript before finding an agent and getting published.

I'm worried that the manuscript I worked on for five years (off and on) is headed down that path, with one request for a full that ended in a pass, two form rejections, and three more queries yet to hear back on, I'm having difficulty imagining another ending for it.

So, for those who went down that path, that wrote and wrote and took several tries to get it right, how did you keep going? How did you handle the self-doubt and rejection? How did you know you're writing was good, or at least, had the potential to be good?

I can't imagine not writing, it's become a part of me, but writing a full manuscript takes so much time and dedication, and trunking a manuscript is incredibly discouraging. Those who managed to get through a trunking, how did you do it?
 

mrsmig

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It's way too soon for you to be so discouraged. If you've only sent out six queries and got one full request out of those six (even if it ended in a pass), I'd say you're doing very well.

It takes time to find the right match. Be patient.
 

ambmae

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Thank you, that's sound advice. I definitely fall into the category of inpatient, but my question still stands. When one comes to the difficult decision to trunk something, how do they deal with the fall-out and continue forward? I ask in advance because it's how I think, I want to somehow prepare myself for the possibility, knowing full well that if it should come to that, I'm in good company.
 

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Thank you, that's sound advice. I definitely fall into the category of inpatient, but my question still stands. When one comes to the difficult decision to trunk something, how do they deal with the fall-out and continue forward? I ask in advance because it's how I think, I want to somehow prepare myself for the possibility, knowing full well that if it should come to that, I'm in good company.

I have not trunked anything I've subbed, but I may be heading in that direction.

All I can say is this: if you're hoping to have a career as a writer, you will always be writing the next thing. From that perspective, it matters less what happens to the one you've finished. Your way forward is the same whether your past work has seen success or not.

And trunked work need not stay that way. It may be that a trunked novel was queried at the wrong time - when the genre was saturated, or your skills weren't yet where they needed to be to tell that particular story properly. If this is a story you love, don't think of trunking as the end of it. It may only need to age, become refined, take some time away from you so you can make it become what it really needs to be.

But every writer, no matter how many or few sales they've made, has the same career path: write the next one. And when that one's done, write the one after that.

And good luck. Six really is a small number. :)
 

Marissa D

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Start working on a new book while you're querying the first. You'll not only become a better writer, but you might realize that maybe your first book isn't ready for prime time after all (but that doesn't mean you can't go back and rework it some day.) It's also a good idea to get used to the fact now that once you've completed a book, it has its own existence separate from you--and once it's published, that's even more true. While I'm at work on a book, I guard it fiercely. Once it's done and I send it out to be read (whether by my agent or anyone else) it ceases being my coddled infant and becomes a thing that I do my best to regard as dispassionately as possible.

Out of curiosity, has anyone seen your story? Did you have critique partners or beta readers? That can help toughen you up.

And yeah, six queries is just beginning. Not saying that your manuscript might not be gobbled up before you send out any more queries, but for most of us, it can take dozens and dozens and dozens of queries to find the right agent...and sometimes, it never happens.
 

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Admittedly, this question is a *really* tricky balancing act. To do your best work, you need to be really invested in what you're writing. But that means that if you need to trunk the novel, then there's a bit of heartbreak involved too. My path to representation was a bit wonky; I originally got an agent on my first try, with my first book, but it didn't work out, and we parted ways. Years later, this year in fact, I got an agent again, this time with my sixth book, and currently writing the seventh.

You basically just have to "wear your heart on your sleeve" in a sense. It's a bit like being that awkward kid at the school dance who is very self-consciously aware that he or she is unpopular and the other kids know it. You just have to put yourself out there and, metaphorically, ask someone else if they want to dance, fully aware that even you really like this person, they could say "no." I still like each and every book I wrote over those years, and, to my pleasant surprise, my current agent says at least one of them might be salvageable, so it may yet get a chance to shine. But you have to keep moving forward with new projects. And by that, I mean completely NEW projects. Don't keep writing sequels to your current book, because if you can't get book one off the ground, you'll have written a few more books in a series that won't see the light of day. Take the opportunity with each book to try different things, taking what you've learned from your other writer peers, and really try to push yourself to grow as a writer. Your first book is unlikely to be your best book. But your third or fifth? That might be it.

When I finally got representation again this second time, it was with an idea that I'd had years ago. I really liked the idea, but I also felt that I wasn't yet at a place as a writer where I could do it the way I wanted. So I wrote those other books I felt more confident about, and then when it was time, I finally decided to take the leap and write the book I'd been meaning to for years. I got lucky and an agent liked it, but this one just could have easily been trunked as well, and I would have moved onto the next book.
 

Dennis E. Taylor

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Speaking strictly for myself, I didn't look at my first novel being rejected as a failure--I looked at actually having written a novel as a success. Representation would have been a bonus.

And as Lizmonster says, the trunked novel is neither a failure nor a waste of time. Once your skills improve, you may see ways it can be improved, or you may write a whole new novel along the same lines. Worst case, it's practice on the way to becoming a published author. Best case, once you have representation and some visibility, you might have better luck with that trunked manuscript.

Bottom line: writing is a long game--a marathon, not a sprint. Patience.
 

mrsmig

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Thank you, that's sound advice. I definitely fall into the category of inpatient, but my question still stands. When one comes to the difficult decision to trunk something, how do they deal with the fall-out and continue forward? I ask in advance because it's how I think, I want to somehow prepare myself for the possibility, knowing full well that if it should come to that, I'm in good company.

I can only give you my own experience as a case in point.

I finished my first book when I was in my early twenties. I knew nothing about the publishing business and this was long before the internet. I went to the library, consulted the latest edition of Publishers Marketplace, and chose a well-known publisher I thought would be a good fit for my book - a big fat epic fantasy somewhere in the neighborhood of 150k words. I wrote a cover letter ("Dear Publisher, this is my book, hope you like it, etc."), packaged it up with the manuscript and sent it off. After three months I nudged. Got a letter back saying they were still considering it. Nudged again a few months later; got a similar response. Finally got the m/s back with a letter from an editor, informing me that they would be interested in seeing the m/s again if I could cut about 25k words out of it and amp up the magical aspects.

As I said, I didn't know anything about publishing. I didn't understand that the revise & resubmit was a serious step. I went back through the m/s, cut out about 10k words and added a few spells, and sent it off to the editor. Within the month it was back with another letter from the editor, informing me that I hadn't done as she'd asked, and wishing me luck placing it elsewhere. I felt like I'd wasted my time, blown my one and only shot, and I trunked the m/s. I kept on writing, although not fiction.

Real life and decades intervened. Occasionally I'd get the m/s out and look it over. While some of the writing and plot choices made me wince, I felt there was still the germ of a good story there. Sometimes I'd fiddle with it, but I simply didn't have the time and energy to devote to a major revision. It wasn't until 2010 that I tackled the m/s again, this time with an eye toward finishing it and getting it published. It took me nearly two years to get it into shape, by which time I realized I had a series rather than a single book. Tack on another year to get the first book polished, then another six months to research the publishing business and to learn how to write a query letter. It was another three to four months before I found an agent, and another two years for the agent to find a publisher for the damn thing. It finally sold in 2016, and the first book in the series came out in August of this year (see my sig below).

So...decades. Chew on that for a bit. In retrospect, I don't think I was at all ready to be published when I got that R&R. I needed to learn how to write better, find out more about the business, and develop maturity, a thicker skin and a more determined mindset. People here will tell you again and again that this business isn't a sprint; it's a marathon - and that was certainly true for me.
 
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spikeman4444

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So, based on what I've read from the forums here, it's pretty common to end up with more than one trunked manuscript before finding an agent and getting published.

I'm worried that the manuscript I worked on for five years (off and on) is headed down that path, with one request for a full that ended in a pass, two form rejections, and three more queries yet to hear back on, I'm having difficulty imagining another ending for it.

So, for those who went down that path, that wrote and wrote and took several tries to get it right, how did you keep going? How did you handle the self-doubt and rejection? How did you know you're writing was good, or at least, had the potential to be good?

I can't imagine not writing, it's become a part of me, but writing a full manuscript takes so much time and dedication, and trunking a manuscript is incredibly discouraging. Those who managed to get through a trunking, how did you do it?

I thought I would be published after I wrote my first MS. I've now completed 9, and the cycle for me is essentially the same every time. Initial fire and passion for a new idea and project, it fades about halfway through the novel, then I have to fight through to the finish, then I trunk it for a few months, then edit and submit to agents. If rejected, then eventually, inevitably, the desire to write something new kicks in and the same passion which I swear every time will wither and die springs up anew in me and it becomes fun again.

I found my agent last year and I can personally say that being agented is the same rejection just at a different level. You still have all of the same doubts and worries and fears and you still question everything you write.

I told myself after MS 5 or 6 that it would be the last one I would write. My last effort. But then ideas for 7 and 8 and 9 came up and I just couldn't help myself. If I look back at my life when I'm on my death bed, I want to be able to say that I gave everything I had to my dream of being published, and I'll be able to live with those results whatever they may be, knowing I put my effort into it and didn't quit. So for me, that's the motivation. Fear of wondering what would have happened if I kept going instead of giving up. So far it nabbed me an agent after 9 tries. Maybe a publishing deal comes after attempt 18. I won't know unless I keep at it.
 

ambmae

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Out of curiosity, has anyone seen your story? Did you have critique partners or beta readers? That can help toughen you up.

I allowed family members to beta for me (hides face in hands) they all loved it, haha, but also gave some valuable notes for plotting and caught a few grammatical errors. Finally, I gave it to a fourteen-year-old girl who I've never met, but loves books. She also loved it and gave some good notes on plotting. I've had some feedback from my local writer's guild, but they only do critiques once every four months, so I've only had a small sampling of crit from them. Basically, all my crits have been the opposite of hardcore. I really need to find a crit group to join, but the one I was invited to is on facebook, and I haven't been doing facebook this year in an effort to curb a social media addiction, and subsequently made my life so much happier. But I haven't given up hope on finding a good crit group, it just hasn't happened yet. :)
 

ambmae

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I thought I would be published after I wrote my first MS. I've now completed 9, and the cycle for me is essentially the same every time. Initial fire and passion for a new idea and project, it fades about halfway through the novel, then I have to fight through to the finish, then I trunk it for a few months, then edit and submit to agents. If rejected, then eventually, inevitably, the desire to write something new kicks in and the same passion which I swear every time will wither and die springs up anew in me and it becomes fun again.

Yeah, that's pretty much why it took 5 years for me to finish my first manuscript. Although I think I've learned a lot about dealing with it. Since I started querying last month I've written 26,000 words on the next one and I haven't slowed down yet.

Y'all are super inspiring. I'm afraid that I've let my millennial show through in this post, but it's too late now, haha. Based on what I'm reading I've formulated the following plan:
* Keep writing
* Keep living
*When I get rejected keep writing anyway
*Define success as having a finished piece of work and queries sent out rather than having a published piece

Now, you all know that I'm crazy and I like to disaster plan. Anyway, thanks to everyone who commented, it's helped me work through my anxiety, hey, maybe I can channel that into my next book!

Marathon not a sprint.... Marathon not a sprint...
 

hester

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I got an agent on my fifth completed book. The other four are in a place where they will never see the light of day :) (and yes, I tried securing representation with those, to no avail).

I'm now on completed book number six, with a new agent :).

It's a looooong process. My advice is to have faith in your craft, but don't be afraid to take breaks from it if it becomes exhausting or demoralizing. Know that all the time spent writing and revising is never wasted--on a personal level, I feel like my craft has improved significantly (which doesn't mean I don't have days of crushing self-doubt--goes with the territory :)).

Like you said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And good luck!!!!!
 

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So, for those who went down that path, that wrote and wrote and took several tries to get it right, how did you keep going? How did you handle the self-doubt and rejection? How did you know you're writing was good, or at least, had the potential to be good?

By being stubborn and obsessive as hell, heh.

I mean, it's a cliche, but I really do believe that line about a professional being an amateur who didn't give up.

At times it did feel like I was just pouring huge amounts of time and effort into something that might never pan out and wondered what I was doing with my life. But getting good at anything requires a similar investment of time and effort and similar levels of risk. Most people who learn how to play an instrument never become professional musicians, etc. I just reminded myself that I was doing something that was personally fulfilling to me, and that I was losing nothing except my own time...and there are far worse ways to spend your time. What would I be doing in that spare time if not writing? Watching TV? As far as hobbies go, writing is probably one of the least expensive ones you can choose; all you need is pen and paper (or a keyboard and screen).

And, eventually, it did pay off.
 
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Hi ambmae,

You've had some great advice here so I'm not going to repeat any of it. Just two practical things - If you haven't already found a good book on editing your own work, I strongly recommend Self-Editing for Fiction Writers. I learned a lot from this and feedback from my editors generally is that I submit very clean first drafts. Secondly, re critique groups, they're not for everyone. Personally I never found a group I felt comfortable with. Most groups have writers at varying levels, and with varying interests, so you may find that for the time you put into the groups you're not getting a whole lot that materially improves your writing. You have to learn to read and edit your own stuff - this will be critical when you do eventually get published and you are under deadline. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that critique groups work for some writers, but not for others, and it's okay to find out what works for you.

Best of luck!
 

ambmae

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Thanks MaggieMC, I've got it on hold at the library already :)
 

zmethos

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I was signed by my agent last month after several years of writing and submitting (but before that I had self-published and been small press published). The manuscript that nabbed me representation was probably my most workshopped manuscript, which means it ended up being my most polished once I sent it out on query. I think the critique group I found last year has been great for me. I found mine on Meetup.com, so you might check there for groups in your area, or see if your local library has a group?

As others have said, too, you get better with practice. So keep writing and honing your craft. It's heartbreaking when something you've worked so long and hard on fails to succeed in the way you hoped. But that doesn't make YOU a failure. Set that one aside and work on the next project. You can always go back to the first one when you've learned a little more or feel more confident. (My first book was my Master's thesis and I still have not gone back to revise it, though I keep telling myself I will some day.)
 

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Read this. Best-selling author Sarah Dessen on her 13 books that never saw the light of day. And yes, this also happens after you are published. This seems to be a universal truth for writers: not all the work you do will pay off in any obvious way.

That's why it's so important to love the work you do. I wrote roughly four novels (and many, many drafts) before the published one. It took me about a decade to get from first-ever query to sale. For someone like me, writing is not an economically efficient process. But, like the Otter, I decided it was about personal fulfillment for me. If I could choose any way to spend my time, it would be writing fiction.

There were setbacks that were tough to get through, like rejected fulls, a book that died on sub, and losing an agent. Those still happen after you're published, too. "Two steps forward and three steps back" is a common pattern in writing. If I had to give any advice, I would say, "Take in praise, take it seriously, but DO NOT EVER EVER allow yourself to get dependent on it." Whether you are getting rejections or raves, always have resources to fall back on — like your love of reading and writing.

"How do you know you're good?" Oh boy, I've agonized over that question. Now I think the answer is: you don't, any more than you can "know" you are "bad." Because there are as many reactions to your books as there are readers. I used to hope that once an agent or editor had praised my work, I would become one of those perfectly poised, confident writers who dance from success to success in my imagination. Guess what: nope.

One possible mark of being "good" (or having potential to be good) COULD be the ability to take in constructive criticism and revise. To keep learning and pushing your boundaries. And yes, if you get nibbles and positive responses here and there, that's a good sign, but it's no guarantee of anything. There are NO guarantees in writing unless they are in a contract. :)

Supportive writing communities are very important. I had none for a long, long time. Now I have AW and a few others. When it comes to critique groups, the right one can be unbelievably helpful. I love my small face-to-face group because we do similar types of writing and have similar experience levels, and that enables us to help each other. I would recommend seeking out crit partners who work in your category/genre and whose writing you feel enthusiastic about. Then you can be harsh on them for their own good. :)
 
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polishmuse

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Lots of FABULOUS advice thus far, and don't worry about letting your "millennial" show. A lot of us are in that generation, too, and developing thicker skin is possible.

Like many of the above, my first book wasn't the one that secured me rep, and I sent it to about 100 agents before calling it a day. I learned so much from the process of writing and querying that I gave it another go, and my second book secured me rep after forty or so queries. Now I'm on sub with that book to publishers and nearing the end of that list, so I might be trunking book two! I didn't realize the rejection doesn't end when you get an agent, even if you get a great one! But I've got book three waiting in the wings ready to edit with agent and book four drafting now. The key is controlling what you can control and letting the other stuff go. What can I control? My writing and reading time, making friends with good beta readers, and finding other things to keep me busy so I don't check my email nonstop (which is way harder than it seems). The best advice I can suggest is:
1. submit to all of the agents that you feel comfortable subbing to, and realize that a rejection doesn't mean you're bad. When they say that it isn't right for their list-- it probably isn't. If you haven't had some real tough reads, you might think about another read or two before you sub further, but getting a request at all is good!
2. start something new. It will keep you distracted.
3. keep reading, up to and including the acknowledgements. You'll sometimes find good agents to query in the thank yous of your favorite recent books. Add them on query tracker so you don't forget with a note of the book/author that you read!

Best of luck! You wrote a book, and that's awesome! Enjoy that and the completely weirdness of the rest of the process. No matter what, you'll have a good story to tell with your writing friends some day about querying.
 

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I don't have a ton to add here but just wanted to say these responses are really good and I'm taking a lot of this to heart for my own process right now.
 

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1 query out of 6 is FANTASTIC stats! I heard that a 10% request rate on cold queries means your query is solid, so as long as you keep it up at this rate, you're doing well.

It only takes one.
 

Metruis

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I've never pitched a book before (because I'm a wuuuuuusssssss with multiple trunked manuscripts *ahem*) but I HAVE done cold sales. The kind of cold sales where you flag someone down in a mall and try get them to sponsor children. The kind where you knock on doors and try sell you different television/internet/phone packages. Real... cold pitching... and let me tell you, that is punctuated with rejection. A TON of rejection.

In the sorts of cold sales I've done, your goal is to be hitting around a 1/10 conversion rate. That means 1/10 people you have a decent conversation with should buy the product. This should give you a good perspective of what a mall salesperson is expecting to deal with–not "1/10 people", because some people go out of their way to not look at you, pretend to be on their phone, slam the door in your face, pretend to not speak English–that's not a good contact. If you're not making those numbers, which are statistically pretty likely to pan out, even if you end up getting them in weird clumps, then you adjust the product or your pitch.

So, if you got 1/6 agents to request your book, you're doing, statistically, great! And this is how you cope with it. It's not your fault that those 9/10 people say no, they're having a bad day, they have a ton of the genre, they just bought a book with the same kind of theme and don't want two merman books, it's just not what the market needs right now. If those 1/10 say no, that's indication of a problem. Say you get 30 no's in a row, then maybe your book or your pitch needs a look. If you get 3-6 requests for fulls in there, then your pitch worked as intended, because closing the deal in this case is just trying to get a request for more. The second part of the sale comes with your work. If 1/10 agents who requested your full agree to represent you, statistically, that would be average for sales–because now your book is serving as the pitch. If you got more offers, then your product was great. If you don't get any offers for representation, then it's your book that needs the revising.

And you console yourself by saying, well, it was the stats. 9/10 agents don't want your novel because of reasons you can't control, it really DOESN'T suit their needs at this time, and whatever, you started writing because you enjoy writing, not because of the money and success and fame.

And then you move on and do it again.

And again.

And again.

This is the part that breaks potential salespeople. I've seen GOOD salespeople quit after a few weeks because the slog just isn't for them. Sales is hard, and selling a book is a multi-tiered sales process in which you have to secure representation (first by getting a request for chapters/pages/fulls, and then by convincing them with the actual reading) and then allow them to sell your product to a publishing house...

Selling a book is hard.

You must let the rejection bounce off of you. It is not personal. It is only the numbers. The numbers working against you, statistically making it impossible for everyone to be happy with your novel fitting into their business plan. You can only win by papering the inboxes of potential agents relentlessly, modifying appropriately if you notice a lack of response. Statistically, someone will buy it eventually... and if not, you can always self-publish, or fuel the agitation of waiting for the inevitable punch to the gut of rejection by writing another novel to spread across the desks of agents.

Good luck, and I think with a 1/6, you're going to be just fine. :D
 

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I got an agent on my ... millionth manuscript? Honestly, I can't bear to count them, but it's more than a handful, or two handfuls. It took me years and I'm an old crone now. Did I wish it'd been faster? Heck yeah, but I try to look only at my own paper. Hard to do because sometimes I can't help but compare myself to others, and that's where I get sucked into a quicksand of self-pity and woe and too much ice cream.

What helps A LOT is to start working on the next while you're querying. Now I look back at my old manuscripts and I totally understand THEY SUCK and deserve to be rejected, but I got better from manuscript to manuscript. I still think some of the premise in my old manuscripts can work, and I'm going to revisit and revise the crap out of a few of them, so maybe they're not really "trunked".

Another thing that helps A TON is critiquing others' work. And having writer friends going through the same thing as you.

And 1 request out of 6 is pretty great!
 
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