This one hurt

Tarley

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I had a full request from a top agent which I was super excited about because she was one of my dream agents. After she had the manuscript for about two weeks she emailed me to say she was "in love with it" and mentioned several very specific incidents in my story that she liked (and were about 3/4 of the way through so I know she was reading it). She concluded that she would be in touch soon to discuss. Understandably, I was over the moon excited.

Then, two months passed without a word until yesterday when I got a "dear author" form rejection from her. I am just completely blown away by this. I seriously don't think my story tanked so badly in the last 50 pages. Maybe shame on me for getting too excited too soon but wow, from 'being in love' to 'this is not a good fit for my list' seems a little extreme.

Sigh. On to the next agent.

~Tarley
 

Lauram6123

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Oh, holy smoke, that is awful.

But don't beat yourself up. Anyone who got that kind of initial feedback would have gotten completely excited, too. I know I would have.

Give yourself time to feel crappy about it, but don't get discouraged. It's a good sign to hear such encouraging things even if it didn't ultimately pan out with this particular agent.
 

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It probably didn't tank, if it makes you feel better. It was probably an issue of her figuring out what to do with it. If she wasn't sure who she'd pitch it to or if she knew that it needed revision but wasn't sure what exactly it needed, she might let go of a story she enjoyed that she thinks someone else could sell better. While it'd be nice to have some sort of confirmation of what she liked and what she was rejecting it for, many agents have a form rejection policy that they're strict to, and she's probably one of them.
 

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Hi Tarley,

That does hurt. I had a similar thing happen to me, an agent wrote to say he was halfway through the MS and "loved it"...and then rejected it two weeks later. It hurt, really hurt, at first. But it allowed me to look at my work with a more critical eye--it was a good lesson that even though someone can love your writing, if they don't think they can sell that particular story, they won't take it on.

If your work moved someone enough to write you that they loved it, than that is a good thing. As far as getting too excited--there is no other way to interpret "I'm in love with your book." I'm guilty of starting to daydream as soon as a full is requested...and you know what? That little bit of hope is what keeps me going through the slog of rejections.
 

mccardey

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You know what you've got? A top agent who'll read your next one.

But :Hug2: because that was a bit brutal.
 

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I'm sorry. All the silver linings aside, that has to really sting. :(
 

Tarley

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Thanks for all the kind words. :) The bright side I have to focus on is all my requests/rejections are coming from top level agents. Makes me think I've got "something" that's getting their attention...at least a little.
 

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That sucks and incredibly cruel of her to do that. It's like waving a steak bone in front of a starving dog :( To say "I love it" and then give you a rejection is horrible. The agent shouldn't say anything until she's decided if she's going to make you an offer and if she's not then sure offer some uplifting words about what they liked and what they didn't. I hope this isn't normal agent behavior.

I'm sorry and I hope you find a really good agent <3
 

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maybe, i think, in those cases, the agent should at least hint as to why the complete turn against the novel....
 

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Goodness. That's not very professional or kind at all to get someone's hopes up that high and then send along a form rejection. I know it sounds cliche, but it seems like someone who cares so little about his/her potential clients is probably not the ideal person to end up working with anyway. :(
 

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I don't want to make you paranoid (people say I tend to be paranoid), but I wonder if something fishy is going on.

I don't understand how she can switch from being "in love" with your work to being so ice cold distant.

I wonder: Under the circumstances, isn't it appropriate to write a letter to her inquiring as to her sudden disinterest.

I'd love to hear feedback on that.

Also, people think I am a paranoid about copyright infringement, but I wander if someone is stealing your stuff. Also, ideas can't be copyrighted so someone can rewrite your novel, positing a similar plot and themes but using their own words.

There is something I read that I will never forget: The playwrite Lillian Hellman, at the beginning of her career, read two books a day for MGM looking for stories that could be adapted into films. I wonder if her smash hit plays were based on stories she read while working at MGM.
 

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I don't want to make you paranoid (people say I tend to be paranoid), but I wonder if something fishy is going on.

I don't understand how she can switch from being "in love" with your work to being so ice cold distant.

I wonder: Under the circumstances, isn't it appropriate to write a letter to her inquiring as to her sudden disinterest.

I'd love to hear feedback on that.

Don't do this. Really. Don't do this.

Also, people think I am a paranoid about copyright infringement, but I wander if someone is stealing your stuff. Also, ideas can't be copyrighted so someone can rewrite your novel, positing a similar plot and themes but using their own words.

Are you suggesting a top agent is involved in facilitating plagiarism or copyright infringement?

There is something I read that I will never forget: The playwrite [sic] Lillian Hellman, at the beginning of her career, read two books a day for MGM looking for stories that could be adapted into films. I wonder if her smash hit plays were based on stories she read while working at MGM.
 

Davy The First

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Also, people think I am a paranoid about copyright infringement, but I wander if someone is stealing your stuff. Also, ideas can't be copyrighted so someone can rewrite your novel, positing a similar plot and themes but using their own words.

Thanks David.

Was feeling a little low, but that gave me a good hearty chuckle.
 

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I don't want to make you paranoid (people say I tend to be paranoid), but I wonder if something fishy is going on.

I don't understand how she can switch from being "in love" with your work to being so ice cold distant.

I wonder: Under the circumstances, isn't it appropriate to write a letter to her inquiring as to her sudden disinterest.

I'd love to hear feedback on that.

Also, people think I am a paranoid about copyright infringement, but I wander if someone is stealing your stuff. Also, ideas can't be copyrighted so someone can rewrite your novel, positing a similar plot and themes but using their own words.

There is something I read that I will never forget: The playwrite Lillian Hellman, at the beginning of her career, read two books a day for MGM looking for stories that could be adapted into films. I wonder if her smash hit plays were based on stories she read while working at MGM.

An agent who would give a form rejection to a novel that she loved half of is probably doing so because she got burned by authors who reacted poorly to feedback. In that case, she's probably not going to appreciate authors coming to her demanding she gives feedback after her rejection. A form rejection is not "ice cold distant." It is simply the standard response from most agents for most queries and subs. Agents give form rejections to avoid you reading anything into their response other than "not for me", but we authors are just so good at reading things into it anyway.

An agent who was looking for ideas would not have to ask for a full. The pitch would do. Taking a brilliant full novel, stealing it, but changing enough to avoid copyright infringement would probably strip all brilliance of the original and take more work than just writing your own novel. Furthermore, an agent who was stealing ideas would not make her interest in the book so transparent to the author. She would play it cool with radio silence, then a form rejection. Finally, an agent who was stealing ideas (or more) from submissions would be found out pretty fast. You are far from the only author to ever be paranoid that betas, agents, and even editors are out to steal their work.

ETA: By the way, David, if you really are too worried to submit your novel without paying to register copyright and announcing that you have to everybody you query, despite all the advice against doing so, none of us can actually stop you.
 
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There is something I read that I will never forget: The playwrite Lillian Hellman, at the beginning of her career, read two books a day for MGM looking for stories that could be adapted into films. I wonder if her smash hit plays were based on stories she read while working at MGM.

For crying out loud, how do you think books get optioned for films?

It's common for studios to pay people for coverage (reading scripts) and to write up books that might potentially be worth optioning. And no, they're not infringing; they license the book; the author is paid. And yes, that's one of the services agents perform for their authors.

I don't think you're paranoid regarding copyright, I think you're woefully ignorant and therefore posting without understanding the basics.
 

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There is something I read that I will never forget: The playwrite Lillian Hellman, at the beginning of her career, read two books a day for MGM looking for stories that could be adapted into films. I wonder if her smash hit plays were based on stories she read while working at MGM.

For crying out loud, how do you think books get optioned for films?

It's common for studios to pay people for coverage (reading scripts) and to write up books that might potentially be worth optioning. And no, they're not infringing; they license the book; the author is paid. And yes, that's one of the services agents perform for their authors.
Not to mention that reading 2 books a day would probably help you understand the art of storytelling really well
 

DeviatedDavid

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For crying out loud, how do you think books get optioned for films?

It's common for studios to pay people for coverage (reading scripts) and to write up books that might potentially be worth optioning. And no, they're not infringing; they license the book; the author is paid. And yes, that's one of the services agents perform for their authors.

I don't think you're paranoid regarding copyright, I think you're woefully ignorant and therefore posting without understanding the basics.

my response (And I hope I am not imposing on your time)

I fully realize that studios pay people to read books and plays to hunt for material that could be turned into a movie. And I fully realize that if a studio wants to use a book they will contact the author and buy the rights to make such a movie. I was suggesting someting entirely different:

I suggested that perhaps Hellman got ideas from reading books for MGM and that some of the material that Hellman liked, that was not used by MGM, appeared later in works written by Hellman.

(Incidentally, I loved Hellman, both her plays and her memoirs)

Also, since I mentioned that ideas cannot by copyrighted, this sort of thing is extremely easy to do.

For example, if one is a professsor and must contend with the publish or perish doctrine, one has a saving salvo up one's sleeve: One's students. One can use the ideas proffered by students in their terms papers and theses, and then one can write an article in which one poses as the originator of the ideas.

I hope this is not offending people. I get the sense that today many young people gravitate to the idea that we should not be hung up on ownership rights, that in an ideal society ideas and art should be given with abundance and without resrtiction and that I am an anally retentive cheapo who is hung up about money and property.

Well, I am a bit Marxian in that I do believe that matieral issues, i.e., money, makes the world go round. You cannot get groceries from the store by telling the proprietor that you have written lovely novels. You cannot get medical care by telling the doctor that you have written poingant, profound poetry. As I think have said before (And this may be apparent from my posts which betray an ignorance of many facets of publishing), I am on the outskirts of the literary community, having spent most of my professional life as an attorney. However, certain things about writers and writing become more and more abundant to me:

Writers are severely persecuted by society at large. They are hideously under-valued. I think certain phenomena are only making things worse:

Because of the internet and the concomittant ability to read more and more stuff for free, I think people are less apt to spend money on reading matter. Because of the superfluity of so much media, most of it utter noise, people are too busy surfing the 800 channels on their television or the millions of web sites on the internet, to read much of anything.

There is something utterly disgusting when the President of the United States is an illiterate bozo who thinks about missiles the way an 8 year old boy thinks about his phallus, and bright, creative people are starving.
 

mccardey

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I hope this is not offending people..
Of course it's offending people! I don't care about your Marxist beliefs, but you're suggesting - on a website that has more than a few industry professionals volunteering their time and advice - that industry professionals are more likely than not to be utterly untrustworthy.

That's going to offend people.
 
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Sage

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Every brilliant idea you have for a novel has been thought up before. I promise you. Maybe it was published or not, or maybe it was in some other form of media, or it was some story passed down verbally, or the idea popped into the head of six different authors at 5:04 a.m. last Tuesday, but your idea is not copyrightable because it's been someone else's idea before.

I will give you an example.

I have a novel I'm querying. I picked up a book that had been published the week I started sending to agents. No way either the author or myself could have been influenced by each other's books. In mine, there was a kingdom-wide contest pitting two people who were close to each other against each other, one had a heart condition, weather magic was important, and the two sides of the contest were represented by blue and yellow. In theirs, there was a kingdom-wide contest pitting two people who were close to each other against each other, one had a heart condition, weather magic was important, and the two sides of the contest were represented by blue and yellow. At an idea-level, it sounds like we have the same book. But how it was executed was completely different. The stories, setting, characters, and writing are miles different.

The reason ideas aren't copyrightable is that they can't be. The reason you don't have to worry about it is that a) there are plenty of ideas out there for every author, b) the idea itself won't sell a book, and c) if someone uses more than an idea from someone else's work, that does infringe on copyright.




I'm sure someone else will have plenty to say about your professor example.
 

Helix

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my response (And I hope I am not imposing on your time)

I fully realize that studios pay people to read books and plays to hunt for material that could be turned into a movie. And I fully realize that if a studio wants to use a book they will contact the author and buy the rights to make such a movie. I was suggesting someting entirely different:

I suggested that perhaps Hellman got ideas from reading books for MGM and that some of the material that Hellman liked, that was not used by MGM, appeared later in works written by Hellman.

(Incidentally, I loved Hellman, both her plays and her memoirs)

Oh, my goodness. As a former lawyer, you surely know what you're doing here.

Also, since I mentioned that ideas cannot by copyrighted, this sort of thing is extremely easy to do.

For example, if one is a professsor and must contend with the publish or perish doctrine, one has a saving salvo up one's sleeve: One's students. One can use the ideas proffered by students in their terms papers and theses, and then one can write an article in which one poses as the originator of the ideas.

You'd have to be a piss poor academic to lift stuff from a term paper to make something publishable out of it. And theses are usually freely available, so that ruse wouldn't last very long. If you're going to commit academic fraud, you need to nick that data. HTH.


I hope this is not offending people. I get the sense that today many young people gravitate to the idea that we should not be hung up on ownership rights, that in an ideal society ideas and art should be given with abundance and without resrtiction and that I am an anally retentive cheapo who is hung up about money and property.

I suspect you're offending a bunch of young people. But not being one, I don't presume to speak for them.

Well, I am a bit Marxian in that I do believe that matieral issues, i.e., money, makes the world go round. You cannot get groceries from the store by telling the proprietor that you have written lovely novels. You cannot get medical care by telling the doctor that you have written poingant, profound poetry.

I get the feeling that you've thrown in Marx to be a bit edgy and daring. This Socialist wonders why you've used him to segue into Capitalism. (Hint: You have to read more than the title of Das Kapital to get a feel for his philosophy.) And, no, you can't get groceries by talking about your novel, but you can get groceries by selling your novel. You can pay your medical expenses from the royalties of your books.

As I think have said before (And this may be apparent from my posts which betray an ignorance of many facets of publishing), I am on the outskirts of the literary community, having spent most of my professional life as an attorney.

You learnt about law. Now learn about publishing. There's a lot less Latin involved.

However, certain things about writers and writing become more and more abundant to me:

Writers are severely persecuted by society at large. They are hideously under-valued. I think certain phenomena are only making things worse:

Because of the internet and the concomittant ability to read more and more stuff for free, I think people are less apt to spend money on reading matter. Because of the superfluity of so much media, most of it utter noise, people are too busy surfing the 800 channels on their television or the millions of web sites on the internet, to read much of anything.

There is something utterly disgusting when the President of the United States is an illiterate bozo who thinks about missiles the way an 8 year old boy thinks about his phallus, and bright, creative people are starving.

M80, try switching from transmit to receive. Learning stuff is fun.