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Gator House Publishing

VeryBigBeard

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I think this is likely someone who does not really know what they're getting into.

I see very, very little on that site that convinces me this house is going to last beyond a few months, if that.

I'd say wait and see, but frankly the success rate for this kind of thing is so low anyway. Too many mistakes early on--and there are more here than make sense to list--and the house will never survive the initial capital losses. I'm just going to assume there's not a whole lot of capital here because, yanno, Wix.
 

aliceshortcake

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I couldn't find any info about Michelle Williamson, possibly because she's a time traveller - the Gator House website is copyrighted 2023! Oddly enough, the LinkedIn symbol on Gator House's home page leads to the profile of Robert Wilkins, a student at Trident Tech University, North Charleston:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-wilkins-5bb701151/

Robert is also a time traveller - he left Trident Tech next year.

The clunky English on Gator House's website makes me doubt their ability to recognise publishable material:

We are proud to announce our journey to bring readers of all ages the most compelling stories has begun. We are geared at publishing books that will not sit on a shelf but will rest gracefully in our reader's hands. If times have taught us anything it is that a great story transports readers between the covers and traps them there until the end.

We strive to bring well-written novels woven with compelling stories to the market-place.Payment is paid in royalties & subject to contract and type of publication.
https://www.gatorhousepublishing.com/

I wouldn't touch this one with a bargepole.
 
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Maryn

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I do love poking around on the internet. Robert Wilkins' Facebook page is clearly the right guy, since it shows Gator House and that he's a student at Trident Tech, where he studies General Business and Entrepreneurship. But if you have LinkedIn (I don't, so I see the info blocked under a pop-up to join), apparently he's also a driver for Pizza Hut--a perfectly honorable way to earn money--because that's the same guy as on Facebook.

All this suggests that he has no background in publishing. I'm not suggesting he is dishonest or anything, just that it may not be a good decision to go with a publisher with zero experience in the trade.

Maryn, who's got paint on one hand
 

frimble3

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If he's not in Louisiana, why 'Gator'? Is his office paneled in 'Gator Board' (possibly trademarked?) Of the three division logos, one is a cartoon gator, the second is a silhouette of... some creature. The third appears to be a gator-tail, appropriately enough for the 'Gator Tales' division.

There are weirdnesses.
'Gator Bites' is for children, from 3-8. Picture books and chapter books. Normal enough.
The division for 'Gator Tales' is for 'young adults' - starting at age 9. Novels and chapter books. Maybe they mean 'chapbooks', as they also do poetry?
'Gator Books' is adult fiction. Normal enough. Across a wide range of genres. Often seen as a problem with small or start-up publishers, though, because it can seem unfocussed. Do they have expertise in everything from poetry to literary fiction, fantasy, thrillers and romance (to name but a few)?
And, they have a short story contest: No entry fee (good), first prize $50.00 (realistic, for a start-up), top five manuscripts to be selected for publication in an anthology. Eh. There are no theme or genre restrictions. Tough to judge, and if they get a mix, could make for an 'interesting' anthology.

TO CLARIFY:
I don't think it's a scam. A scam would have GREATER QUALIFICATIONS! MORE PROMISES! BIGGER PRIZES!
I suspect that he's just new to publishing.
 
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VeryBigBeard

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Most of these kinds of places aren't started will ill intent. If this guy's a student in entrepreneurship, well, it's the sort of project student's try and there wouldn't be anything wrong with that if it weren't for the fact that, in books, you're not just fronting your own capital but also a bunch of rights to intellectual property you have to buy.

When these sorts of places go, everyone gets burned. I realize this isn't news to any of you in this thread, but I feel for the authors such a facebook campaign will snare.
 

Gillhoughly

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I have decades more experience and qualifications in publishing than this guy and ain't opening any publishing business. The paperwork alone should send anyone running. Contracts, payouts, figuring royalties, dealing with (gasp) writers! No, thank you. I might end up with a pack of unreasonable divas just like me! ;)
 

VeryBigBeard

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I have decades more experience and qualifications in publishing than this guy and ain't opening any publishing business. The paperwork alone should send anyone running. Contracts, payouts, figuring royalties, dealing with (gasp) writers! No, thank you. I might end up with a pack of unreasonable divas just like me! ;)

It's exactly this--all the stuff that nobody starting from the outside considers: book return shipments showing up in the rain, hardware/software breaking at the busiest time, editors getting sick or going on maternity/paternity leave, etc.

To be clear, I have exactly one month of publishing experience, on an internship at a small publisher that probably wasn't all that great and has long been no more.

We tried hard.

And that's not good enough.

It doesn't make a jot of difference if the experience isn't there to get books to market. The main thing I learned that month is how much mistakes in the first couple years matter. That house had some successes. It had some things going for it. You just don't get time to make even the more forgivable rookie mistakes. The people I worked with were smart people, but by the time they'd fixed some of the early wrinkles, the place was on its last legs. I left at the end of my month and it went out of business a few months later.

Nobody wins.
 

eqb

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Apparently I accidentally deleted my previous comment...

He's a senior in college, with no experience at all in publishing. He has no other staff. He doesn't want to hear anything about how he might do better.

Avoid, avoid, avoid.
 

Harlequin

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Now seeking "beta readers"

IMG_20171125_183448_842.jpg


IMG_20171125_183757_009_1.jpg
 

eqb

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In case anyone was still considering Gator House, here are Robert's answers to my questions about his company. As you can see, he has zero experience in publishing, and when I asked for a few clarifications, he said he's answered enough.

Avoid, avoid, avoid.

1. What is your background in publishing? Have you ever worked for another publisher? If you have, what kind of work did you do for them?

Just as indie publishing has opened up possibilities for authors, new technology has created opportunities for new publishers. There are still authors that will lack the technical skills to navigate all the steps for their book to be available to the public - editing, cover art, formatting, and promotion. Smaller houses will be able to take more risks and allow more authors to achieve their dreams of being published.

2. Are you planning to publish e-books only, or do you plan to publish print editions as well?

Print and Electronic books will both be published.

3. If you're planning on print editions, will you use POD or print runs? And do you have a distributor lined up?

Books will be available through POD for the duration of the contract. Each contract is different based on what is best for the author.

We will run printed books as needed for book signings and other events set up by ourselves on behalf of the author. Also we will supply materials for events the author chooses to attend if asked prior to event.

4. What kind of royalty rates (in general terms) will you offer, and are you calculating royalties on cover price or on net? (And if net, how do you define that?)

Royalties are paid off Gross Revenue/Gross Profits(I use these words interchangeably). In some cases if the author has prior publications and a solid following of readers then the contract will have stipulations for them to receive a percentage of the sticker price for a set number of books sold.

How we determine the net is discussed with the authors who are under contract.

5. What rights are you asking for?

A standard contract ask for First American Rights and First Electronic Rights. Again based on the author and book these can change.

6. Could you briefly tell me how the typical editing process goes at Gator House? Do you have editors, copyeditors, and proofreaders?

The manuscript is read and determined if it would be a good fit for our company.
It then goes through three rounds of editing. Each round offers a different type of editing if needed. Additional editing will be provided as needed. We feel three rounds on an already polished manuscript will produce a good quality book. I don't want to go into specifics of our staff at this time.

7. What kind of marketing and promotion will you do for your authors?

Marketing and promotional materials will be created on behalf of the author. Again, specifics are based on the book being published.
 

eqb

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I shouldn't be surprised that he's blocked me on Twitter and on Facebook. I'm sure he truly means well, but he refuses to admit that he might have more to learn. It's all about him and his dream, not about his authors.
 

frimble3

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I don't want to go into specifics of our staff at this time.
Why does this sound like 'I don't have any staff'? Or any worth mentioning?
There are still authors that will lack the technical skills to navigate all the steps for their book to be available to the public - editing, cover art, formatting, and promotion.
And wouldn't those authors be better off hiring someone to do these things as separate work-for-hire jobs, done by people who know what they're doing, rather than tying their books to a would-be 'publisher' with no experience or ability?
 

eqb

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He already admitted to me earlier that he's using freelancers for staff, so yeah. And since he's a senior in college, I can't imagine he has the time to do a decent job of editing and marketing, even if he had the skills and experience.
 

VeryBigBeard

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If he's still using gross revenue and gross profit interchangeably in contracts he might, uh, want to talk to a lawyer.

Or his business prof.
 

eqb

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One of my follow-up questions was did he have input from a lawyer or another established publisher for his boilerplate contract.

Suddenly he had no more time for our conversation.
 

VeryBigBeard

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You know, I bet he sees the word lawyer and immediately assumes the uncharitable. Which is a pity, and another base rookie error. Lawyers are an essential part of any company, particularly start-ups. I've been lucky with a number of start-ups I've been involved in to have lawyers available for at least consultation, and sometimes mentorship. It's invaluable just for getting basic partnership agreements right--I wouldn't even breathe the same air as a start-up that didn't have one. "But we're all friends/family here!" Things come up, even in the best situation. It's not even about protecting authors--who should have any contract read by an agent or publishing lawyer--but rather protecting the company itself from being bankrupted by legal bills when (not if) the inevitable misunderstanding occurs.

Lawyers are your friend in business. Pay the lawyers. They will make you the money back ten times over.
 

eqb

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And because I am picky about these matters, I visited Gator House's newly revamped website (http://www.gatorhousepublishing.com). They have yet to post any information about the staff, for obvious reasons, but they have added submission guidelines. And, um, no. Not a good sign.

Here are a couple red flags.

Manuscripts should be previously edited and in its final state

Aside from the grammatical error, this implies they don't want to spend money on editing. But later on that same page, they say:

All manuscripts are subject to editing.

So which is it? The really worrisome point, however, is this:

When manuscripts are accepted for publication, authors are generally offered a royalty contract, according to the type of work and chosen market.

If they aren't offering royalties, what are they offering?

There's a lot more about that page and the rest of the site that makes my eyes cross, but these are the ones that really stand out.