Girl fending off rape attack.

aruna

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[FONT=&quot]Scenario: A young, pretty girl is accosted in a lonely place -- no other person for miles around -- by a paunchy unfit middle-aged man. She knows the man; he has been "after her" for months.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When they meet in this lonely place he first grabs both her arms. She struggles but he's holding her tightly. She's squirming. He lets go of one arm and rips her bodice (this is in the 1930's) she's wearing a cotton dress over a camisole) exposing her breast, grabs her arm again while she continues to scream and struggle. He tries to manoevre her to the ground to rape her.

Possibilities:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]She manages to knee him hard in the balls and run away while he is doubled over in pain.
She has a hatpin and scratches him in the face/eyes with it.
She punches his adams apple.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I'm not sure if this scenario is possible as described; what would work best from a physical pov. If he lets go of one arm to tear at her dress maybe she would lash out and scratch his face. How would he grab her arm again? How can we make this work? I need to have it being a serious attack and fight, bodice rip etc, and her finally escaping before serious harm is done.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I need it to be plausible. Can you help?[/FONT]
 

Brightdreamer

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Not sure I have an answer - a lot depends on how you, as a writer, choreograph the scene to create the desired result (which, I'm assuming, is a breakaway by the girl, possibly with some manner of physical evidence of the assault, bruising or scratch marks or torn clothes, left on the man.) It's also possible to use your writerly magic to gloss over specific details of the struggle, making them a blur of grabs and kicks and scratches and torn clothes until she breaks away.

Do you have a friend with whom you could act out the scenario? (Not the violent bits, of course, but the movements.) It might help you get a feel for the "flow" of the struggle.
 

aruna

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Thanks for that. I don't really have a friend; I'm just wondering how men DO it at all. They're holding the girl's arms, and they want to wrestle her to the ground and tear off her clothes... I just can't visualise the technique.
 

cornflake

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[FONT="]Scenario: A young, pretty girl is accosted in a lonely place -- no other person for miles around -- by a paunchy unfit middle-aged man. She knows the man; he has been "after her" for months.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#272A34][FONT="] [/FONT]

[FONT="]When they meet in this lonely place he first grabs both her arms. She struggles but he's holding her tightly. She's squirming. He lets go of one arm and rips her bodice (this is in the 1930's) she's wearing a cotton dress over a camisole) exposing her breast, grabs her arm again while she continues to scream and struggle. He tries to manoevre her to the ground to rape her.

Possibilities:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#272A34][FONT="]She manages to knee him hard in the balls and run away while he is doubled over in pain.
She has a hatpin and scratches him in the face/eyes with it.
She punches his adams apple.[/FONT]

[FONT="] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#272A34][FONT="]I'm not sure if this scenario is possible as described; what would work best from a physical pov. If he lets go of one arm to tear at her dress maybe she would lash out and scratch his face. How would he grab her arm again? How can we make this work? I need to have it being a serious attack and fight, bodice rip etc, and her finally escaping before serious harm is done.[/FONT]

[FONT="]I need it to be plausible. Can you help?[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="aruna, post: 10190069, member: 2349"]Thanks for that. I don't really have a friend; I'm just wondering how men DO it at all. They're holding the girl's arms, and they want to wrestle her to the ground and tear off her clothes... I just can't visualise the technique.


This all, all, all depends on a whole slew of factors, obviously, including the victim's response (some people go still, some people thrash, some are coordinated fighters -- it's just the presence of mind/any training/the particular chemical flood into the bloodstream/assessment of risk/level of surprise (noticing a minute ago there was someone behind you is different than being taken entirely by surprise), etc. and the attacker's -- how prepared is the person to do this, how comfortable, how comfortable with controlling someone, how willing to do damage in the name of getting whatever it is they're after, how agile, how experienced, how risk-averse (if a victim's response is to go rigid and just scream at the top of her lungs, some attackers will just drop a person and run, some will stuff something in a mouth [especially if they've brought something for that potentiality], some will threaten [shut up or I'll...], some will just snap someone's neck. Entirely depends.

That said, you have a lot of leeway, but part depends on who they are. If he's fairly calm and experienced, he'd probably not stay either head on, or standing, for long. He might try to hold both wrists in one hand, or pivot her to the ground, or just throw her, which will shock most people/knock the wind out of them, long enough to get down and get back in control of them. If he's smart, he'd spin her around, or grab her from behind originally. It's the best way to control someone in that situation; from the front is far more problematic for a lot of reasons.

If he grabs her from behind, say, and wraps one arm around her arms, pinning them, or puts a forearm around her throat while he rips her dress (most people will immediately put both hands up to try to pry something off their throat, and a forearm is hard to move, so it buys him time and freedom with his other hand), she's then going to be struggling and trying to breathe freely.

The kneeing in the groin thing is not so productive -- it's a harder move than you'd think, to a harder target, and affected by height, proximity, etc. It's one of those things people say but don't do. Kicking is a much better move.

However, if he's got her from behind, is she wearing shoes with any heel at all? Her best bet is to stomp the fuck out of his feet, with the heel(s), and try to kick backwards into his shins as hard and much as possible. You hit right once, especially the shin, he'll likely loosen the grip to either try to move her away or grab his leg. Either one she can stomp his foot again and run. He's probably got scratches all over his forearm and she might have bruising on her neck, jaw, arms....
 

Roxxsmom

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For some assailants, any show of physical resistance is enough to get them to back off and find an easier victim. This may be less true of one who has picked out/stalked/harassed his victim in advance because of an obsession or vendetta.

I remember learning at one of those rape prevention seminars we had to go to back in college that fighting withing the first few seconds of an assault tended to yield the best results, but many victims freeze up initially in panic or disbelief. I don't know if there's research that backs this up. If it's true, though, it might make sense that your character would struggle right off the bat. If she's been stalked by this guy for some time, she might be more prepared for him to attack her and less likely to wonder what the hell is happening, or to not believe it's serious at first, if he grabs her.

Eyes and knees are vulnerable points on the human body. There are also ways to break a chokehold, though those take some training and practice and are unlikely to happen by luck alone.
 
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Alsikepike

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If I remember correctly, most women's self-defense classes illustrate what the stages of sexual assault often look like. You might want to check with them before you take too much of what I say seriously, as I've only heard it from someone else who has taken the classes. But anyway, according to them, most men's strategy is to tire their victim out and get them to give up and submit. In other words, they play the long game. This typically involves a lot of bearhugging, sleeper holds, full nelsons, pretty much any hold that is really difficult and exhausting to break. They usually keep their victims pinned down for a while before going about their, "buisiness," as they typically want to make sure they have complete control of the situation. That's about all I can give you on the subject. Like I said before, look into some women's self-defense articles and videos, it's probably a good place to learn more.
 

Jack Judah

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I'm no expert at self defense, but I wouldn't recommend having her go for the nuts if the guy already has a close hold on her. While she might land a kick to the groin it's a terrible gamble for someone in her position to take. She has a chance against a stronger opponent as long as she stays on her feet. Once she goes down, her odds aren't good. When she raises her leg to kick him, she'll be off-balance, and if he's even a slightly experienced brawler, he'll be able to block it and sweep her other leg out from under her.

I'd say her best bet is to crack him in the kisser with a headbutt. It would work whether she's facing him or not, and it would definitely make an impression. While he's dealing with blurred vision and the searing pain in his nose, he'll loosen his grip. That's when she should get him with an elbow to the gut or a heel to the yaetzes and run like hell for parts more populated.
 
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Beanie5

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Head but to nose effective ( does not need strength or free arm, can feign acquiesence to get near. )
Alternate bite then kick to the nuts.
 

Cyia

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Bite him. Scratch him. A fluke elbow to the solar plexus is as effective as a groin kick, sometimes more so. And gross as it sounds, once down, peeing can be the most effective defense. The guy would be shocked, especially in the 30's. He'd recoil up and she could clip his face/chin/throat with a pointy boot.
 

cornflake

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A headbutt only works if you can reach.
 

Beanie5

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If she happens to be wearing stilletos she could put a hole in his foot.
 

Jack Judah

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A headbutt only works if you can reach.

True. But unless she's freakishly short or the rapist is quite tall, if he's close enough to have her arms pinned, he's close enough to make a headbutt worth a shot.
 
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aruna

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Wow, thanks everyone! There are some wonderful ideas here and I'm going to be working on this today. Maybe I'll post the scene once it's finished. Again, thanks.
 

cornflake

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True. But unless she's freakishly short or the rapist is quite tall, if he's close enough to have her arms pinned, he's close enough to make a headbutt worth a shot.

The differential between avg. man and woman in the U.S. today is nearly 6". I don't know what it was then, but unless it was much closer, that makes it very hard to be able to do anything like that, especially with any momentum if you're clutched; even if two people were standing flat-footed and one wasn't struggling to move away, which usually makes someone go low.

Someone might try it but unless she's tall and/or he's not, it's not likely to do much but piss someone off and/or get him to grab her head/neck.
 

Jack Judah

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The differential between avg. man and woman in the U.S. today is nearly 6". I don't know what it was then, but unless it was much closer, that makes it very hard to be able to do anything like that,.

Keep in mind, this is the 1930s. She's almost definitely wearing heels. Which, if the rapist is of average height, would have pretty much nullified the difference. You don't need to be exactly the same height for a headbutt to work. Or particularly strong. Just desperate.

Ultimately, though, we're both arguing over the shape of clouds unless we get more specifics from Aruna.
 
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cornflake

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I don't think 6" heels were even a thing in the '30s, or close. I think it was more like 1 or 2" , but yes, she can write whatever she chooses.
 

Jack Judah

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I don't think 6" heels were even a thing in the '30s, or close. I think it was more like 1 or 2".

That didn't even occur to me. Looks like you were right. 2.5 appears to be where they topped out back then. That still narrows the differential by half. Which means the likelihood of their heights working out isn't at all outside the realm of possibility.
 
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M Louise

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Out here in South Africa with our appalling rape statistics, self-defence for women is concerned with not just preventing rape but helping the woman survive the attack. Many rapists do not intend to leave their victims alive.

If attacked, a woman needs to hurt and disable the would-be rapist before he knocks her to the ground and uses his body weight to keep her down. If she has considered these moves before, she will be ready to carry them out but they are not easy. And the first thing a woman needs to know is whether or not her attacker is armed because she should not fight him for possession of a weapon (a gun or knife). That is too dangerous.

She needs to kick off her heels so she can run as soon as she has a chance to do so.

She should press both her thumbs hard into his eyes and try to blind him temporarily. (If she has a hatpin, she should try to pierce his eye and push the pin right in hard.) If he blocks her from reaching his eyes, she should force her fingers up into his nostrils and hook them to cause a severe blood flow.

Then, while he is reaching for his eyes or nose, she should knee him (not using a foot which could throw her off-balance) hard in the groin and then run. Head-butting isn't recommended because of the risk of concussion which might prevent the woman getting away fast. Local Rape Crisis counsellors and police point out that certain defensive strategies are not instinctive for women: we tend to bite or scratch, claw at opponents, kick out. That will be what a rapist is expecting rather than head-butting or punches or a hard knee in the groin, or thumbs in the eyeballs.


In South Africa, women and children are warned that it is unlikely they are the first victim. Often the rapist has done this before and has a practised routine to get the woman down and pinioned, before tearing off her clothes and raping her. He may not be driven by lust (the desire to see her naked) so much as by the desire to control and humiliate her, force her to give in to him. If he knows her screams will not be heard, he won't put his hand over her mouth.

Would an experienced rapist try to tear off her sleeve or top before he had subdued her? He might do it if he is inexperienced.

In the 1930s, I think women knew enough about rape to understand the danger but I don't know they would know much about self-defence tactics.
 
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Niniva

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Just my two cents with no real support: I'm voting hatpin. She'd think of the hatpin if it were in the news recently trying to ban them as weapons. Though that might have been decades earlier.
 

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Since the man has been after her for months, she would be on-guard and wary. It would be completely believable for her to be carrying something for self-defence--a big pair of metal scissors from the sewing room would do nicely, especially if the central pin has been removed to split it into two blades. A giant scissor-blade approaching his eyes will scare the life out of the guy.

Also: heels to his feet and insole, definitely, and she'd hit any known weak-points the paunchy middle-aged man would have such as bad knees and weak ankles.
 

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Apparently, a well directed kick to a knee is extremely effective in incapacitating an attacker. Perhaps followed up with a finger aimed at one of the assailant's eyes.

I am getting this from fiction sources, so be wary, but it's from an author I trust to have done his homework.

If it is unfeasible for your protagonist to be that clued up about self-defence, then maybe she aimed a kick at his testicles and struck his knee instead?
 

aruna

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Apparently, a well directed kick to a knee is extremely effective in incapacitating an attacker. Perhaps followed up with a finger aimed at one of the assailant's eyes.

I am getting this from fiction sources, so be wary, but it's from an author I trust to have done his homework.

If it is unfeasible for your protagonist to be that clued up about self-defence, then maybe she aimed a kick at his testicles and struck his knee instead?


This is why I like the hatpin option more and more. She would have been wearing a har against the sun, and she would surely have read about the mashers. So, while she is struggling, she could be desperately thinking about removing the hatpin to attack him and as soon as she gets the chance does so.

The man to date has been after her more in the sense of making unsavoury propositions; she has never regarded him as physically dangerous before, and certainly wasn't expecting him toturn up on this occasion.

- - - Updated - - -

Just my two cents with no real support: I'm voting hatpin. She'd think of the hatpin if it were in the news recently trying to ban them as weapons. Though that might have been decades earlier.

Yeah! Hatpin!
 

Bufty

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Get a head butt wrong and she stands a good chance of incapacitating herself. Fingers (or hatpin) in the eyes sound a better risk to me. Maybe hat knocked off but in reach. But if her arms are pinned that's not a choice. And once she hits the ground her choices are extremely limited. I wonder if submission is her answer with readiness to seize whatever opportunity presents itself. Really hard to comment on this scenario and I suspect it will form itself as you write - based on your knowledge of the characters. Good luck.
 
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cornflake

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She can try kicking back into his shins with her heels (like her own heels, the back edges of her feet/shoes) -- it's very plausible if he pulls her in from behind, which is the most likely move unless he's an utter moron, and can really hurt. If she nails him good once, he loosens his grip and she reaches for her hatpin. I'd personally not make it one move, like he grabs her and she goes for the hatpin, because, well, no fun, and because it's not that likely unless you're well-prepared and experienced.