Horse behavior

JNG01

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There's a scenario in my MS where the MC is riding a horse across a floating bridge at night. Think of a bunch of pontoons tied end to end across a moderately fast river. Now, instead of pontoons, image narrow planks using barrels for floats. The thing shifts and moves in the current, and the planks dip under the water with the horse's weight (some of them only an inch or two, others nearly a foot).

The horse is a mare, calm temperament, difficult to spook, and well trained to the saddle. But she really, really doesn't like being on the bridge. At a couple of points, she balks and the MC has to put his heels to her pretty firmly to get her to move forward. At a couple of others, a hoof slips off a plank and she has to scramble for purchase.

What kind of behaviors, mannerisms, vocalizations, tics, etc. would you expect to see or could you realistically envision from a horse in this situation?
 

Cyia

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You wouldn't ride a horse in these circumstances. You would - at most, and very foolishly - try to lead them across with their head covered. Definitely not at night. Definitely not through fast water.

One hoof "slips" in this scenario and your novel's just ended.
 

JNG01

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You wouldn't ride a horse in these circumstances. You would - at most, and very foolishly - try to lead them across with their head covered. Definitely not at night. Definitely not through fast water.

One hoof "slips" in this scenario and your novel's just ended.

Clearly. The MC does it anyway, and, miraculously, the novel doesn't end right there. So what would you expect of the horse? Balking? Ears flattening? Head tossing? Snorting? Other stuff?
 

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The MC is a jackass and deserves to get dumped on his ass in the water.

If he's isn't a total jackass and too stupid to be trusted with a horse, he will dismount before the bridge and walk the horse across it.
 
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Cyia

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Clearly. The MC does it anyway, and, miraculously, the novel doesn't end right there. So what would you expect of the horse? Balking? Ears flattening? Head tossing? Snorting? Other stuff?

Dead horse. Dead rider.

You're in the dark, on a swift river, and your horse slips. YOU ARE DEAD.
 

buz

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The horse would snort/blow at the bridge/water before stepping on, ears ahead, eyes wide. It would shy backwards, probably, high-stepping it in reverse, or sideways. If made to step on, more shying, attempting to bolt--then the dead part, I imagine.
 

JNG01

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Dead horse. Dead rider.

You're in the dark, on a swift river, and your horse slips. YOU ARE DEAD.

This is a work of fiction, so both the MC and the horse make it across. I'm not asking about the advisability of riding a horse across a rickety floating bridge. I'm asking how the horse would look, act, sound, etc. if ridden across a rickety floating bridge. Any insight on those points would be appreciated.
 
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JNG01

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The horse would snort/blow at the bridge/water before stepping on, ears ahead, eyes wide. It would shy backwards, probably, high-stepping it in reverse, or sideways. If made to step on, more shying, attempting to bolt--then the dead part, I imagine.

That's really helpful--thank you. If the horse shies and tries to bolt, how would the rider try to bring it back under control (putting aside the rickety-bridge aspect for a moment--just in a vacuum).
 

Cyia

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This is a work of fiction, so both the MC and the horse make it across.

This is a research thread. No they wouldn't. Not logically. Not in practice. You're asking for people who know how a horse would react to explain to you how a horse would never act, which is why we're trying to tell you that your scenario isn't going to fly. Fiction or not.


I'm not asking about the advisability of riding a horse across a rickety floating bridge.

Not advised. Likely not even possible. Horses, even seasoned ones, are *extremely* skittish about their legs and hooves. This is why they rear if a snake comes into their path. Depending on the breed and height of the person in question, they'll rear if you come near their legs.

I'm asking how the horse would look, act, sound, etc. if ridden across a rickety floating bridge.

And again, it would act dead. You DON'T ride a horse in these circumstances. If you absolutely have to cross , you cover its head with a shirt or a blanket to keep it from being able to see and hear what's happening, but it's still going to go nuts as soon as it gets its feet wet. And it would get wet because you'd have to lead it through the water - not over the bridge. The water, assuming its deep enough to float your bridge, would restrict the horse's movements, but you don't want it so deep that it would sweep the animal away.

Horses need even ground. They will not voluntarily cross something that's bobbing in the water and they will not maintain balance if a hoof slips into the water like you've described. Trying to force it to do so is going to result in the horse falling because it will fight its handler, kick, bite - you name it, and the horse will win.

Your scenario is not plausible as written.
 

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That's really helpful--thank you. If the horse shies and tries to bolt, how would the rider try to bring it back under control (putting aside the rickety-bridge aspect for a moment--just in a vacuum).

Consider this: it's an unstable bridge. It's going to be wet, slick, even. Not good traction for a four-footed animal on a moving surface, at night. If the rider is stupid enough to do that, he isn't going to be a good enough rider to manage the horse.

I'd expect some crow hops, some sidling, and flat ears, with wide eyes, and attempts to Move Away from the dangerous moving floaty thing.

There's a reason water crossings and bridges like that often have signs saying Walk your horse.

Possible outcomes include him and/or the horse in the water, or a horse that's badly injured. Horse legs are surprisingly fragile, because they're designed to all four be weight-bearing. If two or three are weight-bearing, under unstable conditions, bad things happen. Like hoofs being caught between slats. Like legs sliding out from under. Like broken legs and or ankles.

A rider good enough to manage a horse in those conditions isn't stupid enough to risk having to.
 
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buz

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That's really helpful--thank you. If the horse shies and tries to bolt, how would the rider try to bring it back under control (putting aside the rickety-bridge aspect for a moment--just in a vacuum).

A panicked horse is difficult to bring back under control; you mostly hang on if you can and wait for it to stop, in my experience, which is why others are telling you this wouldn't really play out realistically ;) Horses also, in panic mode, do not have much of a sense of self-preservation...so, bolting/shying off the bridge or getting a leg stuck is quite likely.

If the horse is still reachable--meaning, their brain has not switched into complete panic mode yet--you can exert some control with leg pressure (to move forward, or to either side) and rein pressure (to stop, or to either side) if the horse is well trained. Even so, though, I wouldn't really expect the horse to proceed sure-footed in a straight line in this situation; they often go sideways or back if faced with something terrifying. And once they're well afraid...the logic brain generally kind of shuts off and they go into full flight mode.

If I absolutely had to cross a bridge like this with a horse, I would do it dismounted. But, as everyone else is saying, this is still something that is not a smart thing to do if you have *any* other options.
 
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JNG01

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This is a research thread. No they wouldn't. Not logically. Not in practice. You're asking for people who know how a horse would react to explain to you how a horse would never act, which is why we're trying to tell you that your scenario isn't going to fly. Fiction or not.


Not advised. Likely not even possible. Horses, even seasoned ones, are *extremely* skittish about their legs and hooves. This is why they rear if a snake comes into their path. Depending on the breed and height of the person in question, they'll rear if you come near their legs.


And again, it would act dead. You DON'T ride a horse in these circumstances. If you absolutely have to cross , you cover its head with a shirt or a blanket to keep it from being able to see and hear what's happening, but it's still going to go nuts as soon as it gets its feet wet. And it would get wet because you'd have to lead it through the water - not over the bridge. The water, assuming its deep enough to float your bridge, would restrict the horse's movements, but you don't want it so deep that it would sweep the animal away.

Horses need even ground. They will not voluntarily cross something that's bobbing in the water and they will not maintain balance if a hoof slips into the water like you've described. Trying to force it to do so is going to result in the horse falling because it will fight its handler, kick, bite - you name it, and the horse will win.

Your scenario is not plausible as written.

I understand that you find the scenario very implausible. That's fine, and I appreciate that information, and I have no doubt that you're correct about that. But implausible or not, the horse walks the bridge and makes it to the other side. I started this thread to learn more about how horses act under stress when made to walk places they really don't want to walk. I understand what you're saying--that a horse almost certainly wouldn't comply in the circumstances I described. Fine. But, if a horse did comply, what stress signs would it be expected to show?

Second, new, question based on this input--does the scenario become more plausible, from your perspective, if the bridge is made wider and sits higher in the water? There would still be some lateral drift of the planks in the current in this version, but no wet hooves and no slipping off the sides.
 
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Cyia

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One last try.

You are asking for information that doesn't exist given the scenario as written.

How would a bull react while running a horse race against an antelope? You might be able to guess, but there's no actual information for this because it's not a situation anyone familiar with the animals would put them into.

Maybe the better question is "WHY" does your horse have to cross the bridge with a mounted rider? Why can't its rider do the more cautious thing and lead it across? It's not slower to lead the animal; it's going to be faster and make it more likely to succeed.

- - - Updated - - -

One last try.

You are asking for information that doesn't exist given the scenario as written.

How would a bull react while running a horse race against an antelope? You might be able to guess, but there's no actual information for this because it's not a situation anyone familiar with the animals would put them into.

Maybe the better question is "WHY" does your horse have to cross the bridge with a mounted rider? Why can't its rider do the more cautious thing and lead it across? It's not slower to lead the animal; it's going to be faster and make it more likely to succeed.
 

JNG01

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Consider this: it's an unstable bridge. It's going to be wet, slick, even. Not good traction for a four-footed animal on a moving surface, at night. If the rider is stupid enough to do that, he isn't going to be a good enough rider to manage the horse.

I'd expect some crow hops, some sidling, and flat ears, with wide eyes, and attempts to Move Away from the dangerous moving floaty thing.

There's a reason water crossings and bridges like that often have signs saying Walk your

Possible outcomes include him and/or the horse in the water, or a horse that's badly injured. Horse legs are surprisingly fragile, because they're designed to all four be weight-bearing. If two or three are weight-bearing, under unstable conditions, bad things happen. Like hoofs being caught between slats. Like legs sliding out from under. Like broken legs and or ankles. There's a reason water crossings and bridges have warnings that say Walk your horse.

A rider good enough to manage a horse in those conditions isn't stupid enough to risk having to.

Well, the MC isn't given a choice. He's ordered to ride across the bridge by a superior who is trying to get him killed. I'm aiming for a river crossing that is likely--but not certain--to result in the MC's death. Can you help me hit that mark? What would that look like in your mind?
 

buz

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Well, the MC isn't given a choice. He's ordered to ride across the bridge by a superior who is trying to get him killed. I'm aiming for a river crossing that is likely--but not certain--to result in the MC's death. Can you help me hit that mark? What would that look like in your mind?

Does the superior say he *has* to ride across that bridge? What's the wording of the order, exactly?
 

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There's a scenario in my MS where the MC is riding a horse across a floating bridge at night. Think of a bunch of pontoons tied end to end across a moderately fast river. Now, instead of pontoons, image narrow planks using barrels for floats. The thing shifts and moves in the current, and the planks dip under the water with the horse's weight (some of them only an inch or two, others nearly a foot).

The horse is a mare, calm temperament, difficult to spook, and well trained to the saddle. But she really, really doesn't like being on the bridge. At a couple of points, she balks and the MC has to put his heels to her pretty firmly to get her to move forward. At a couple of others, a hoof slips off a plank and she has to scramble for purchase.

What kind of behaviors, mannerisms, vocalizations, tics, etc. would you expect to see or could you realistically envision from a horse in this situation?
I had a summer job at a horse-training facility many years ago, so I've seen fear reactions in horses. Let's see if I can help you out. There was one incident with my own horse (mare/calm temperament, like your scenario) when I was riding across a field and we came upon a leaking gasket on a main irrigation line. It hissed quite loudly and sprayed water, and my horse stopped short and got very still. At this point I thought it wise to dismount, and did so, because every muscle in my horse was tense; it was like sitting on top of a potential explosion. She focussed face-forward on the threat, and her head was bent so her nose was more than a right angle to the ground (angled a bit more towards her knees). Her neck was VERY arched (and she had a pretty straight neck), and her ears were stiff and pointing forward. Her nostrils were flared and she let out a series of hard blows. I patted her and talked to her and led her away from the threat. She didn't side-step or spook (which also would have been normal reactions), but she walked pretty stiff-legged and was trembling. Hope that helps a bit.
 

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Does the superior say he *has* to ride across that bridge? What's the wording of the order, exactly?

The riding part is direct and explicit. MC tries to dismount and test the bridge on foot; superior orders him to ride across. MC starts to lead the horse across; superior orders him to ride across.

The sweet spot is a crossing that is likely, but not certain, to be fatal. It's looking like I should make the planks wider--maybe five or six feet wide--and float them higher in the water so that the horse is dry most of the way across, but every now and then is surprised when a plank dips and wets her hooves. Any thoughts on that? Or other suggestions to hit the sweet spot I'm looking for?
 

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This is like 'but he's ordered to get the dog to use a fork and spoon, so how would a dog do that?'

If you're making up a scenario that doesn't happen, you can make up whatever you like, because the scenario doesn't happen irl. I can't picture a horse willingly stepping on something that unstable more than one step, especially over water, personally, but ....
 

buz

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The riding part is direct and explicit. MC tries to dismount and test the bridge on foot; superior orders him to ride across. MC starts to lead the horse across; superior orders him to ride across.

The sweet spot is a crossing that is likely, but not certain, to be fatal. It's looking like I should make the planks wider--maybe five or six feet wide--and float them higher in the water so that the horse is dry most of the way across, but every now and then is surprised when a plank dips and wets her hooves. Any thoughts on that? Or other suggestions to hit the sweet spot I'm looking for?

If they float higher in the water, are they bouncier? ;) Could you make them heavier/more stable...?

Wider might give you a bit of leeway for prancing/crow hopping etc, but getting it all the way across like that is kind of a stretch. It's still unlikely, but if you really need it to happen, well... prancing and shying in a very tight space without falling over the edge/getting a foot caught would be unrealistically lucky, but I guess you could put it in there. Or maybe make it a bit more bombproof? Swap out the mare for an ancient pony? :p (Course the ancient pony might throw him just for funsies)

How fast is the water...could they both fall off and swim across ;)

Or the horse could just bolt right at the outset and trample the superior. Yay!

I'm not very helpful, am I :p
 
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Cyia

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Well, the MC isn't given a choice. He's ordered to ride across the bridge by a superior who is trying to get him killed. I'm aiming for a river crossing that is likely--but not certain--to result in the MC's death. Can you help me hit that mark? What would that look like in your mind?

Okay.

Is there any way for the superior to actually see what's going on if this is at night? What color is the horse? Easily seen or not? Is the horse carrying a lot of tack?

Your best scenario might be for the person on the bridge to actually have the horse attempt to step on, then knock him into the water. The rider will have a much better chance of survival without his horse.

Or, he could have the horse step *into* the river, like he's going to have it step onto the bridge and feign slipping into the water himself while keeping hold of the reins.

It's not plausible, but it's possible.

Another survival scenario would be to let the horse go wild. Try and get the horse on the bridge, and when it refuses, let it buck, jerk, bite, whatever, which could incite the other horses to act the same way and unseat the commander, giving your rider a chance to cross without threat.

Is there any reason it has to be a bobbing bridge and not a ferry platform with a rope guide?
 
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JNG01

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Okay.


Is there any reason it has to be a bobbing bridge and not a ferry platform with a rope guide?

Yes, it has to be a bridge. There's other, unrelated plot significance to there being a crude bridge in that spot.
 

Cyia

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Okay. I'm trying to make this more plausible.

Does the bridge have guidelines on either side, or overhead? If it's made of floating barrels, something has to be keeping them together in the current. What's stabilizing them?
 

JNG01

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Okay. I'm trying to make this more plausible.

Does the bridge have guidelines on either side, or overhead? If it's made of floating barrels, something has to be keeping them together in the current. What's stabilizing them?

It's made of wood planks tied end to end. The barrels are underneath, helping the planks float. The planks could be anywhere from 2 feet to probably 6 or 7 feet (at the outside) wide. It doesn't have guidelines in its current imagined form, but it could (they would have to be crude). The guidelines, if you think guidelines would help, would have to be attached to posts or rails driven into the planks, since there isn't anything on the banks tall enough to anchor them to..