London Trains - 1940

Jennimrose

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I'm looking for any information on the London/Northern England rail system in 1940. I'm looking at PRE-Blitz era.

My MC moves from Central London toward Cambridge. I wonder what line she would have ridden then and what the stations would have been. At what point do the trains move from underground to above-ground when traveling distances?

Any help is appreciated. I've visited most of the rail museum sites and historical archives but I can't seem to find a map that dates back that far that I can access. I also emailed two museums but have heard nothing back at this point.

Thank you for any information you may have.

Thanks!
 

lonestarlibrarian

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Still looking, but I came across an interesting debate in the House of Commons in 1947 (postwar) London about the LNER (London and North Eastern Railway Company) Passenger Service. They're discussing how there is no convenient commuter train that will leave Cambridge at a reasonable hour, get you to London around 9 a.m., let a person perform their day's activities, leave London around 6, and then get back to Cambridge at a reasonable time. In this postwar schedule, you have a 7.47 leaving Cambridge that is due in London at 9.44, but has a bad habit of not making it until after 10 a.m. There's a 5.49 p.m. from London that's due in Cambridge at 7.25 p.m., but is lucky to get there before 8--- and frequently, long after.

They go on to suggest revising the schedules between Liverpool Street to Bishop's Stortford, so that a good pace can be kept up for Bishop's Stortford via Audley End to Cambridge, because they're in a habit of trying to run a fast train behind a slow train, which has the predictable result of two or three slow trains.

It has the added benefit of putting forth very frank opinions about timing; the quality of the coaches themselves; anecdotes about how even a stagecoach could beat the train on the London/Bishop's Stortford run; and anecdotes about how the line ran in 1925, trying to get from Cambridge to London when I had this dinner party to attend, and it was supposed to arrive at 6.45 but it didn't arrive until 7.20, and when I went to complain to the management, they said it had never made it before 7.15.

So---- it sounds as if London-to-Cambridge and Cambridge-to-London, either prewar or postwar, has never been very speedy, or very reliable, and instead has been very tedious and frustrating if you are depending on it getting you somewhere by a certain time. But it's the bit between Liverpool Street and Bishop's Stortford that is considered responsible for the delays; Bishop's Stortford to Cambridge are perfectly fine, it seems. In postwar London, you run into locomotive servicing problems, coal shortages, and labor strikes that slow things down, but the scheduling itself has consistently been less than ideal, even in the days without service problems, coal shortages, or labor strikes. Perhaps you can find a LNER timetable from the correct period/geography somewhere, but that's the general color I'm finding.
 
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lonestarlibrarian

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Ahh, I see a recent thread where a researcher in the US was specifically asking about British passenger trains of WWII. You might read the thread, and see if there's anyone who has something worth sending a pm for additional information. Or, on the other hand, you might start your own thread in the LNER forum; it seems to have some good historians with some good resources.
 

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I'm looking for any information on the London/Northern England rail system in 1940. I'm looking at PRE-Blitz era.

The Blitz was 1940-41, I think, so you'll need to be careful with your dates here.

My MC moves from Central London toward Cambridge.

Cambridge is not northern England, it's eastern. It isn't considered northern here. It might be on a northern network now but that's only because it's served by trains heading north. It really isn't northern England.

I wonder what line she would have ridden then and what the stations would have been. At what point do the trains move from underground to above-ground when traveling distances?

The underground trains are part of the London transport system, and no trains on that system go to Cambridge. Your protagonist would have taken the tube or a bus to a mainline station, then got on a train to Cambridge. The tube network has some overlap with the train system, but it uses completely different lines and platforms, etc., at the stations.

It's relatively easy to find the extent of the tube system at any given time. I think Cambridge trains come into several different London stations: you can search for the possibilities here, but you will need to check which stations were available in your time period.

Any help is appreciated. I've visited most of the rail museum sites and historical archives but I can't seem to find a map that dates back that far that I can access. I also emailed two museums but have heard nothing back at this point.

Thank you for any information you may have.

Thanks!

If you want to get a good idea of how the stations were at that time, rather than specific information about routes and so on, you could watch Brief Encounter. It was made in the mid-1940s, I think, and features a lot of station scenes.

From your initial post it does seem to me that you need to do a lot more research about how our transport system works if you want to get this right.
 
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Jennimrose

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The Blitz was 1940-41, I think, so you'll need to be careful with your dates here.

Yes - Blitz began September 1940 and my story takes place May 1940, which is why I'm making sure to look for PRE-Blitz info as it will have changed afterwards.

My MC does not make it to Cambridge - she is just moving North out of the city in that general direction - not necessarily to the actual North of England. She is on a train for all of one chapter, but yes, I do want to get it right which is why I was asking how the city tube transfers to the country rail system and what that would have been like.

The link to the LNER site has been very informative. Thank you!
 

WriterDude

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She would have taken a mainline train from Liverpool Street I imagine, if trying to leave the city toward Cambridge, but the underground railway extends substantially in to the suburbs and surrounding countryside, for example, as far north as Watford. Where the line goes overground depends on the line she uses. She might have taken a tram or bus to main station. Depends on her start point I suppose.

Brief Encounter is an interesting window on that time, though it was filmed up north, in Carnforth.

You could ask the guys at rail forums UK, they have a nostalgia and history section and are always happy to help,

http://www.railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=160