Safety of eating raw meat

Alsikepike

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I know the title implies I have half a brain, but bear with me for a moment. I'm working on a story that involves an extended stay out in the wilderness during the winter. One of the characters is very used to surviving for extended periods of time, while the other considered livestock a rare sight growing up. I had the funny idea of the latter being mortified with the concept of the former eating raw meat straight out of a deer. I wanted to know, generally speaking, how safe it is.
I got the idea from a time when I went hunting with my Dad and his buddies. One of the guys got a deer, and we were there to help gut it and get it back to camp. When we were cleaning it, the guy cut free one of the backstraps and took a bite out of it! The deer wasn't even cold yet! Of course, everything I knew told me that eating raw meat is a terrible idea, but he just smiled and said, "Don't believe what you hear, take risks every once in awhile." It sounded interesting, but I wasn't going to accept it on the word of someone who I already knew wasn't playing with a full deck.
I did some research on the subject and found a few pieces of evidence to support the idea. A lot of it is about the cleanliness of the tools you use, freshness, and the skill of the butcher. But it never really talked about meat from a wild animal. At first, I assumed that there'd be a higher chance of parasites in wild meat, but then again, domesticated livestock would have more exposure to parasites with the conditions they're kept in.
The idea seems reasonable, but I don't want to get someone sick because they read my book and thought it was completely safe to eat raw meat. What do you guys think? Should I go for it?
 
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Bolero

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Well, it may be that in your book every character drives a car without crashing it - doesn't mean that one of your readers won't have a crash.

Other than that - not very knowledgeable but the fragments I do know include:

1. I thought sushi includes raw fish?

2. Wild animals can have parasites of all sorts including liver fluke and intestinal worms. With liver fluke what you do is not eat the liver.

3. Not sure why you think domesticated stock have more exposure to parasites "with the conditions they are kept in". Conditions in which animals are kept varies considerably from intensive barn rearing to upland grazing. In the UK, abbattoir have vets and other professionals on hand to inspect animals and meat and anything not fit for human consumption doesn't enter the food chain. Farm animals can be given drenches against fluke and worms - and those chemicals have withdrawal periods with regard to slaughter.
 

snafu1056

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I think location would be a factor. In some parts of the world, some wild animals still carry diseases like bubonic plague(!). But if it's just the USA, that's probably not a big worry.

I wonder if the CDC issues warnings about certain types of fish and game. Or maybe you should check the department of fish & game for the state your story is set in. Maybe they give advisories and warnings.
 

Alsikepike

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I should've been more specific about the conditions thing, I apologize for that. What I meant was that domestic animals are more often in close proximity to other members of their species for extended periods of time, increasing the chance they'd be exposed to parasites. Also, domesticated livestock has less genetic diversity, which means if one animal gets sick, their neighbors are more likely to be vulnerable to the disease as well. (Of course, antibiotics often mitigate this) I appreciate the insight, though, as I wasn't really considering the treatment domestic animals are given compared to wild ones.

Also, 50th post! Woo! Woo!
 
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Brightdreamer

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I had a deer-hunting great-uncle who regularly hunted for meat. He died after acquiring a rapid-onset form of dementia that some claim was Alzheimer's, but which had all the earmarks of Creutzeld-Jakob disease, which was known to exist in populations he hunted; we've always wondered...

If possible, I'd suggest doing some research with survivalists and other hunters. I know that people, especially survivalist people, do eat raw and undercooked meat, though I'd think that most of us would get sick because our guts wouldn't handle it as well. And, yes, parasites would definitely be an issue; anyone who tells you otherwise is ignoring hard facts. Some you could see the effects of and be able to avoid, others you couldn't. You might also run a Google search for "high meat" - lightly fermented/rotten meat - which was popular with many native populations and is a "thing" now with the more extreme Raw Paleo dieters.

I've read that cooked food actually has more value to us; part of the reason we were able to develop big brains, so researchers theorize, is that we started cooking our food, which requires less energy to chew and digest, allowing our ancestors to lose the massive guts many primates have and divert that energy elsewhere.
 

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AW Admin

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Deer are riddled with parasites; most people don't know where to look, or what they're seeing.

Fish are also parasite-laden.

Until fairly recently, most people were riddled with parasites, ranging from ticks, lice and bedbugs, including several "worm" varitities, and a wide variety of gut and organ parasites.
 

Cyia

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Fish are also parasite-laden.

You can probably google the horror stories of people who've tried to make homemade sushi without realizing that the variety served in restaurants is usually deeply frozen for a minimum number of days before preparation to kill the parasites. I can remember one account of a guy who decided to get fancy for dinner and try his slicing skills, only to end up in the ER a couple of weeks later with "appendicitis." Docs opened him up, and the appendix is fine. Then a giant worm-thing flops into view.
 

Siri Kirpal

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Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

My mother used to make raw kibbeh, which is a Lebanese specialty. She purchased the lean beef the same day she planned to make the dish. We ate it raw that day. The next day we cooked it and had what amounted to Lebanese style hamburgers. None of us was ever sick. But I always made the cooked variation...just to be on the safe side.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal, who is now a practicing vegetarian, almost a vegan
 

Alsikepike

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That's actually kinda funny, I have a Saudi friend who also pointed to kibbeh in response to my question. Only his family used lamb instead of beef. It's always fun to learn about family traditions, especially when it comes to food!
 
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cornflake

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I can't believe I'm answering this.

Yes, some things depend on cleanliness -- like e-coli transmission likelihood can be reduced if you're careful.

Some things though, do not. There's a documented problem with TSE/BSE/CWD in deer in the western US, though raw or cooked doesn't matter w/re BSE or the like.

Some parasites and infections are more likely in wild animals with no veterinary treatment, though there are things that are common in factory farming environments (I think something approaching 3/4 of chicken bought in the U.S. has salmonella?).

Cindy -- it's better for you and the animals!
 

Marian Perera

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I ate raw seal meat and raw beluga blubber when I lived in Iqaluit. The Inuit locals were eating those, so I chowed down too.

That said, I was warned not to eat raw walrus because that meat is typically buried for a couple of months to ripen it, which can lead to trichinosis.
 

Haggis

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Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

My mother used to make raw kibbeh, which is a Lebanese specialty. She purchased the lean beef the same day she planned to make the dish. We ate it raw that day. The next day we cooked it and had what amounted to Lebanese style hamburgers. None of us was ever sick. But I always made the cooked variation...just to be on the safe side.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal, who is now a practicing vegetarian, almost a vegan

I love kibbeh nayeh. With lamb.
 

TedTheewen

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Think I'm going vegan.

Me too. For a lot of reasons, not just how gross meat can be.

I'll say this--I've never chipped a tooth because of a bone in a veggie.

I've eaten raw meat. I've eaten meat that could have been cooked longer.

The sit-com Always Sunny in Philadelphia did an episode where they got worms from raccoon meat. It's the only episode of that show I've seen and it was pretty funny.

AW Admin is right that our bodies have shifted away from being able to eat stuff that is questionable. It's about how fast it processes. If you'll notice dogs and possums, they process stuff very quickly because meat sitting in a gut is bad news. Plus, I'm pretty sure the microbes we have in our systems are vastly different from what they had back then.
 

harmonyisarine

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The problem with eating raw meat is, as mentioned, the diseases and parasites. The more similar the animal is to your (or your characters, or the predator's) body, the easier those diseases and parasites can be contracted by the eat-ee. This is why sushi is generally safer than steak tartare; fewer parasites can make the fish-to-human jump, and most of those can be killed by a good, long freeze. Now, mammal meat can be perfectly safe to eat raw, there's just a greater range of potential infectants and I can't tell by looking if it's got any or not. Because of this, I don't eat raw mammal meat. I say this as a deer hunter who has a background in bio with a focus on invertebrate zoology--very parasite-heavy courses--but I'm not a medical expert so I might be a little off on my details (I cared less about how these things affect humans than in how they lived, so I might have slept through some details on "how not to be infected" XD).
 

MaeZe

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I think location would be a factor. In some parts of the world, some wild animals still carry diseases like bubonic plague(!). But if it's just the USA, that's probably not a big worry.

I wonder if the CDC issues warnings about certain types of fish and game. Or maybe you should check the department of fish & game for the state your story is set in. Maybe they give advisories and warnings.

Plague is endemic in ground squirrels and jack rabbits in the west mid-west in the US. It can also spread to cats and we see a couple cases a year in people with an occasional spike up to a dozen or more. If you get the right antibiotics soon enough you will be fine. You don't get it from eating meat, you get it from a flea bite from fleas on the game.

Animal and human plague cases and deaths in the United States, 2000 to 2015.

Pathogens in raw meat are specific to the species and the location/contamination of the meat.

For deer there are a couple pathogens to consider in raw meat in the US.

Deer Meat as the Source for a Sporadic Case of Escherichia coli O157:H7 Infection, Connecticut

Proper Field Dressing and Handling of Wild Game and Fish

Public health does not recommend eating raw deer meat, and you should also take care to wash your hands after dressing game. But it is not a common source of outbreaks, probably because eating raw deer meat isn't common.

As for the CJD or BSE, it's called CWD or chronic wasting disease in deer. There has been an outbreak spreading from animal to animal for years but we have yet to see any conclusive human cases associated with the deer version of prion disease. If we did, cooking would not be a solution. The prion proteins that cause the disease are not destroyed in normal cooking temperatures. They aren't even destroyed in normal sterilization procedures.

CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE, CERVID - USA (14): (TEXAS) (14) means the 14th report from TX. You can go through all the previous notices on ProMed by clicking on them at the bottom of the link.

The links won't copy but here are a few of the reports for examples. It looks like cases the EU and UK are being more frequently reported:
13 May 2017 BSE, bovine - Spain (02): (CB) atypical L-type, OIE
11 Mar 2017 BSE, bovine - Spain: (CL) atypical L-type, OIE
24 Jan 2017 BSE, bovine - Ireland (02): (GY) atypical L-type, OIE
19 Jan 2017 BSE, bovine - Ireland: (GY) atypical
10 Dec 2016 Prion disease update: Europe, BSE, bovine, scrapie, sheep & goat, 2015
29 Apr 2016 Prion disease: suspected plant protein representative
07 Oct 2015 BSE, bovine - UK (04): (Wales) classical, update
05 Oct 2015 BSE, bovine - UK (03): (Wales) classical, official update
04 Oct 2015 BSE, bovine - UK (02): (Wales) classical, conf
02 Oct 2015 BSE, bovine - UK: (Wales) susp, RFI
19 Sep 2015 BSE, bovine - Slovenia: (DO) OIE
17 Sep 2015 Prion disease update (05): novel prion disease, Shy-Drager syndrome
05 Sep 2015 Prion disease update (04): novel prion, alpha-synuclein
27 Jun 2015 BSE, bovine - Ireland: (LH) classical, conf, OIE
12 Jun 2015 Prion disease update (03): Ireland (LH) bovine, BSE susp
27 May 2015 Prion disease update (02): comment
The list goes on and on.

Human Prion Disease and Relative Risk Associated with Chronic Wasting Disease
Colorado, human prion disease resulting from CWD exposure is rare or nonexistent. However, given uncertainties about the incubation period, exposure, and clinical presentation, the possibility that the CWD agent might cause human disease cannot be eliminated.
Keep in mind the CDC and NIH always act with an abundance of caution. ;)


Bottom line, you should never do it but it's not the worst thing you could do.
 
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MaeZe

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Roxxsmom

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Deer are crawling with parasites, though most are considered to be harmless to humans. Still, they're pretty disgusting (warning--only look at this link if you are strong of stomach and not currently eating or about to eat), and I wouldn't want to eat venison that wasn't cooked well. One of my colleagues told me a story about deer liver flukes that actually grossed me out (and that's hard to do). In fact, I'm not sure I'll ever eat venison again (not that I've eaten it many times, but when I have, I liked it). White tailed deer are veritable schoolbuses for parasites.

With the meat you get in your grocery store or restaurant in the US, beef is safe to eat med rare, because the parasites you're likely to get from it (like the beef tapeworm) are likely to be caught by visual inspection (the tapeworm cysts are pretty obvious), But pork has trichinosis, which is hard to detect. Though the recommendation that pork must be cooked until there's not a trace of pink has been revamped. Plus chicken can have salmonella. Hamburger should be cooked through to 160 degrees (medium to medium well), because the surface of meat can be contaminated by e-coli during processing, and when it's ground up, tany bacteria on the surface will end up in the middle of the meat. Steak that is cooked on the outside, even if it's rare inside, should be safe, because any bacteria are going to be on the surface. Completely rare steak isn't safe, though, as there could be surface contamination. Pork and chicken are even less safe to eat raw than beef is, of course.

Rabbit is another meat that should be cooked pretty well, as there are some diseases (tularemia, for instance) one can get from it. I've heard that freshwater fish is less safe to eat undercooked or raw than salt water fish, but I don't know if this is actually true. Google isn't supporting this notion. There are risks with undercooked or raw salt water fish too. The fish used in sushi is generally considered fairly safe, but it isn't risk free. I believe freezing it can kill some parasites, but not all (and certainly not bacteria). I found a nematode worm (cooked) in the filet of a bass we'd caught on a fishing trip. It probably wasn't dangerous to humans (though there are indeed parasites one can catch from sea fish), even if it had been raw and alive, but it was a gross experience (fortunately, I found it while pulling the bones out and not as half a worm on my fork). Fortunately, there were other bass that were worm free, so that one ended up in the trash.

In a non industrialized setting, I'm guessing that raw or rare meat, even beef, would be riskier to eat than it is for us. But people also lived with parasites throughout most of history.

Raw or undercooked salmon can be very dangerous for dogs, by the way, though the organism that causes salmon poisoning in dogs doesn't affect non canids.