Querying against trends

Harlequin · Apr 6, 2017

Is there any point in (for example) querying western fantasy?

practically every agent for that genre is asking for non western (non european, non greek) fantasy these days.

I am sure this sort of thing must happen in other genres too, though, so the question is broader than just my own.

If you had a manuscript that was specifically listed by many agents as not wanted, would you sit on it a few years or try anyway?

blacbird · Apr 6, 2017

For starters, I'm not convinced that a "western" fantasy setting, per se, is unsellable. What may be a problem is the more specific faux-medieval European setting inhabited by dragons and elves and magic swords with portentous names and wizards and a bumpkin country boy who discovers a magic amulet and is dispatched on a quest. There have been a hell of a lot of those kinds of things published in recent years (thank you, Dr. Tolkien), and perhaps the market for those now is viewed by many agents as saturated. You might need a new "something" in your story that sets it apart, in a way obvious to an agent.

caw

ElaineA · Apr 6, 2017

I think it's a personal call. I did it, ultimately to no avail. I had an out-of-the-norm premise in a story that agents who read the full slotted into a saturated subgenre. (Even though I still don't think of it as a true fit in that subgenre.) I think if it would have been written so well they simply couldn't say no, they might have been more willing to take a chance on it. There needed to be something more than hooky premise and "good" writing, something really off the charts. My particular saturated genre still sells *a lot* in the SP realm, and for established authors, but I think for an agent-trawler, the MS just needs to be really eye-popping to get through the marathon.

If you think you have that, it doesn't hurt to query (with a really great query letter that shows off (not tells them) why they should take a look at your western-based fantasy). If no one bites, you still have a polished MS, either to pull out of the trunk when you do procure an agent, or to SP if you feel like it some day.

Harlequin · Apr 6, 2017

The society in question is based on Plato's republic (aren't they all?) but the race is nonhuman. The architecture and trappings aren't particularly Greek themselves; but all Greek is very much "out" atm, though, so I think I'm going to struggle. I've seen agents specify Greek/European quite a lot as nonquery subjects.

One of my friends has a YA crossworld western/medieval type fantasy; I think she's going to struggle as well, just on that alone (probably worse than me because her genre is more competitive).

mayqueen · Apr 6, 2017

I don't think enough agents have said "no Western-inspired fantasy" to indicate that it's a dead market, but I'm not totally up on the trends in the SFF world. I suspect it's a lot more like what Blacbird said, where the market for Game of Thrones-esque fantasy is highly, highly saturated. Speaking as someone who writes in a dead genre (historical fiction) and seems to be unable to stop herself from picking the least marketable subjects, I say query everyone and anyone doesn't explicitly say "no Western-inspired fantasy" and just keep your odds realistic. If you wrote it and polished the hell out of it, send it out.* The worst that can happen is agents tell you no.

*While obviously being mindful of agents' guidelines.

Slaven · Apr 6, 2017

If writting is your business than consider something more sellable. On a personal note, I write what I feel like getting into it. I consider genres at one point - right after THE END.

lizmonster · Apr 6, 2017

Harlequin said:
The society in question is based on Plato's republic (aren't they all?) but the race is nonhuman. The architecture and trappings aren't particularly Greek themselves; but all Greek is very much "out" atm, though, so I think I'm going to struggle. I've seen agents specify Greek/European quite a lot as nonquery subjects.

Really?? The only Greek-based stuff I'm aware of is Pierce Brown's trilogy, but I'm not as familiar with fantasy.

I understand your conundrum, and I'm not sure there's a right answer. I will say it's nearly impossible to time the market - stuff being trade-published now was bought by the publisher a year ago or more. And predicting where the trends are going is problematic for everyone involved.

If it were me, I'd just query, but I am not always sensible.

What are you writing next? Are you wedded to this genre? If you love the genre and intend to keep working in it, I think you have nothing to lose by querying now. If your next work looks like it's going to be very different...I'm still not sure you have anything to lose by querying the first work now. If it doesn't get you an agent, the second one might, and should the market improve for the first one, you'll have it ready to go.

Harlequin · Apr 6, 2017

Eh, well, by the time one writes something more sellable, the trends will have changed ;-)

Besides, I haven't got the capacity to write Afropolitan anything without being culturally appropriative, or the interest to write East Asian stuff. Maybe it's just a case of grass is greener, but I've always found east asian themed fantasy dull, probably because I grew up with it. I could sit on it and do somethign else in the meantime that isn't fantasy, though.

it's more cover letters than query in the UK which is nice but on the other hand there's probably only 20-30 agents who are suitable to query. I'm a little terrified of closing down all my options by querying at the "wrong" time.

Edit to add (after crossposting) - I think they mean greek mythology gods specifically, but I'm not sure tbh. If they do then I'm safe but if not... Hrm.

Greek culture is so inalienable from modern western culture and just western culture as a whole that I'm not quite sure a boundary can be drawn. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

I wanted it to be a series, and it's more science fantasy/spec fic than proper fantasy.

Argh, who knows. I'm just tearing my hair out over hypotheticals.

lizmonster · Apr 6, 2017

Harlequin said:
it's more cover letters than query in the UK which is nice but on the other hand there's probably only 20-30 agents who are suitable to query. I'm a little terrified of closing down all my options by querying at the "wrong" time.

Pretty sure you don't have to restrict your querying to UK agents. (The UK spec fic market is very small, I am told, which might explain why there are so few agents for it.) I believe there are a number of UK/non-US-based writers here on AW who are repped by US agents.

Harlequin said:
I wanted it to be a series, and it's more science fantasy/spec fic than proper fantasy.

Argh, who knows. I'm just tearing my hair out over hypotheticals.

Based on what you've said, yeah, I expect you're overthinking it.

Is the book finished and edited? Have you had other eyes on it yet? If yes, seems to me testing the waters isn't a crazy thing to do. (If not - there's this writer's forum I know that has all kinds of resources. The name escapes me. Give me a minute and it'll come to me...

)

waylander · Apr 6, 2017

Absolutely no reason why you shouldn't query US agents with this. I know several UK writers who have US agents.

Aggy B. · Apr 6, 2017

My understanding is that the European fantasy that folks are talking about is primarily the faux Medieval, all-white, all-male stuff which still tends to dominate a lot of High/Epic fantasy. It's also a thing of which there is always a lot in slushpiles and probably will be for a while still, so part of the issue is sheer oversaturation.

What kind of non-human characters are you talking about? Also, is this a secondary world or an alternate one? If you think the book has merit, you should query it. If you think it does stand out enough, you could write something else to query and then have this one on the back burner.

Personally, I don't think non-Western is a trend. I think demonstrable sales in non-Western based fantasy have enticed agents because it's a less saturated market, but it will even out after a while and, I don't really think more European based fantasy is going to disappear as long as it's not derivative. So, waiting for the pendulum to swing the other way is less likely to happen here. (Especially since there will be some folks deliberately writing Western based fantasy as they push back against what they see as unreasonable diversity.)

If it were me, I would probably query at least a few folks and see what kind of response I got before I put it on the shelf for three years.

Marissa D · Apr 6, 2017

I suspect you're right with the not wanting "Greek fantasy" means that they're not interested in seeing anything based in Greco-Roman mythology. Especially in YA or MG--Rick Riordan has kind of cornered that market.

Harlequin · Apr 6, 2017

thanks for the advice all. very useful.

Don't think I have enough posts to qualify SYW yet, even for queries. Too much lurking over the years.

Aggy B. said:
My understanding is that the European fantasy that folks are talking about is primarily the faux Medieval, all-white, all-male stuff which still tends to dominate a lot of High/Epic fantasy. It's also a thing of which there is always a lot in slushpiles and probably will be for a while still, so part of the issue is sheer oversaturation.

What kind of non-human characters are you talking about? Also, is this a secondary world or an alternate one? If you think the book has merit, you should query it. If you think it does stand out enough, you could write something else to query and then have this one on the back burner.

Personally, I don't think non-Western is a trend. I think demonstrable sales in non-Western based fantasy have enticed agents because it's a less saturated market, but it will even out after a while and, I don't really think more European based fantasy is going to disappear as long as it's not derivative. So, waiting for the pendulum to swing the other way is less likely to happen here. (Especially since there will be some folks deliberately writing Western based fantasy as they push back against what they see as unreasonable diversity.)

If it were me, I would probably query at least a few folks and see what kind of response I got before I put it on the shelf for three years.

Non human as in humanoid but effectively alien. Multiverse type set up (based on Plato's forms) so secondary world.

As for deliberate push-backs... I can't see that working well, publishers hold all the cards

Aggy B. · Apr 6, 2017

Harlequin said:
Non human as in humanoid but effectively alien. Multiverse type set up (based on Plato's forms) so secondary world.

As for deliberate push-backs... I can't see that working well, publishers hold all the cards

Publishers are interested in money. As long as a particular thing is selling, they will continue to invest in it. And broadening the scope of a genre means more money. (Despite folks who like to argue it has to be a zero sum game.) I, for one, like some Western-based fantasy (Tad Williams, GRRM), I just also like not having to always read about male protagonists so something that promises gender parity will go to the top of the list for me. (Again, not a zero sum game, just a question of what appeals to me most.)

Thedrellum · Apr 10, 2017

You only need 50 posts for SYW, so you're good to go. Also, for what it's worth, I wouldn't think from your general description that your work is Western Fantasy. As people have pointed out here, that term mostly means pseudo-European medieval fantasy.

Aggy B. · Apr 10, 2017

Hopping back in here to say that having looked at your opening scenes, I'm pretty confident that your book does not fit inside the "Western Fantasy" box, so I would feel good querying it even to agents who are looking for non-Western fantasy.

Old Hack · Apr 11, 2017

As you're in the UK you have a big advantage: it's common to send the first thirty pages or so in with queries here, and if your writing is very strong that will get you through no matter what genre you're writing in. Overdone genres fall out of fashion but are brought back into view when new books appear which are very strong, or which take the genre in a different direction.

It's all in the writing.

WeaselFire · Apr 11, 2017

In general, querying what is trending is the disadvantage. What is trending in sales now was written and queried several years ago and what will be trending when your book is published will likely be something different. Obviously, type of book has an effect, romances and mysteries tend to have a less trendy demand than young adult for example, but a good book will eventually sell.

Take vampires (really, I'm tired of them and want someone to...), Interview With A Vampire may have been near the beginning but Twilight did well a fair time later and there are still some getting published. Even though most have moved on to paranormal romance of all kinds, a really good vampire romance would still likely sell. Not every book is Hollywood Blockbuster material, many are much better than that.

Old Hack is correct, write a good book in any genre and someone will eventually publish it. Some markets may be better than others or more in demand by agents, but there are still a lot of agents who aren't strictly after the current trend. And a few who are creating trends.

Jeff

Harlequin · Apr 12, 2017

Thanks Aggy, I'm glad it doesn't sound overtly "western" (not that there's anything wrong with that but... yknow)!

I'd forgotten about this thread and only just come back to it.

Querying against trends

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

blacbird

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

mayqueen

practical experience, FTW

Slaven

Wetting my feet get

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

Aggy B.

Not as sweet as you think

Marissa D

Scribe of the girls in the basement

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

Aggy B.

Not as sweet as you think

Thedrellum

Grr. Argh.

Aggy B.

Not as sweet as you think

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

WeaselFire

Benefactor Member

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!