Iron Fist--thoughts?

Yeah, I'm in a similar place. Not as bad as I thought it would be. Sticking with it, for now.

I was able to watch it to the end, but I was super uncomfortable with how the male main character would have dangerous emotional outbursts and the two female main character just accept that was okay. Some of those scenes, although the made sense in the overall story, started to feel like excusing abusive behavior.

I'm enjoying it, even with its flaws.

Luke Cage seemed to have a lot of talking heads moments, imho, but was still damn good. I have heard negative things, but I guess I consider myself "in" regardless. Hopefully, they will correct course from here on out if there were writing/plot/character issues.

Haven't started it. Plan to soon!

I finished it the other day... I avoided all reviews until I did (I was going to watch it anyway, so I'd rather find the flaws myself). M.S. Wilson a friend sent me his interview about the role, and as soon as I saw him, I was like "he was the best fight in the whole show!" (maybe the second best? Bu the best opponent)

The story had problems, the show had other problems, and none of it helped any of it. I think it'll get a lot better once the Defenders are together, but I spent most of the show thinking it needed a good beta reader. Poor Claire, her "are you kidding me" face got a lot of work...

ETA: also, re his outbursts... this guy is the Iron Fist. One of my biggest story-problems in the show was they spent a lot of time with "this is important!" and not a lot of time showing me why. So, if Danny is this clear choice to become the Iron Fist, shouldn't be have some of this on lock? It makes the people who put their faith in look dumb, and undercuts his value. (yes, I get that he is "human" and "searching" but I watched Daredevil. You can do questioning and capable simultaneously.)

It had its problems but wasn't nearly as bad as all the negative reviews claimed. The critiques about the pacing in the first several episodes was kind of eye-rollingly rich, I thought, given how slowly Luke Cage takes to find its rhythm in its several eps, but it didn't get nearly the same hate online.

It wasn't Marvel's best but it wasn't horrible. I found season 2 of Daredevil more irritating for various reasons.

I think it got a lot of hate because crapping all over stuff seems to be the cool thing to do now. If something isn't totally perfect and doesn't universally appeal to every social group in existence, then apparently it's a steaming pile of shit.

Whatever. Critics are showing more and more how out-of-touch and irrelevant they are.

I think it turned out to be a functional story. But there is a lot to criticize especially in terms of issues of race and sex. That is relevant and personal to many of those critics, and so did ruin the show for them. That's a valid point of view.

I'm going to echo what I have heard here. I soooo don't hate it. I'm enjoying the Eff out of it, to be perfectly honest.

I find Finn Jones to be so refreshing. I hear people complain about his "vanilla performance," but I think he is acting like a young man who spent 15 years with monks in some magical land, training and taking his job as Iron Fist hella seriously. Consider that he hasn't been socialized in the same way people in the "real world" have. He's naive and innocent in many ways and is learning how much of an outsider that makes him.

Disclaimer: I do not know the comics or know ANYTHING about them, so I am not sure if this is true to character. But it is how I am reading it.

I've heard critics complain about the fight scenes, but I have found them engaging and badass. Danny moves with a very marked fluidity, IMHO. He isn't busting through walls like Luke or Jessica, or flipping around doing spinny, flashy moves like Matt/DD. He shows great control.

I really like it.

I like the siblings, Ward and Joy. There is something really tortured about Ward especially and Joy is a compelling character (even if I don't fully trust her yet). I am only on episode 5, so I still need to work through more of it.

Where people were saying, "Meh, I gave up after 2-3 episodes," I have had a great time and I look forward to seeing Iron Fist working with the other Defenders. He will bring some balance.

On the race and gender/sex part. It's not overt to me as a woman. I see Danny's missteps as him growing and learning how the frack society functions.

As for Danny being cast as non-Asian and those complaints (given that the comic book character was--as I understand--Caucasian), I DO recognize that folks have beef with it. But also know that we'd get just as many complaints about typecasting a martial arts master as Asian. At this point, we're so careful anymore that I'm not sure what is up or down. I'm taking it at face value but try to consider other perspectives as well. I am not Asian, so I listen to and try to respect those perspectives when I can. My choice is to keep watching.

I'm going to pop in with kind of a dissenting opinion - I think a lot of the criticisms are pretty valid, and though it was watchable, it definitely wasn't good. And the whitewashing really did affect the story: they spent so much time sidestepping the story's Chinese connections for fear of being racially insensitive that it came off as bland.

Iron Fist is a character that was born out of the kung fu movie trend of the 70s and 80s, and it did have a lot of racially insensitive aspects to it in the original comics. Cultural appropriation, white savior narratives, anti-Asian racism, etc etc. Luke Cage had that same issue - it was originally made to capitalize on the popularity of blaxploitation movies, and the comics used a lot of those same (often racially insensitive) tropes and stories. The difference was that Luke Cage the modern series was aware of that fact, owned it, and used the platform to kind of twist those tropes and make them empowering pro-black stories. Iron Fist took a different approach - it sanitized the stories to the point where there was no Chinese influence at all, completely tried to side-step the issue, and stripped the story to the point that all the flair and fun was gone. And it still came off racially insensitive a lot of the time.

Update: am on episode 11 and things are unfolding about Danny and his Iron Fist identity and responsibilities.

I am sill enjoying it, but lazy writing is starting to show. A lot of "Wow, this is convenient" kind of moments. And Claire feels off. Like the writers didn't quite understand who she was/is. And now she can stand toe to toe with Hand ninjas in a fight? Or at least hold them off?

Even so, I am still engaged. I actually like the Meachums. Joy is an interesting character. Ward is just a hot mess which I like.

It will be cool to see how this all ties in to the Defenders. I hope people give the character of Iron Fist a chance, though, even though the first season was kind of meh. I still think it's better than watching Matt and Elektra in DD season 2. Foggy, Karen, and Punisher were the best parts.

M.S. Wilson said:

Yeah, having seen the whole thing, I liked it overall. The only part that really bothered me was Joy right at the end of the last episode; that seemed ... out of character, to say the least. But otherwise I'm looking forward to Defenders and the interplay between all the characters.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was disappointed with how they ended it with Joy. She seemed the most pragmatic and grounded and the ending made her look like she was easily blown around in the dramatic wind.

I watched the first ep the other night and enjoyed it so will tune in for more. I watched the first ep of Jessica Jones and found it too dull so didn't bother with any more (but have heard good things about it so might give it another go).