Latin / Wiccan knowledgeable persons question

JohnnyGottaKeyboard

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I'm not equating the two; I just have a two part question.

First I found this snippet of a healing spell I would like to use in my WIP:

hanc nunc mihi permittas medicinam tuam

My questions are: does the most general English translation read "This now to allow healing"? (directed to the Latin experts)

And is there any way to shorten the phrase and have it basically be the same invocation? (directed to the Wiccan experts)

Thanks loads!
 

Calder

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Your translation is reasonable. Since you're in the realms of magic and spells, I suppose anything is permissable. You could simply use the two 'key' words: "Permittas medicanam," but it does sound a little "Harry-Potterish." You could consider using the imperative of the verb "sanare" - to heal, which gives you "Sana!" (singular - healing one person) and "Sanato!" (plural - healing more than one person).
 

neandermagnon

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Do Wiccans do rituals in Latin? I'm not a Wiccan but used to be on a path that would be considered pagan/occult (or possibly Satanic, depending the level of ignorance of the person describing it). I've known quite a few Wiccans over the years. I don't recall anyone (of any path) doing magick in Latin (unless the original's Goetia's in Latin? - Wiccans probably wouldn't do that kind of magick though.) Hebrew's a common language to use, due to influence from Qaballah (Jewish mysticism). Given that Wicca's a reviving of North-West European pre-Christian religions, I'd say English and the Celtic languages are more likely. The Wiccan Rede is in English, and other Wiccan expressions such as Merry Meet, or So Mote It Be. The Wiccan festival names are in NW European languages (i.e. a mix of different ones), including Celtic languages, (like Samhain, which comes from Irish). There is some Latin influence on pre-Christian religions, due to the fact that the Romans got there long before Christianity, but Latin is the language of the Church of Rome. Given that during mediaeval times the Church of Rome executed people they accused of witchcraft, Wiccans aren't terribly keen on them and doing rituals in their language seems a bit unlikely.

Granted that pagans are a very ecclectic bunch, virtually impossible to classify, and there are different branches of Wicca and each coven will have its own way of doing things, and covens often keep their rituals secret. So I'm not saying no wiccan ever did any ritual in Latin ever. I'm saying I don't think it's typical and it's certainly not default.

Latin is going to sound churchy and Harry Potterish. Going by the Wiccans I've known over the years, they like the Harry Potter stories but would be the first to point out that it's complete fiction and real Wiccans are nothing like them. So anything that portrays Wicca as being Harry Potterish isn't likely to go down all that well.
 
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neandermagnon

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I'm sure you're correct, but I didn't write the spell, I found it...In Latin. :)

Probably my mistake is generalizing paganism/witchcraft/wicca.

That text isn't Wiccan. It looks like it comes from pre-Christian Rome. Modern pagans specifically into Roman deities may use something like that, and some Wiccans may be into Roman deities, but it's not Wiccan.

If you're writing novels about anything related to paganism (including Wicca), people who practice those paths will usually be concerned about accurate representation. There are enough myths and misconceptions about pagan/occult paths already. Best to find out what kinds of spells various Wiccans do (there are many types of Wiccan so there's a lot of scope). There are lots of Wiccan websites, albeit that some are better than others. The Wikipedia pages on paganism and Wicca are the best ones I found when searching just now.
 

JohnnyGottaKeyboard

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That text isn't Wiccan. It looks like it comes from pre-Christian Rome. Modern pagans specifically into Roman deities may use something like that, and some Wiccans may be into Roman deities, but it's not Wiccan.

If you're writing novels about anything related to paganism (including Wicca), people who practice those paths will usually be concerned about accurate representation. There are enough myths and misconceptions about pagan/occult paths already. Best to find out what kinds of spells various Wiccans do (there are many types of Wiccan so there's a lot of scope). There are lots of Wiccan websites, albeit that some are better than others. The Wikipedia pages on paganism and Wicca are the best ones I found when searching just now.
Makes perfect sense. I'm not writing about Wiccans. I'm writing about stuffy scholarly types who figure out how to use old magic.
 

AW Admin

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That's not part of a spell. That's a standard openng for a recipe for an ointment or similar Conciction used for medical purposes.
 

Maythe

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You might find the ecauldron forum a useful resource if you're trying to avoid cock ups involving neopagans. Do read the guidelines before posting as IIRC (and it's been a while since I posted) they had some slightly unusual requirements for posts, however they've got a higher proportion of very knowledgeable types than other pagan forums I've found. Which is not to say the other forums weren't good in their own way but if you're looking for reasonably reliable info the cauldron is best IMO.
 

firegazer

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I would not by any means calls this Wiccan; you're safer going with 'witch' if it's a nonreligious person casting a spell, or 'pagan' if it's a non-Wiccan who is doing a ritual (i.e. making a prayer to a specific deity asking for help, using some of the same trappings of spellcasting in the process). That said, experienced witches/pagans don't actually need an incantation, though it helps -- incantations, physical spaces, and physical props are all extraneous, just meant to help get a spell going. If you're lazy or in a hurry, you can be sitting on the bus without a single magical tool, say nothing, and do a spell in your head.

That said, props and incantations help. Normally, you're only going to use props and incantations that are specific to your religion or paradigm; I don't know many actual pagans who would use Latin unless they had a Roman or a Christian slant. (Ironically, yes, Christian witches do exist, they're just very controversial on all sides). If you're dealing with a non-religious spellcaster -- a witch -- you could probably get away with a lot more variety in your chants and props.
 
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Spy_on_the_Inside

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To be honest, I have never been to a ritual or worked with a fellow Wiccan who used Latin in their work. And unless the practitioner was very connected to the ancient Roman Pantheon or was a Catholic Christo-Pagan, I can't really think of a reason why a Wiccan would use Latin.

From my own religious experiences, it is just a very odd sort of thing that doesn't fit. It's almost like invoking ancient Babylonian gods in a ritual. It's not impossible, but in twelve years, I never seen it done and I can't think of any reason why someone would do that.

Most Wiccans I know just do ritual work in their native language.
 

Ariella

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I can't speak to the Wicca, but I'd say a better translation of the Latin would be "May you now grant me this, your medicine."
 
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