Going back after title/format change

eruthford · Mar 7, 2017

Here's a question that I hope someone can answer...

I have a manuscript, a fatherhood memoir about the super-premature birth of our first and only son, and our challenges in getting him treatment (at first the doctor said he would refuse). The central plot question in said memoir was "am I really a father with all these machines and nurses doing all the work?" But, after 175 queries, I'm pondering a different approach, with a different title. The central plot question is becoming, "Will my faith in God survive this challenge?" thus becoming a test-of-faith story. This change offers the opportunity to introduce more stark emotions, more struggle, and it opens up the publication in the religious book market since it's more about faith.

So I've been doing some research on agents and publishers who do represent and publish that kind of religious test-of-faith / miracle memoir, and there's a great deal of overlap. That is to say, a great number of the agents are ones who either rejected or ignored the first manuscript. My question here today is whether I can query the new idea and new title to those who already passed on it. I was thinking I would not re-query those who had actually written a note to me saying no, but for the 100 or so who let it pass without comment, I'm going to take a guess that it was never read in the first place, so there's no harm in rolling the dice again. And I'm hoping that maybe they have a different low-paid assistant reading it this year who won't say "I already dealt with this!"

But my fear is that I'll be entered in to the National Idiot Database that agents share to filter out people who attempt sneaky things and then five years from now when I try to pitch a totally different project, I'll be blacklisted. Ok, I'm guessing that there isn't an actual National Idiot Database, but you try spending a year and a half talking to yourself about something that means the world to you and see what kinds of unreasonable theories come to mind.

Any thoughts you could offer, or if you know about resources on entry to the religious book market, I'd appreciate it. I have a copy of The Christian Writer's Market Guide and am going through that.

p.s. As you might be able to tell, I don't have the sturdiest ego on this topic, so it's ok if you tell me you think this isn't the best of plans, but I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from telling me "if 175 agents rejected you, obviously don't know what you're doing / what the #@$! is wrong with you?" as that actually would make me question my whole project here.

Aggy B. · Mar 7, 2017

Are you planning to rewrite the manuscript? If so, and if the central thesis, so to speak, is changing, chances are you will not just have a reworked version of this book, but a different book. In which case you shouldn't feel afraid to query it at a later point (once the new one is done).

And I understand that the events you are writing about will be the same, but I have a feeling it's not going to be the same book. (I write fiction, but I had a short story at one point that I liked, but didn't quite work. When I switched who the story was about - changed the focus - it was not only better but also not the same story, even though the central elements were identical.)

I'll also add that agents do remember queries, so there is a chance that someone will remember reading the first query. If it should come up, just be polite and honest. (Agents are usually okay with reconsidering *queries* if a work has undergone substantial changes.)

Best of luck with moving forward.

cornflake · Mar 7, 2017

Don't requery the same book with a different title to the same people, no. That is indeed a no-no. If you substantially rewrote the thing, like, changed it so it's a really different book, not the same book but like, with a little more focus on the religion aspect of the same story, that'd be maybe one thing. In that case, it's also recommended you wait a year or so. This is not, however, as I understand it, that case.

I don't know why you think people who didn't respond didn't read the query, but it's a. not an assumption I'd make and b. if that is the assumption you're making, why're you querying them, as they don't read queries.

Also, don't query agents and publishers at the same time!!

Also also, you're one post away from the 50-post mark, at which point you can post your own work, either part of your ms or your query (or both, or whatever), in the SYW section, if you want feedback on it.

Old Hack · Mar 7, 2017

Eric, you've started a couple of other threads here on very similar subjects.

[h=3]Thinking about switching genres on memoir[/h]
[h=3]Resources for structure of spiritual trial memoir genre[/h]
I understand how intensely important this book is to you. I had a son who was born at 21 weeks and six days, and he died very soon after in my arms. It was [insert impossible-to-find word here] and although it was a long time ago now (he was born in 1999) the pain of losing him is still just as sharp today as it was at the time. I remember that all I wanted to do, for years after, was tell people about him. I absolutely understand your need to tell people about your lovely son who I see from your blog is now a few years old, and doing well. I am SO pleased for you: it fills me with joy, knowing that.

However, the part of me which is an editor thinks you would be wise take a step back from this memoir you've written.

You've tried very hard to sell it, and it's been roundly rejected.

You're now trying to shoehorn it into a different genre in the hopes that it'll find a home.

My feeling is that in your desperation to be published, you are doing your book a disservice by trying to make it something it isn't.

I'm not suggesting you should abandon your journey to publication. Just pause and think. Work out why it's been rejected so much. It won't be because of the genre or the title or the format. And it certainly isn't because of your story, which is heartwarming and inspiring and wonderful. It is almost certainly because you haven't told your story as effectively as you could, because your writing isn't yet up to scratch, because your book isn't structured very well, because you've told the wrong story (and yes, I know that sounds bizarre in the context) or because the market is flooded with similar submissions and agents and publishers have to weed out the few which they think will sell well.

My suggestion is to step back, as I said. Do things which will help you work out where it's gone wrong. Spend a couple of weeks giving critiques in our Share Your Work rooms, which will help you look at writing more clearly. Post a section of your own work there (but point out that you want people to treat you gently). Read a lot of very successful memoirs and work out why they did so well, where others have failed. Forget about your own memoir for a while. Leave it alone for a month or more. And only come back to it when you can read it dispassionately and critically, because only then will you be able to understand why it hasn't yet found its market. You're going to have to make some very hard decisions about it if you do want it to be published, which will require a certain amount of separation from the huge emotional investment you have in it right now, so this is really important.

eruthford · Mar 8, 2017

Aggy B. said:
Are you planning to rewrite the manuscript? If so, and if the central thesis, so to speak, is changing, chances are you will not just have a reworked version of this book, but a different book. In which case you shouldn't feel afraid to query it at a later point (once the new one is done).

And I understand that the events you are writing about will be the same, but I have a feeling it's not going to be the same book. (I write fiction, but I had a short story at one point that I liked, but didn't quite work. When I switched who the story was about - changed the focus - it was not only better but also not the same story, even though the central elements were identical.)

I'll also add that agents do remember queries, so there is a chance that someone will remember reading the first query. If it should come up, just be polite and honest. (Agents are usually okay with reconsidering *queries* if a work has undergone substantial changes.)

Best of luck with moving forward.

Thank you! I'm getting started on re-working the manuscript. It's not a new book yet, but probably it will be in a few months.

eruthford · Mar 8, 2017

cornflake said:
I don't know why you think people who didn't respond didn't read the query, but it's a. not an assumption I'd make and b. if that is the assumption you're making, why're you querying them, as they don't read queries.

My guess is that the day my query hit the pile, only 30 percent got read, and the rest hit the trash. So why not roll the dice again?

cornflake said:
Also, don't query agents and publishers at the same time!!

No I don't do that. The publishers were a couple of editors I met at a conference (declined quickly) or after 8 weeks had gone by since querying agents, I queried a few small presses that consider unagented work.

eruthford · Mar 8, 2017

Old Hack said:
Eric, you've started a couple of other threads here on very similar subjects.

[h=3]Thinking about switching genres on memoir[/h]
[h=3]Resources for structure of spiritual trial memoir genre[/h]
I understand how intensely important this book is to you. I had a son who was born at 21 weeks and six days, and he died very soon after in my arms. It was [insert impossible-to-find word here] and although it was a long time ago now (he was born in 1999) the pain of losing him is still just as sharp today as it was at the time. I remember that all I wanted to do, for years after, was tell people about him. I absolutely understand your need to tell people about your lovely son who I see from your blog is now a few years old, and doing well. I am SO pleased for you: it fills me with joy, knowing that.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I am very sorry to hear about your [impossible-to-find word] experience with your son. I wish I could say that I had an experience that relates or can help, but I don't, even being in the hospital five months, we never had anything that difficult.

The reason that I keep looking for resources on this transition is that I have to start somewhere, and if I waited until I had my crap together before I did it, I'd never get anything done.

Old Hack said:
However, the part of me which is an editor thinks you would be wise take a step back from this memoir you've written.

You've tried very hard to sell it, and it's been roundly rejected.

You're now trying to shoehorn it into a different genre in the hopes that it'll find a home.

My feeling is that in your desperation to be published, you are doing your book a disservice by trying to make it something it isn't.

My developmental editor, on her first time through the manuscript, wanted to make the primary story arc a religious one. I resisted as I had kind of a negative view of the religious book market, and I had three or four books I considered role models in the parenthood-through-the-NICU genre that weren't religious, but I could find no religious memoir books, preemie-and-NICU or otherwise, that I particularly liked. So I'm now saying, "Ok, how can I make this work?" And, "I intentionally held back some emotional stuff from the first manuscript (too personal) now how do I get it in there without going through toe-curling cringing?"

The developmental edit, by the way, was an excellent experience that cost $2,000, which while worthwhile, I don't really have that kind of cash just lying around to do again.

Old Hack said:
My suggestion is to step back, as I said. Do things which will help you work out where it's gone wrong. Spend a couple of weeks giving critiques in our Share Your Work rooms, which will help you look at writing more clearly. Post a section of your own work there (but point out that you want people to treat you gently). Read a lot of very successful memoirs and work out why they did so well, where others have failed. Forget about your own memoir for a while. Leave it alone for a month or more. And only come back to it when you can read it dispassionately and critically, because only then will you be able to understand why it hasn't yet found its market. You're going to have to make some very hard decisions about it if you do want it to be published, which will require a certain amount of separation from the huge emotional investment you have in it right now, so this is really important.

The FAQs on SYW suggest keeping your submissions short, like 500 words or less, which I fully understand has to do with being reasonable to people's time. But how can you get at the larger structural questions this way?

Aggy B. · Mar 8, 2017

Well, the SYW can help you see if there are ongoing nuts and bolts issues that might be keeping agents from asking for more pages. And, sometimes you can find beta-readers that way, as it gives folks a chance to get a taste of your writing style and content before committing to read the whole thing. (I've had several loyal readers that I first found in the SYW here.)

Writing emotional and personal stuff is hard. I wrote a piece of flash after my mother passed away and ugly cried the entire time. But afterwards it was cathartic (for me, anyway) and especially when I shared it online and other folks commented on how it helped them too. So, as much as the really toe-curling stuff can hurt, it's not always as bad as you think it's going to be. I do think that a little bit of space and distance can help though and perhaps you are getting closer to a point where you can write those things you couldn't a month or a year ago.

Old Hack · Mar 8, 2017

eruthford said:
My guess is that the day my query hit the pile, only 30 percent got read, and the rest hit the trash. So why not roll the dice again?

If you submit to reputable agents, your query will get read every single time. EVERY SINGLE TIME. So my feeling is that as you've already submitted this very widely you're going to have to rework it completely if you're going to resubmit, or you've had your chance. And it's probably the latter, I'm afraid. Having said that, there are good small publishers you might be able to submit it to directly.

eruthford said:
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I am very sorry to hear about your [impossible-to-find word] experience with your son. I wish I could say that I had an experience that relates or can help, but I don't, even being in the hospital five months, we never had anything that difficult.

Thank you for your kind words, Eric. We've each had difficult roads to travel, but then everyone has, one way or another.

The reason that I keep looking for resources on this transition is that I have to start somewhere, and if I waited until I had my crap together before I did it, I'd never get anything done.

Ha! You're so right.

My developmental editor, on her first time through the manuscript, wanted to make the primary story arc a religious one. I resisted as I had kind of a negative view of the religious book market, and I had three or four books I considered role models in the parenthood-through-the-NICU genre that weren't religious, but I could find no religious memoir books, preemie-and-NICU or otherwise, that I particularly liked. So I'm now saying, "Ok, how can I make this work?" And, "I intentionally held back some emotional stuff from the first manuscript (too personal) now how do I get it in there without going through toe-curling cringing?"

If you held back the more personal stuff, you probably held back the core of the book. Writing memoir requires you to be painfully honest and revealing. It's very difficult to do well, but that's why some books are more successful than others.

The developmental edit, by the way, was an excellent experience that cost $2,000, which while worthwhile, I don't really have that kind of cash just lying around to do again.

Good. Don't do it again. You'd be far better off to pay for good workshops and writing-related courses which would help you become a better writer overall, rather than just improving one book. Good publishers will edit your work for you, for free. There's no need to pay for editing prior to submission.

The FAQs on SYW suggest keeping your submissions short, like 500 words or less, which I fully understand has to do with being reasonable to people's time. But how can you get at the larger structural questions this way?

You learn a huge amount from critiques on shorter pieces, so long as you're prepared to listen to what you're being told about your work. It's surprising how well it works. But an essential part of the process is giving critiques to other writers, too, so don't forget to do that as well.

Good luck with this, Eric.

eruthford · Mar 9, 2017

Old Hack said:
If you submit to reputable agents, your query will get read every single time. EVERY SINGLE TIME. So my feeling is that as you've already submitted this very widely you're going to have to rework it completely if you're going to resubmit, or you've had your chance. And it's probably the latter, I'm afraid. Having said that, there are good small publishers you might be able to submit it to directly.

Message received on this one. I had not realized that they took that as a specific duty.

eruthford · Mar 15, 2017

Ok everybody, I took your suggestion and posted in SYW. My first! Kinda scary:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/sho...Baby-Cannot-Cry-Father-Cannot-Pray-1208-words

Quickbread · Mar 15, 2017

Hi Eric, I just commented on your sample. I also wanted to ask you some specifics about your querying process here since it relates to the thread above.

- Did you share sample pages and/or a proposal with the agents or only send a query letter?
- Did you query in small batches and try different versions of the query, and did that affect the response?
- Did any agents request to read the manuscript?

eruthford · Mar 15, 2017

Quickbread said:
Hi Eric, I just commented on your sample. I also wanted to ask you some specifics about your querying process here since it relates to the thread above.

- Did you share sample pages and/or a proposal with the agents or only send a query letter?
- Did you query in small batches and try different versions of the query, and did that affect the response?
- Did any agents request to read the manuscript?

1. Depended on what the agent was asking for on his or her web page. Sometimes I sent just a one-page query, other times I attached five sample pages. If no specifications were given, I would send the query cover letter, a synopsis, author platform and marketing plan, competing titles list and three sample chapters, which was about 35 pages. The material is SYW, however, is new.
2. I did not have multiple versions of the query. Sometimes there was something really specific about the agent (one had written a fatherhood memoir, for example) and I would write a different query. Maybe my next SYW will be the query.
3. Yes, four agents from a conference requested it, and another four or five from queries requested the manuscript. In the end, they were all declines or they just forgot about me (and I did write e-mails to check up). And to answer the next obvious question, I did not get meaningful reasons for the declines, except the occasional "inadequate platform," which I already knew.

Quickbread · Mar 16, 2017

Okay. The reason I asked is because the request rate can point toward whether it's the manuscript that needs more attention or the query/proposal package, and sometimes it's all of the above.

Your request rate off your queries was very low for the number of agents you approached. So something in your pitch wasn't quite working. Platform matters, but it's not going to totally kill a deal if you've got an incredible manuscript. And it's not enough to offset a mediocre manuscript either. You may want to post your query in Query Letter Hell to get some thoughts on how the existing query could have been stronger. That way, you can fix it next time.

When you're ready to query again, send them in batches of six every week or two. Take your time so you can evaluate and improve your approach as you go, before you burn through all your possible agent matches.

Going back after title/format change

eruthford

Aggy B.

Not as sweet as you think

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

eruthford

eruthford

eruthford

Aggy B.

Not as sweet as you think

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

eruthford

eruthford

Quickbread

eruthford

Quickbread