Growing tomatoes is complicated...help!

Tazlima · Mar 3, 2017

So I have a small garden space, roughly 4'x12', running along a tall brick wall, and I've decided to try my hand at growing tomatoes there. I've worked out the planting timing for my area (this weekend is perfect), but I'm stumped about what to do as far as a support system. Cages? A Trellis? Strings? Wire? Clips? I had no idea there were so many options and now I'm overwhelmed.

The problem is this: I don't know what kind of tomatoes I have. All the instructions I can find are like, "Do it this way for tomatoes varieties that are more viney, and that way for tomatoes that grow more as bushes."* The seeds I have were harvested from some random tomatoes I found at the farmer's market. They were in a bin with a half-dozen other varieties that all shared one sign: "Heirloom." (I bought some of each and these beat the pants off all the cooler-looking varieties when it came down to the taste-test).

I have no idea if they're viney or bushy. I don't know if their plants grow huge or stay smaller. They're about the size of a typical grocery-store tomato, but with much more delicate skin, and they're red. That's all I know.

I don't want to use something too small and weak and end up with huge plants that fall over just when they're at their best, but I also don't want to make a silly-looking massive support system for eensy plants.

What's the best practice when you're dealing with mystery seeds?

*Went back to look up the vocabulary: they're either Determinate or Indeterminate

cornflake · Mar 3, 2017

I don't have a garden, so huge salt boulder here, but I have friends who've grown tomatoes, and two people who had different sizes of tomatoes all growing in the same area (one basically along a wall, one in a more open area), used a like, section of trellis, and then had a couple of stakes a bit farther out for stuff that spread. The one I'm most familiar with had like, BIG heirloom-type tomatoes and grape tomatoes all just growing on the same like, 5-ft length of trellis, basically, also in with cucumbers. They had a small patch next to the house for a little garden they'd kept for years and stuff just grew all intertwined and worked -- they got bunches every summer.

ETA: I actually don't know if they planned it, or if they planted some random stuff back in the day and that's what happened over time, but both gardens just kind of were like 'eh, tomatoes, over there,' and the plants didn't seem too picky (which could be a function of ten tons of things, I don't have a garden [besides windowsill herbs and such]).

shakeysix · Mar 3, 2017

Relax.If they start to topple you can cage them or tie them to a stake. tear a soft rag, like a tee-shirt, to make the ties and use a bamboo stake--easily bought at a garden center or you can buy cages at a garden center. Don't plant them too close together, those heirlooms do like to flop and ramble. They still produce fruit. The fruit is easier to reach if they are staked but you don't have to stake them. Jobe's tomato spikes are a good simple fertilizer. Don't use them until the plants are well up and budding. Push a spike into the soil next to each plant. Watch for pests--google tomato pests images so you have an idea what to look for--pick them off by hand. Slugs may need a sip of beer in a shallow saucer. --s6

Marissa D · Mar 3, 2017

Look for tomato cages at your local garden center. They look like Dalek frames made out of wire (sort of truncated cones). That should do for whichever kind of tomatoes you've got, hopefully.

Silva · Mar 3, 2017

Don't sweat it. You can do whatever seems appropriate once they're big enough for you to be able to tell what's needed. (I prefer trellises to cages, but ymmv.)

Making sure they don't get set outside until after the last frost date, and that they're properly fertilized, are bigger concerns.

Jaymz Connelly · Mar 3, 2017

shakeysix said:
Relax.If they start to topple you can cage them or tie them to a stake. tear a soft rag, like a tee-shirt, to make the ties and use a bamboo stake--easily bought at a garden center or you can buy cages at a garden center. Don't plant them too close together, those heirlooms do like to flop and ramble. They still produce fruit. The fruit is easier to reach if they are staked but you don't have to stake them. Jobe's tomato spikes are a good simple fertilizer. Don't use them until the plants are well up and budding. Push a spike into the soil next to each plant. Watch for pests--google tomato pests images so you have an idea what to look for--pick them off by hand. Slugs may need a sip of beer in a shallow saucer. --s6

I use cheap pantyhose when I have to stake something. Doesn't cut into the plant, and the brown colour blends in with the surrounds better.

AW Admin · Mar 3, 2017

Wait and see. You don't have to stake or cage or trellis right away.

Cages are probably the easiest, and if they plant turns out to be a monster, you can clip open the cage and train it along the cage.

Also if you get loads of blossoms, there's nothing wrong with thinning some so that you'll have fewer total tomatoes, but they'll all thrive.

Brightdreamer · Mar 3, 2017

shakeysix said:
Relax.If they start to topple you can cage them or tie them to a stake. tear a soft rag, like a tee-shirt, to make the ties and use a bamboo stake--easily bought at a garden center or you can buy cages at a garden center. Don't plant them too close together, those heirlooms do like to flop and ramble. They still produce fruit. The fruit is easier to reach if they are staked but you don't have to stake them. Jobe's tomato spikes are a good simple fertilizer. Don't use them until the plants are well up and budding. Push a spike into the soil next to each plant. Watch for pests--google tomato pests images so you have an idea what to look for--pick them off by hand. Slugs may need a sip of beer in a shallow saucer. --s6

If rodents are an issue in your area, those need to be taken into consideration as well, maybe by building a simple hardware-cloth cage. (We had rats chew through the vines of our tomato plants one year. Didn't seem interested in the tomatoes - just the vine.)

shakeysix · Mar 3, 2017

Peppers are easy as is cilantro--next year you can go for a salsa garden! --s6

Introversion · Mar 3, 2017

Brightdreamer said:
If rodents are an issue in your area, those need to be taken into consideration as well, maybe by building a simple hardware-cloth cage. (We had rats chew through the vines of our tomato plants one year. Didn't seem interested in the tomatoes - just the vine.)

Chipmunks like to chew on the fruit when I've grown them. :rant:

Brightdreamer · Mar 3, 2017

Introversion said:
Chipmunks like to chew on the fruit when I've grown them.

We have those, too. And two types of squirrel. The rats tend to be the biggest Issue, though.

Recently, we had a trapper out to deal with rodents; he asked if he could keep the gray squirrels. (He was a Southern man, and apparently they're good eatin'...) We said we didn't care, but Mom did want the little Douglas squirrels released.

He also released the flying squirrel he caught. I didn't even know we had them...

Now that the rats are temporarily knocked down, I wonder if we should try tomatoes again, though we don't get a long growing season, or much sun.

Tazlima · Mar 3, 2017

Thanks everybody. I feel better. I was just like "lalala, tomato noob. Let's see what Step 1 is...wha? But... I have seeds and I thought... no... wait, they get huge? WHY IS THIS SO COMPLICATED?!"

I've decided to go with the Florida Weave method, since it looks both versatile and easy, and I'm going to use 8 foot stakes, so however high these buggers want to grow, I'll be ready for them. If they turn out to be viney, I'll add a crossbar on top and switch to the string trellis. Heck, I could do a combination of both!

My dog's pretty good at keeping rats (and everything else) out of the yard. At least, nothing's had a go at the quail yet, and they've been in the outdoor cage for a while now, so I'm not too concerned about those. Bugs, on the other hand... I get every kind of bug imaginable. I've never had really delicate plants before, so normally I just kill fire ants and leave the lizards to feast on whatever else wanders through. I'm not going to sweat those issues until they crop up, though.

GailD · Mar 4, 2017

Hi Taz. I'm now going to complicate things a little. I'm not sure if you got the seeds directly from the tomatoes or whether you bought a packet of seeds. Packet seeds = no problem. Harvested from a tomato, however, they need a little treatment first. According to the owner of the garden center near me, this is why and what you do:

The faintly blueish matter surrounding tomato seeds is actually an anti-germination agent. In nature, tomatoes propagate best by spreading their seeds far and wide, usually via birds. So the anti-germination agent is nature's way of preventing too many tomato plants growing in one place and smothering each other. The bird's digestive tract removes this anti-germination stuff. If you want the best results from seeds taken directly from a tomato, spread the seeds out and place them in a dark, dry environment. They get slightly moldy. The mold removes the anti-germination agent and you're good to go. You should then get lots of tomato seedlings.

Tomato seeds can be sown directly where you want them to grow but I would also recommend sowing them in seed trays first and then transplanting the strongest seedlings to the bed.

I had some success (after a shaky start) with some cherry tomatoes this year. I didn't cover them with a net and the birds got about as much as I did. But I'm happy with that.

Tazlima · Mar 4, 2017

GailD said:
Hi Taz. I'm now going to complicate things a little. I'm not sure if you got the seeds directly from the tomatoes or whether you bought a packet of seeds. Packet seeds = no problem. Harvested from a tomato, however, they need a little treatment first. According to the owner of the garden center near me, this is why and what you do:

The faintly blueish matter surrounding tomato seeds is actually an anti-germination agent. In nature, tomatoes propagate best by spreading their seeds far and wide, usually via birds. So the anti-germination agent is nature's way of preventing too many tomato plants growing in one place and smothering each other. The bird's digestive tract removes this anti-germination stuff. If you want the best results from seeds taken directly from a tomato, spread the seeds out and place them in a dark, dry environment. They get slightly moldy. The mold removes the anti-germination agent and you're good to go. You should then get lots of tomato seedlings.

Tomato seeds can be sown directly where you want them to grow but I would also recommend sowing them in seed trays first and then transplanting the strongest seedlings to the bed.

I had some success (after a shaky start) with some cherry tomatoes this year. I didn't cover them with a net and the birds got about as much as I did. But I'm happy with that.

I did harvest the seeds straight from a tomato, but luckily my friend the internet taught me about letting them rot in the tomato guts for a while as part of the harvesting process, so I should be good to go on that front. Apparently, in addition to removing that layer you're talking about, there are some seed-borne plant diseases, and a few days of fermentation also kills those (don't quote me on that, since I didn't bother to research WHAT diseases would be spread via seeds. It could just be internet rumor).

I like the idea of planting them all elsewhere first. I built my support system today and re-examined the space with an eye to putting tomatoes in it, and it looks like I'll only have room for about six plants. I have waaay more seed than that, so planting them all and choosing the best is a dandy idea! Plus that way I'll have a bunch of extra seedlings to give away to friends or maybe even sell somewhere. Heirloom seedlings should fetch a few dollars. (I also have cherry tomato seeds, but after reading about the risks of cross-pollination hybridizing future generations, I'm hesitant to put them in the same space. They were just sort of a bonus anyway, so I'll just stick to the heirlooms and maybe get a planter for one of the cherry tomato plants and put it far away from the heirlooms).

Thanks for the tip!

Growing tomatoes is complicated...help!

Tazlima

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

shakeysix

blue eyed floozy

Marissa D

Scribe of the girls in the basement

Silva

saucy

Jaymz Connelly

Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree

AW Admin

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

shakeysix

blue eyed floozy

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

Tazlima

GailD

Still chasing plot bunnies.

Tazlima