How Does "Retelling of a Story" Work In Novels

If it's based on Disney characters, you likely do not. Disney is famously fucking rabid w/re copyright and trademark protections. They've gone after nursery schools with Mickey stickers on the window and such.

I'd question if the other things you're reading are based on Disney.

Wicked is based off The Wizard of Oz, which has nothing to do with Disney, in either book or movie form, to my knowledge. Disney has produced versions of many fables and fairy tales, and their versions are what they protect. Hence their Peter Pan stuff is untouchable, but ... well Barrie's is a bit of a sticky wicket but that's a very specific case. Disney's Cinderella is very different from the original. If you're working off the original though, it had better be clear enough to ward off a cabal of lawyers with nothing else to do, and hours to do it in.

Why not go back to the source material for inspiration rather than infringe copyright?

ColdWintersNight said:

@Cornflake. Oh, I didn't mean Wizard of Oz belongs to Disney (it doesn't), I'm just wondering in general, how Maguire took the idea of Oz, the witches, the characters and even using Dorothy a little at the end, and he was allowed to do so. Because that's what I want to do essentially.

He was able to do that because Baum wrote over 100 years ago.

@Helix. Weeeeelll. The original Aladdin is very different compared to say, original Beauty and The Beast. If you do a retelling of a character that just happens to end up an enchanted object in a cursed Princes' castle, you can stray far away enough from the anything Disney related. Heck, I didn't even use any sort of mention of Bell until the very, very end, and only in brief "Oh, there's a women". I don't know how I can stray away from Disney's Aladdin when I want a young man growing up in the palace to be trained as a vizier who dabbles in the dark arts, finds a talking enchanted parrot, becomes mean and evil and wants power all while eyeing the sultan's daughter. Plus the original telling of Aladdin (which is actually an ancient Chinese story from thousands of years ago) did not have an evil guy in it. The original B&B did have servants though.

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If you're thinking of even skating close to the Disney line, don't. It's not worth it. Even if you might win in court, though from what you're saying you don't sound particularly convinced of that, if they decided to go after you, you'd spend years and hundreds upon hundreds of thousands defending yourself.

ColdWintersNight said:

@Cornflake. Oh, I didn't mean Wizard of Oz belongs to Disney (it doesn't), I'm just wondering in general, how Maguire took the idea of Oz, the witches, the characters and even using Dorothy a little at the end, and he was allowed to do so. Because that's what I want to do essentially.

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I'd imagine it's because he based it on the character in book and not in the Warner Brothers movie. But it should be easy to find out via a search engine of your choice.

ColdWintersNight said:

@Helix. Weeeeelll. The original Aladdin is very different compared to say, original Beauty and The Beast.

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Yes. I should think so.

ColdWintersNight said:

If you do a retelling of a character that just happens to end up an enchanted object in a cursed Princes' castle, you can stray far away enough from the anything Disney related. Heck, I didn't even use any sort of mention of Bell until the very, very end, and only in brief "Oh, there's a women". I don't know how I can stray away from Disney's Aladdin when I want a young man growing up in the palace to be trained as a vizier who dabbles in the dark arts, finds a talking enchanted parrot, becomes mean and evil and wants power all while eyeing the sultan's daughter. Plus the original telling of Aladdin (which is actually an ancient Chinese story from thousands of years ago) did not have an evil guy in it. The original B&B did have servants though.

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I really can't follow any of this. What does Beauty and the Beast have to do with it?

ColdWintersNight said:

@Helix Even if he based his characters off the book and not the Warner Brother's movie he still borrowed a whole world based off an already created IP. It's true that Baum's copyright is public domain...aaaaaand I think I just literally answered my own question. Wizard of Oz is public now, and when he wrote Wicked he was allowed to base his work off it. Plus since it wasn't a huge Broadway musical hit yet, nobody really cared.

It's interesting but when I put in "Evil Vizier with talking parrot" into Google, the only things that come up on the first page are 1001 Arabian Nights. But in images it's the Disney stuff. Hmmm.

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You understand the musical Wicked was based off the novel, Wicked....It couldn't have been a musical yet, because the musical was made from the book... They didn't violate his copyright; they had permission.

ColdWintersNight said:

@Helix Even if he based his characters off the book and not the Warner Brother's movie he still borrowed a whole world based off an already created IP. It's true that Baum's copyright is public domain...aaaaaand I think I just literally answered my own question. Wizard of Oz is public now, and when he wrote Wicked he was allowed to base his work off it. Plus since it wasn't a huge Broadway musical hit yet, nobody really cared.

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Yep.

ColdWintersNight said:

It's interesting but when I put in "Evil Vizier with talking parrot" into Google, the only things that come up on the first page are 1001 Arabian Nights. But in images it's the Disney stuff. Hmmm.

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*squints at images*

If you're set on using a parrot, make it a region-appropriate one. What species is that supposed to be?

ETA: Are the vizier, parrot and Aladdin all in the same One Thousand and One Nights tale?

Could someone fix the thread title, please?

As far as I recall from a childhood of B-movie Saturday matinees - the 'evil vizier' is a stock character in pseudo-Arabian Nights movies (any number of Aladdin/Sindbad/Ali Baba movies and knockoffs). In fact, I can't recall a 'good' vizier. They're always puppet-mastering the elderly/foolish king, forcing the lovely princess to marry them, and consorting with evil magicians, while looking vaguely Basil Rathbone-like. I think you're okay with a vizier, as long as you don't call him Jafar, and don't model him exactly on the one in That Movie. Don't call your talking parrot by it's movie name or make it look the same (not a scarlet macaw. Maybe an African grey - famous for their ability to mimic speech.)Or, upgrade to a talking (magic) falcon.

Focus on your basics - a young man's journey to the Dark Side.

ColdWintersNight said:

@Cornflake. Oh, I didn't mean Wizard of Oz belongs to Disney (it doesn't), I'm just wondering in general, how Maguire took the idea of Oz, the witches, the characters and even using Dorothy a little at the end, and he was allowed to do so. Because that's what I want to do essentially

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The Wizard of Oz novel is in the public domain (out of copyright protection), so McGuire was able to write a story that incorporated its characters and themes, told from the "other side" without repercussions. The Oz movie, which was made in 1939, is not yet in the public domain, but Wicked was based on the original novel, wasn't it? I read it some time ago, so it's murky.

Disney also has a branding/Trademarking thing going with the Aladdin franchise, since they made a series of cartoons, comics, toys, clothes and other merchandise etc. based on their Aladdin movie.

In general, there is no problem with writing a retelling of a fairy tale or other classic work that is out of copyright. Writers do this all the time. The original Aladdin story (From the Arabian Nights) is also out of copyright. But a particular movie or retelling of a fairy tale made more recently is not in public domain, and Disney is known (as CF already pointed out) for being very, um, intense about defending its copyrights and trademarks.

So how can one tell if an Aladdin retelling is based on the original story or on the Disney version? I'm afraid that the presence of a villain named Jafar (with a smartass pet parrot named Iago) probably would be a giveaway, as would any reference to specific characters, settings, descriptions, or names, or events that were unique to the Disney version of the story.

Enjoy writing your fan fiction (many people love writing FF, and it's a great learning experience), but trying to publish it would be very risky. Of course, you could write a story that is essentially the same as the one you're 35k words into, but scrub anything that evokes the Disney characters.

You're writing fanfic. If you want to publish it, you'll need to put it up for free on a specialised fanfic site like A03 or Fanfiction.net (adult content warning for both those links). You will not be able to profit in any way, shape or form from this work, and you will need to accept the risk that Disney may ask it to be taken down at any time.

Nothing wrong with this, just keep it in mind and try to remove any ideas of 'selling' from your mind. In some occasions I would suggest trying to switch to a more public domain version of the story, but reading your posts I don't think your heart would be in this.

ColdWintersNight said:

@Cornflake. Oh, I didn't mean Wizard of Oz belongs to Disney (it doesn't), I'm just wondering in general, how Maguire took the idea of Oz, the witches, the characters and even using Dorothy a little at the end, and he was allowed to do so. Because that's what I want to do essentially.

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Because he used the Wizard of OZ BOOK as his source, not the MGM movie. And the Wizard of Oz book is out of copyright.

The problem with doing a "retelling" of a Disney movie is that they OWN those characters.

You can go back to the original Arabian Nights tales and do whatever you want. But stay away from any Disney names and scenes.

I wrote a story (good enough content, but never finished it and doubt I will) with a similar problem- I was inspired by the video game 'Castlevania' to write a fanfic about a demon living in the castle that morphed into a much better original story with original characters and Biblical elements and heavy supernatural and philosophical bends. The source inspiration was clear enough without it infringing on someone else's ideas once I made some significant tweaks that greatly benefitted the characters, plot, and setting. At that point, I moved my story from Castlevania fanfic to a great 'Haunted castle in Europe with demons as good guys' story.

I think in your case it's going to be a matter of knowing what to keep and what to change. Aladdin, as other posters have noted, isn't a Disney copyright- Iago and Jafar are. Disney's Aladdin isn't a lesson in medieval Persian politics- your story is. The evil vizier in a desert palace is common to both. At the very least, I'd pick different names, alter some of the dark magic elements (if they're common to the Disney story), avoid carbon copying characters such as 'Sultan' and 'Jasmine', and think of what ways you can remove the 'Disney' while still keeping the spirit of the 1001 Arabian Night fairy tale or other literature from that region of the world. Use historical world building to your advantage, add some serious dark elements (preferably without anyone transforming into a snake ), and give your MC a pet bird (falconry is popular in Iran so perhaps your bird doesn't need to be a parrot).

Also, Disney's Aladdin blends Indian, Persian, and Arabic cultures into the movie. My advice (if you're not doing so already) is do some serious research into those particular traditions (you mentioned Persian) to hammer home the 'not Disney's Aladdin' and add to the world building so you're not scratching the surface of the quintessential 'Arabia' like the movie does.

If you're not already, perhaps aim for a historic fantasy and at that point, you got inspired to write something based on another story you consumed. That's been done since humans figured out we had imaginations.

This isn't a Story Research question. Hang on to your hats, folks, we're going for a wee ride.

Tsu Dho Nimh said:

Because he used the Wizard of OZ BOOK as his source, not the MGM movie. And the Wizard of Oz book is out of copyright.

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Thanks for making this point about the book vs. the movie! The Baum novels are in the public domain. The MGM movie is not. When Maguire wrote Wicked, he had to make sure not to use details that were only from the movie (the iconic ruby slippers were silver in Baum's novel, for example, so they're silver in Wicked).

If you really want to write about copyrighted works, and you don't have permission from the copyright holder to do so, it has to remain in the realm of fan fiction. There's nothing wrong with writing fan fiction, and several of us here do so. But it can't be published commercially and whether or not fan fiction falls under fair use is iffy, meaning there's always a possibility of receiving an order to take your work down if you share it. In practice, it's unlikely that even Disney is going to go after someone writing fanfic on a site like Archive of Our Own, because they're not that concerned about hobbyists sharing stories amongst themselves. But if you did anything that they saw as infringing on their brand, it would be an issue.

Writing fanfic is fine, but keep in mind that most Disney movies are based in classic fairytales and folklore that are in the public domain. You can write something based in the story of Aladdin from 1,001 Arabian Nights without infringing on Disney's copyright, but you'll have to make sure you put your own spin in it and don't borrow elements from Disney.