Help with Trek Distance

Emermouse

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Okay in a book I'm writing, the characters basically spend a month on foot traveling. I am trying to think of how many miles they would, on average, cover. Though it's tricky, given that I'm talking about a group of people, a percentage of which are small children or sick or injured, so I know I can't use the stuff for one single person. With group hikes, you move as fast as your slowest member.

Of course, I freely admit that I will cheat a little; one of the perks of writing fiction is that you can cheat and I sure as heck plan on taking advantage of it. I probably won't mention the exact distance, so all this anal retentive nitpicking is more for me, so I can create the scene in my head. Oh and because I know my strengths, know that I am nowhere near Tolkien's level when it comes to describing landscapes, I'm probably going to do something like, "It had been a month of traveling, dragging themselves over rocks, through the muck, slush, and rain, but they were finally here." Part of writing is knowing your strengths and weaknesses and I know I don't have Tolkien's ability to describe settings. Besides most of the action of the book, doesn't really happen on the road--it happens once they get to the place they were traveling to--so I thought it would be smarter to just say something along the lines of "They were here" then get back to the story.

But I would like to have some more specifics, just for myself. Anyone know of any app or website where you can type something in and find out what is three hundred miles from where you live or something like that? Tried Google Maps, but I couldn't figure it out. Hence why I'm here, seeking the wisdom of others.
 

blacbird

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For starters, landscape and weather matter hugely, so it's really hard to generalize. In any long trip afoot, crossing streams gets to be a big problem. Likewise if mountains are involved. What time of year? What is the weather like? If this is Fantasy, you have a lot of leeway to design such things, but you also need to be realistic in order to gain the trust of readers. If families with children are involved, you're talking only a few miles a day. I've written a novel involving historical travel via wagon train across the west in 1850, and did a lot of research into how far such travel could average daily. My best estimate is about 10-15 miles. They took half a year, about 180 days, during the warmest weather, to travel the 2000 miles from embarkation in the Missouri River region to California or Oregon.

caw
 

MaeZe

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When I plan a hike in the mountains, 10 miles in a day is an easy trek, even with kids. That's on trails so like blacbird says, terrain matters.
 

snafu1056

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In my own case I had a group traveling 750 miles in just about a month. I estimated a daily rate of between 12-25 miles a day. This was a real world setting, so I was able to study the terrain they'd be crossing. The group had animals, and they could only move as fast as their slowest animals, which were camels. I read old accounts of merchant caravans traveling similar distances and they backed up my estimate. Of course, in my case the terrain was relatively flat. No Alps to cross.

Obviously lots of factors have to be considered. Terrain and weather have already been mentioned, also supplies. What are they eating? Do they have rations? If so, how much and who is carrying them? Are there pack animals involved? They will need to stop regularly to feed and drink too. And what are the animals eating? Are you carrying fodder? Pack animals are usually slow moving, so that tacks time on. Is the party just wandering blind? Or are they using some kind of established road or trail? Or maybe they're lead by a scout that knows the area. Even for a "simple" trip the logistic nightmares always seem to pile up.
 
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Curlz

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I'm talking about a group of people, a percentage of which are small children or sick or injured, so I know I can't use the stuff for one single person. With group hikes, you move as fast as your slowest member.
...
Tried Google Maps, but I couldn't figure it out. Hence why I'm here, seeking the wisdom of others.
In Google Maps on the left you can search a location. After the location is shown on the map, in the menu on the left you'll see "Directions" option, click that and enter the other place. You'll see route and above it you can see little pictures of car, person etc means of transport, just click on the person and it will show you the walking route with an estimated how long it's going to take walking there.

When we go out for a walk through the countryside, a 6 mile walk usually takes 5 hours, including a long stop for lunch and lots of little breaks for taking pictures. It's also quite tiresome if the terrain includes going up small hills or non-trodden paths (walking through vegetation etc), these will slow you down.
For the route we use books for walkers, which give an estimated time, and 4 mile walk is usually said to require around 2 hour time. There are lots of webpages for trekking/rambling through the countryside, just choose one that includes terrain similar to the one in your book, and you'll see routes with estimated time to walk it (then just multiply the distance as needed). Just keep in mind that trekking may take into account walking on a well trodden path, which will be faster as compared to walking through non-trodden countryside.
 

Mark HJ

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As others have said, it depends... the walker, the terrain and conditions.

Nearly twenty years ago, my father walked from Bristol to Reading to visit us - probably about 50-60 miles, given that he caught the bus as far as Bath because he was bored with that bit of the walk. He followed roads/pathways/canal towpaths, so relatively easy conditions and with clement weather, in locations he was familiar with, and using B&B accommodation over-night along the way. It took him about four days, aged in his early sixties, as a regular, well-equipped and experienced walker.

Frankly, if it was me, I would have bought another bus ticket when I got to Bath.

Now, at nearly 80, I've heard him complain that his regular 7 mile walk (each way) to visit his cousin seems a bit uphill at times.
 

GeorgeK

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Military history is consistent from the bronze age to just before the internal combustion engine. 20 miles and that assumes good roads. Horses actually slow down the troops because they have to stop to eat and digest. The exception was Stonewall Jackson who was renowned for marching 50 miles per day.

Of course you could just use a different measure like leagues or such and leave it unspecified.

How far is that?
It's fifty cripples.
What's a cripple?
It's how far you have to run a stout man before he's crippled
 

Emermouse

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Thanks again for all the advice, guys. Like I said, I will probably leave most of the details out of the story, because again, one of the perks of writing fiction, is that you can cheat, and I intend to take advantage of that rule. I did find a neat website while googling called DistanceCity. It's neat, but I still wish there was something where you can ask, if I travel X miles east from A, where would that take me? I keep trying to find a website like that, but haven't had much luck. Though again, I plan on cheating. The information is more for my own benefit, so I can construct the scene in my head. About five percent of the stuff I research, actually winds up in my works.

Anyway, here's DistanceCity, for anyone who needs it: http://distancecity.com/
 

frimble3

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If you're okay with 'cheating', how about 'fudging'? Go to Google Maps, at the bottom right of the map there's a scale 'this long a line is X kms', which can be adjusted. (Possibly there's some way to change this to miles - I'm Canadian so I get kms, I guess.) Work out how many miles/kms you want to check, mark it on a physical ruler, or the edge of a piece of paper.
Now, go to your preferred starting point (in most cases, unless you fiddle with the setting, 'north' is the top of the screen) and hold your distance line up to the screen (any direction you like). There's how far X miles, as the crow flies, will take you. You can then magnify the whole thing on Google, check out roads and terrain, then go to satellite view, and see exactly what you'd be getting into. It's clunky but it works.
 

jennontheisland

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Check out "through hikers" and things like the PCT and NWT. There is a ton of info on this and I'm sure people will help; they are a very friendly group.

Typical fast moving through hikers with ultralight packs (less than 30 lbs usually) can cover 25 miles through forested mountain terrain a day. Me, I know I can do 2.25 miles an hour over varied terrain carrying a 15 lb pack, but only for about 6 hours.
 

Mark HJ

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There is another reference, a book my partner uses, that you might find useful - I was trying to remember the title and have now found it:

The Medieval Traveller by Norbert Ohler

It presents how and where people travelled in medieval times, drawing on period/personal accounts.

About $35 on amazon.com or you might be able to find it in your local library.
 

neandermagnon

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My parents are avid hill walkers/hikers and my mum also used to run a local scout group. As a child/teenager I quite often would walk 10 miles in a day in the British countryside. I probably could've walked further if necessary, but I don't recall walking longer than that, but we wouldn't spend the whole day hiking. We'd walk 5 miles or so to somewhere, see the place, have a picnic, run around and have fun, then walk back home. So if I'd spent the whole day just hiking I probably could've done more than 10 miles. Also, this is through countryside, not pavement/tarmac/etc paths.

Incidentally, having done a 10 mile sponsored walk through London and got plantar fasciitis from it, I would say that walking in the countryside is easier and better for your feet than walking on concrete/tarmac. People tend to think that walking on paved roads is easier. In some ways it is (rough terrain will slow you down) but if you're hiking long distances, looking after your feet is essential and countryside is better for your feet. Damage to the feet - blisters would be the most common - will drastically limit you and while good blister plasters are an essential thing to have in your first aid kit, prevention is better than cure and hiking in new boots is a very bad idea. (Especially if like me you much prefer old fashioned leather boots like Doc Martens over modern trainer-like hiking boots, which AFAIK don't need to be worn in. The latter aren't always waterproof so be careful of them in wet climates. You don't want to feel like you're going to get trench foot after walking half a mile. Leather boots can be waterproofed with dubbin (traditional method) or waterproofing spray (modern thing) but need to be properly worn in before hiking anywhere.) If your story's about people having to make an unexpected journey on foot, they may not have have suitable footwear to begin with or may not have time to prepare it properly (e.g. if it's in the days before trainers were invented and everyone wore leather shoes) so foot problems would be rife and slow everyone down.

How used to walking people are will make a massive difference. The above is based on my experience as someone who's grown up doing hiking/hill walking. Most of the other kids I knew would probably have fainted at the idea of walking even a couple of miles. I used to walk 3 miles a day going to school and back and even though I suck at running, ended up running the 800m and 1500m (athletics) for my school because most of the other kids freaked out at having to travel those kinds of distances on foot. They're like "OMG that's running a whole mile!!!" *panic* and I'm thinking, "that's like running home from school, only a bit shorter". Also, that was back in the 1980s and many kids nowadays do even less walking. I think if these kids were to be taken on long hikes, they'd probably surprise themselves regarding how far they can walk but I doubt they'd manage ten miles the first time. Maybe 5 miles tops (with whining and panicking for the first mile or so).

Very small children (under 5) can be carried in specially adapted backpacks (they're like the baby carries only bigger and sturdier and are purpose built for the child to travel on the hiking parent's back) so children this young wouldn't limit hiking distance. Older children who aren't used to walking anywhere would be the limiting factor. However, if toddlers are actually walking, their little legs just simply can't match an adult's pace and while a 3-4 yr old might manage to jog along next to an adult walking at normal adult walking pace, they'll tire very quickly. Carrying a toddler in your arms is a lot more tiring than carrying one on your back so in that situation, so they would massively limit how far you could hike (hence the invention of toddler carrier backpacks for hiking families). You can make baby and toddler carriers using sturdy cloth if you know what you're doing.

I have a lot of experience of walking with toddlers as I have two kids, both of whom walked to places with me once they'd learned to walk well enough that they weren't falling on their bottoms every few strides. (I had a pushchair/stroller for trips that were time critical but mostly they walked.) By the time they're about 4-5 they can walk as fast as adults, albeit that they may tire more quickly.

When you say people with illness - it's not safe to go on hikes at all with most acute illness* and some long term illnesses will stop people being able to hike anywhere at all. You can't really say how much it would limit someone without knowing a lot more details about the individual and their illness. Elderly people may be slower (not necessarily, it depends how active they are, just like anyone else) and for people with disabilities it's far too individual to say and may depend on specific circumstances, e.g. the terrain.

*there's the neck rule... sick above the neck, e.g. stuffy nose, common cold = you can exercise and it might even make you feel better; sick below the neck, e.g. fever, upset stomach, chest infection = safer to stay in the warm and rest. If the story's in a context where they have to keep moving regardless (e.g. they're fleeing from danger), then other people may need to carry acutely ill people, which would slow everyone down.
 

Bolero

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OP - you mentioned Tolkein in passing - are you writing a medieval type fantasy?
If yes, then a lot of people in the medieval period were used to walking miles every day. That was true into the 20th century - there are accounts written of kids walking 4 or 5 miles to school and back home again. Also depending on money, it might be done barefoot. I remember talking to a older lady some years back who said that walking to a country school when she was a kid she always took off her shoes to be like her friends and only put them on when getting in sight of home and her parents.
Main difference I suspect is between town and country people as while town people would have walked they probably didn't walk as far as everything was on their doorstep.
 

WeaselFire

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8-10 miles a day on improved trails, 5-7 over broken but open terrain and 1-5 through dense jungle or swamp. This is without wearing people down to the point they have to stop for days or weeks to build reserves back up and while carrying 40-70 pound packs for average adult males. The time for long distances also depends on food supplies and what has to be carried versus foraged, as well as shelter options.

What do you need for your story? If they just travel for a month with no specified distance, just have them travel. If they have to travel 300-400 miles in that month, give them the appropriate terrain and supplies they need.

Jeff
 

Tsu Dho Nimh

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I'm talking about a group of people, a percentage of which are small children or sick or injured,

It boils down to how much you want to make them suffer.

How many?
What kind of 'sick and injured'?
How many of them do you want to abandon or kill off?
What are the terrain and wildlife threats?

One way to deal with a mixed-ability group is to send pairs of fast ones ahead to scout out the easiest route, then a group of strong ones to clear obstacles and improve the chosen trail. In rotation, so the main party always has some fast and strong ones.
 

L.E.N. Andov

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As a teenager I often went on hiking trips. We were all geared and mentally prepared for it. We paid some scouts to hide our water so we wouldn't have to carry it with us. We had maps and the trails had signs and markers all along the way. This is no where near roughing it. We felt good about pacing 7 miles per day on the Pisgah or the Appalachian.

I suspect your band of weary travelers can do 5 miles per day on average. Some days more, some less, some days you went down the wrong path and had to double back. Some days you were fed, some days a member fell. Sometimes a fallen was left to die alone. Sometimes their spouse or child refused to leave them.

Another thing that could slow you down are predators, internal conflict, weather etc.

I don't know of an app, but I think you might try google maps. Draw a line from point a to b. It's pretty accurate at telling you the distance. I used it to plan my vegetable garden :)