The American college situation

efreysson

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Let me start this my stating that I am well aware that it is easy to demonise any group by pointing out its most insane members, and to make a small group of loonies seem far more numerous and important than they are.

With that said, I have to admit to a certain anti-fascination with coverage of American SJW-types. People like this, and this. I'd like to hope this is just a weird fad among a small group of idiots who dwell in internet echo chambers, but I do see comments from people complaining about having to constantly walk on eggshells in a college environment, and knowing people to talk and behave this way.

And yes, I am also aware that there is no guarantee that a random internet comment-poster is telling the truth. But I'm curious, and I'd still like to risk embarrassing myself by asking if this level of insane hypersensitivity is an actual, common trend in American society and schools.

Any personal experiences?
 

anakhouri79

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I have none, as I haven't been in college in some time....yeah. But my brother-in-law's girlfriend is doing some sort of psychology class and working in a group. One young woman made an assertion that was incorrect, and GF pointed out she was wrong and found the proof in their textbook to show her. The woman burst into tears and ran out. The next class the professor had a talk with everyone about one student had been made to feel 'unsafe' in their group. Now, GF doesn't know it was this woman but by the way she was glaring at GF the whole time, she's pretty sure it was and she made her feel 'unsafe'.
 

efreysson

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I have none, as I haven't been in college in some time....yeah. But my brother-in-law's girlfriend is doing some sort of psychology class and working in a group. One young woman made an assertion that was incorrect, and GF pointed out she was wrong and found the proof in their textbook to show her. The woman burst into tears and ran out. The next class the professor had a talk with everyone about one student had been made to feel 'unsafe' in their group. Now, GF doesn't know it was this woman but by the way she was glaring at GF the whole time, she's pretty sure it was and she made her feel 'unsafe'.

Unsafe? Unsafe? That is... fucking insane.

What makes a person so sensitive that they run crying to teacher when someone corrects them, and has proof.
 

zanzjan

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I have to admit to a certain anti-fascination with coverage of American SJW-types. People like this, and this. I'd like to hope this is just a weird fad among a small group of idiots who dwell in internet echo chambers

First, "SJW" is a pejorative term fielded by alt-right assholes to undermine/denigrate people who believe in diversity and equitable treatment for all. "Weird fad" and "small group of idiots" is insulting as all hell.

No, that's not what college is like, unless you're looking at it through the highly-colored lenses of an an alt-right jackass who is still wallowing in his butthurt feefees about cis white heterosexual men no longer being the only people who count.
 

veinglory

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College is a place to investigate new ways to improve society. In my day that mainly involved communism and feminism. I am sure they have some new ideas about it now. It is also a place where individuals learn how to defend their position against all comers including the institution of the college itself. Some from the inside, others by lobbying or by protest. This is all as it should be.
 

fiammazzurra

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Honestly, most of this stuff is either exaggerated and coming from Actual Bigots who went on the defensive, or it's just kid drama through a new lens. Things like what anakhouri mentioned? That's just the same recycled Teenage Drama that shows up in high school melodramas time and time again, filtered through new easily-exploitable Social Justice Lingo.

Because like... most freshmen and sophomores in college are still teenagers. Your brain doesn't mature until you're 25, college is a Weird Confusing New Place that shoves a lot of SJ lingo in your face without explaining it first, and people exploit it to get what they want just like they'll exploit anything else. Shit like the scenario anakhouri79 described is just the adult version of "But she hit me FIRST!!!:" a relatively immature younger adult exploiting legitimate terminology and issues to get what they want or "win" an argument. That's what most of this is, except unlike the kiddie version, the adult version has the consequence of making society as a whole stop taking social justice seriously. It's really stupid.

Plus, social justice education is so shitty that most people using the terminology have absolutely no clue what they're actually talking about--see the trigger warning debate. Add to that the natural human instinct to get defensive and confrontational when your worldview is threatened, and you get...well, this nonsense.

It's also important to remember that like zanzjan said, "SJW" was a perjorative made up by the internet's extreme-right wing community, and most "UGH THESE RIDICULOUS PC SJW" complaints are made by Actual Neonazis who got called out for pretty good reasons. Most of the ridiculous tumblr posts in that link you shared were made by trolls trying to screw with these people, nobody is actually that over-the-top. As an Actual American College Student who spends a lot of time on tumblr, nobody is actually that ridiculous. There are some weird ideas going around, but NOTHING that's this out of control. You have to remember that you're only hearing about these things through the lens of the minority of people complaining about them--nobody writes articles about "wow, these HORRIBLE AMERICAN SJWs on TUMBLR took TIME OUT OF THEIR SCHEDULES TO POLITELY EXPLAIN THEIR BELIEFS TO ME AND HAVE AN ACADEMIC DISCUSSION!!!"

Sorry for writing a novella here, haha. I've just had a lot of experience with both sides of the situation.
 

Myrealana

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SJW - Social Justice Warrior.

I figure it's probably been around for a while, but it was during the Gamer-Gate fiasco that I first started hearing it used as an epithet.

It used to mean a person who campaigned strongly for inclusion, feminism and/or LGBT causes.

It has been coopted by men's rights campaigners to mean "bitch who doesn't defer to my superior male opinion."
 

DancingMaenid

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Tumblr has a large community of people who are either 1) very young and still figuring out how to be a good ally or 2) exaggerate intentionally as a joke or to troll people. I don't think Tumblr posts that could have been written by anyone are a great indicator of the culture on college campuses. I haven't seen it reflected much, myself.

Sometimes there can be a conflict between how older and younger generations approach issues of social justice and inclusivity, and you can see this on college campuses sometimes. But it's rarely just a generational thing and it's rarely a matter that's as simple as some people being right and others being wrong. And in reality, no matter how bold people are online, most people aren't as outspoken in real life. Most people don't like rocking the boat. And that's not always a good thing. It can be hard to find a happy medium.

I think there can be an issue where young people are learning a lot about inclusiveness and social justice online but don't always have a nuanced or mature understanding. So yes, sometimes a student might ask for trigger warnings based on a very simplistic view of what being triggered means, for example. But learning and maturing is what college is all about, and faculty should be respectfully guiding students. It's not like this is the only area where students might bring misconceptions or biases with them to college. There are students who are prepared to argue with their biology professors that evolution is a lie. There are students who will read a rape scene in a novel and argue that the victim was to blame. There are students who don't pay attention to the course content and make ridiculously false claims.

I think when there's a conflict with regards to inclusivity, it's often because a professor or administrator wasn't expecting it to come up and hasn't had to deal with the particular issue before. This is not actually a terribly difficult thing to address, but it's harder when there's a lot of hand-wringing about SJWs and "kids these days." To use the trigger warning example, I think there are some professors who are automatically suspicious of students who bring it up because there is so much stigma about students wanting to be coddled combined with a lack of familiarity with what triggering means from a mental health perspective. If a professor is familiar with the issue, it's easier to treat it like any other accommodation issue and establish reasonable limits.

I also think there's a problem with the media exaggerating things, and people in general reacting negatively because of existing stigma against mental health issues and efforts to support inclusivity. There tends to be an attitude in our culture that people should just "suck it up" if they're struggling and that minority groups shouldn't be given "special treatment." Society also loves to criticize younger generations. So harmless stuff like having therapy dogs to help students chill out for finals week or letting students list their preferred pronouns is sometimes maligned simply because it's seen as unnecessary. Aside from a lack of understanding with regards to minority groups, there can be a tendency for people to romanticize how things were when they were younger and resent the perception thatthe younger generation has it easier or cushier.

Don't get me wrong--there can be an issue with people misunderstanding social justice concepts, exploiting them, or taking an extreme or alienating position. This can be an issue in activist or diversity-related groups. But as someone who works for a college and is connected to diversity and inclusion-related work, I haven't witnessed this. I don't teach, granted, but in my experience everyone is pretty civil. There have been times when I felt a little out of touch with how some of the students feel, or times when I felt like I wasn't on the same page as my colleagues, but I wouldn't say I walk on eggshells. And I think it's important that we consider what will make the students feel included. The culture at other colleges may be different. But in my experience, students are engaged in a positive way.

SJW - Social Justice Warrior.

I figure it's probably been around for a while, but it was during the Gamer-Gate fiasco that I first started hearing it used as an epithet.

It used to mean a person who campaigned strongly for inclusion, feminism and/or LGBT causes.

It has been coopted by men's rights campaigners to mean "bitch who doesn't defer to my superior male opinion."

I'm not certain exactly how the term originated. Before the Gamergate and alt-right crowds got ahold of it, I saw it used more to refer to people who really are toxic within activist communities (like people who threaten others, attack people for very innocent mistakes, or take genuinely extreme views), but it's always been a bit meaningless since people who are prejudiced against social movements tend to see anything that's really different to them as "extreme," and without context, it's hard to know if someone means SJW in the sense of "This person said I was being homophobic and it offended me" or "This person told me to kill myself because I accidentally used the wrong term." And now it's more commonly used as an epithet against anyone who advocates for social justice.
 
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veinglory

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It's also the case that almost every professor and many sub-faculty tutors run their class with a high degree of autonomy. So there are literally hundreds of thousands of different ways classes are being managed, across a wide range of strategies. I am sure you could find actually valid examples of every kind of approach to difficult subjects, sensitivities, diversity etc.
 

Roxxsmom

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First, "SJW" is a pejorative term fielded by alt-right assholes to undermine/denigrate people who believe in diversity and equitable treatment for all. "Weird fad" and "small group of idiots" is insulting as all hell.

This sums up what my response too. I teach at a college, and I've never run into the kind of response linked in the OP to anything in my classes. I teach biology, so I get students whose religious and political beliefs are challenged by evolution and discussions of climate change, and some students have objections to the applications of genetic engineering and stem cell technology for various purposes, but I've never had anyone run out of the room in tears or complain that my class made them feel unsafe.

Disagreement with an opinion, even a dearly held belief, of course, doesn't make people unsafe. I think some have taken the concept (which was originally meant to create some on-campus environments where people who have been actual victims of things like sexual assault or of discrimination can discuss their experiences without being attacked, bullied, or talked down to and are applying it in ways that no one ever intended. Some are likely trolling (like the Trump supporters who say they need safe campus spaces now because so many people disagree with them). This happens with all kinds of issues, unfortunately.

Of course, there will always be people with mental disorders or illnesses on a campus. Sometimes these conditions can present as someone having an extreme sensitivity to certain topics or overreacting to feelings of frustration. We are expected to treat these people with respect and refer them to the appropriate resources as needed. There will also be people who try to stir up trouble by pushing the limits of an idea to see where it takes them (or to essentially "troll" their instructor or the campus policies). But I think these cases are pretty rare overall, and when they happen, they tend to get shouted, and sometimes misrepresented or reported, all over the internet as an example of how "political correctness" is ruining colleges and universities.

It's also the case that almost every professor and many sub-faculty tutors run their class with a high degree of autonomy. So there are literally hundreds of thousands of different ways classes are being managed, across a wide range of strategies. I am sure you could find actually valid examples of every kind of approach to difficult subjects, sensitivities, diversity etc.

This is also true. Academic freedom is very central to most colleges and universities in the US. There are some rumblings that this could be changing, with more administrative oversight over curriculum, and in my state, a desire by politicians to standardize course offerings, "student learning outcomes," and course content between campuses, and "streamlining" the process of getting a degree (meaning, imo, they want to cram all students into a one-size-fits-all educational package and turn college into a sausage factory that cranks out degrees as fast as possible).
 
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veinglory

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There is, however, a certain amount of irony in protesting that excessive 'safe space' is persecuting people unreasonable and making them feel unsafe. If you want people to be autonomous and robust in bdebate, this could best be demonstrating by modelling an autonomous and robust response--rather than sending one-sided anonymized accounts to third party commentators.
 

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I'd argue that the teach in the OP—if that's a real event—is not practicing sound pedagogy.

I also wonder if it's a faculty member or a T.A/grad student.

I've never seen anything approaching that level of, well, I'm not even sure what to call it—and I taught in affirmative action programs that deliberately encouraged student activism and civic engagement in things like literacy and supplemental tutoring for K-12 students.
 

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Another thing: the two sources linked in the OP are not exactly reputable or reliable news sources. The first one is in The Chive, a photo-entertainment website that doesn't cite or verify their sources and is known for their internet hoaxes. The second is a You Tube video, which lacks a broader context and may or may not portray what it claims to be portraying.

Both appear to be intended to be click bait and to generate outrage, and they fail many of the tests put forth in this excellent article: False, Misleading, Clickbait-y, and/or Satirical “News” Sources by communications professor Lisa Zimdars at Merrimack College.
 

mccardey

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Let me start this my stating that I am well aware that it is easy to demonise any group by pointing out its most insane members, and to make a small group of loonies seem far more numerous and important than they are.

Why do it then? Why repost stories with no context that are over a year old in order to ask if there is too much caution in colleges?

Why not just ask the question?
 

DancingMaenid

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With regards to safe spaces, it's important to keep in mind that some student groups are intended for communities that may have genuine safety concerns or may be intended for students to be able to engage in productive/respectful discussions. The LGBTQ student group I was a part of had rules against outing people or sharing their stories without their consent because some members were closeted or shared very personal things that they wouldn't have wanted spread around. And groups for people with marginalized identities can really become derailed if outsiders are taking up time asking very 101-ish questions, so there needs to be some structure.

When people hear references to classrooms being safe spaces, I think they tend to imagine a setting where no one can disagree or have honest discussions, and I'm sure some people do take it to that extreme. But college classes can have a lot of young people in them, some of whom haven't been exposed to the topics being discussed much, or had much contact with people of different backgrounds, and that can lead to uncomfortable situations. When I was 19, I mentioned I was bisexual in a class discussion where we were talking about sexual orientation, and one girl literally looked terrified of me. When she had to ask me for some notes from another class we were taking, she approached me really hesitantly like I was a vampire or something. Another guy would refer to my sexual orientation as my "situation" after that. I've been in classes where students talked about a rape victim in a literature assignment deserving it. I've been in classes where someone debated the professor on evolution or abortion rights. I took a sociology class where someone insisted that HIV was transferred to humans because people were having sex with monkeys. Some really uncomfortable stuff can come up in college classes that the students may not have much experience with, and one of the trickier parts of a professor's job is to play the moderator and make sure it's not getting out of hand.
 

Roxxsmom

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Note, the article I linked has some problems that have been pointed out to me as a source for BS detection. I think the overall point still stands, though. The internet is rich with sites that have articles that can't be verified or are presented out of context, or are out an out BS, and the purpose is to generate clicks or to promote a questionable (at best) agenda. We need to have our BS detectors engaged when we share links, especially when we're citing them as evidence for a position or for a concern we have.
 

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I think the overall point still stands, though. The internet is rich with sites that have articles that can't be verified or are presented out of context, or are out an out BS, and the purpose is to generate clicks or to promote a questionable (at best) agenda. We need to have our BS detectors engaged when we share links, especially when we're citing them as evidence for a position or for a concern we have.

There's a stickie in Activism Current Events and Hope that offers some suggestions.
 

jjdebenedictis

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First, "SJW" is a pejorative term fielded by alt-right assholes to undermine/denigrate people who believe in diversity and equitable treatment for all. "Weird fad" and "small group of idiots" is insulting as all hell.

No, that's not what college is like, unless you're looking at it through the highly-colored lenses of an an alt-right jackass who is still wallowing in his butthurt feefees about cis white heterosexual men no longer being the only people who count.

:Trophy: :Clap: :Thumbs:

Yeah, in my experience, the only people who think being a SJW is a bad thing are assholes trying to silence the people who fight back against assholes.

After all, social justice = civil rights.