Shotgun slug question

Yes, you absolutely can dig shrapnel or slugs out of objects for forensic analysis. I've never done it, but have several friends who have served in hazardous duty environments and have done this. I learned when asking what a particular bauble was they were wearing. I believe it would still just be called a slug. As for what it'd look like, a quick google search and found this:

CindyGirl said:

If a person fired a shotgun slug at a tree, could they use a knife to dig into the tree to retrieve any bit of it, to carry around as a good luck charm? What would this squashed slug?? be called at that point?

Thanks for any and all help.

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I've done this with shotguns, rifles and pistols literally thousands of times. A shotgun slug for a 12 gauge normally weighs 437.5 grains (one ounce) and travels at 1800 fps. They are made in different configurations and alloy make-up. Back when I was young, they were normally made of pure lead and expanded violently on very hard things like trees. Modern slugs are harder with more controlled expansion, in cases like Brenneke slugs, they are made to penetrate dangerous animals such as our largest bears and are carried by Alaskan guides.

So to answer your first question, yes, it could be dug out by a knife, but experience tells me to let you know an axe or hatchet would be much more expedient! To your second question, it's considered an expanded slug or projectile.

This is a subject I can write on at length, and in fact, used to write many magazine articles about ammunition!

Never retrieved shot ammo, but interested...

Bullet performance is everything. I learned more than you can imagine by firing different bullets and nose profiles, at varying velocities into ballistic media, or really, any media. It changes completely how you look at different styles, FB, JHP, FN, TN, SP, FMJ, Semi SP, etc when determining terminal performance.

Although with larger calibers, i.e., a shotgun slug, a perfect mushroom isn't always needed!

CindyGirl said:

If a person fired a shotgun slug at a tree, could they use a knife to dig into the tree to retrieve any bit of it, to carry around as a good luck charm?

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Yes.

CindyGirl said:

What would this squashed slug?? be called at that point?

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A slug.

Jeff

As others have said, yes you could... The amount of mushrooming or destructive expansion of the slug would vary according to range fired from and type of tree, a soft or pulpy tree would yield a better trophy than one fired into a hardwood tree. Just FYI

As JJ pointed out, it would depend on the ammo. Some are made of harder or softer materials and some are composites. If using soft lead you'd have a nice sort of mushroom shape if fired into soft dirt, (Ive dug many of those out of backstops) but would likely fragment if fired into a hardwood tree. Of course there are varying hardness to trees so it would depend on the tree as well, and probably also depend on the weather, not so much for the slug, but for the hardness of the tree. I think there are enough variables that if you don't go into specifics you could do whatever you want. Those who don't know won't care and those who do know and care will assume the specifics.

I might be missing something obvious, but don't shotguns fire shot-filled cartridges? Shotgun cartridges leave a metal base and a plug of some sort of wadding (looks a bit like cardboard) behind when the gun is fired, along with a bit of the plastic outer case, but those don't get fired: only the lead shot does. So you wouldn't be digging a single slug out of the tree if it was fired there by a shotgun: you'd be digging lots of little lead pellets out of the tree.

At least, that's how our shotguns worked.

slugs are single-projectile loads fired from a shotgun; Hack, you are correct that shotguns GENERALLY fire shot, but slugs are designed for larger animals and longer distances.

2 side notes: The photo above is a pistol cartridge and expanded bullet, and slugs now come in a range from like 200-grain sabot slugs to I can't even remember how heavy the old-style "12-bore lead" slugs got, but once upon a time all slugs looked like a large ball or pumpkin and they were very heavy but very inefficient. Now most modern hunting loads use a smaller bullet in a plastic sleeve which falls away on leaving the barrel, pretty much just like the wad in a shot charge.

quicklime said:

2 side notes: The photo above is a pistol cartridge and expanded bullet...

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Nope, that is actually a shotgun round. It's called the "Tango Shotgun Round."

Old Hack said:

I might be missing something obvious, but don't shotguns fire shot-filled cartridges? Shotgun cartridges leave a metal base and a plug of some sort of wadding (looks a bit like cardboard) behind when the gun is fired, along with a bit of the plastic outer case, but those don't get fired: only the lead shot does. So you wouldn't be digging a single slug out of the tree if it was fired there by a shotgun: you'd be digging lots of little lead pellets out of the tree.

At least, that's how our shotguns worked.

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That is normal for most bird hunting, OH, as quicklime mentioned. You are indeed correct, a shotshell is a an empty cartridge filled by first a powder charge, then plastic wad, filled with shot, then crimped. A primer is in the base, which the firing pin detonates. The shot, wad and burned powder fire outward, leaving the empty cartridge to be either discarded, or in my case, to be loaded once again. Simply push out the fired primer, add powder, wad and shot, crimp and you're back in business, for brevities sake.

In much of the eastern US, shotguns are the only legal weapon to use for deer and bear hunting. The area is more populated and high powered rifle cartridges will fly up to 3 miles if there is no backstop. To lengthen distances from 40-50 yards with traditional double-ought buckshot, slug technology has leapt ahead by leaps and bounds. No longer is it simply driving a pure lead slug down a smooth bore with a bead front sight and no rear. Now there are rifles slugs, rifled bores, using rifle sights. While they may sound like going the wrong way, it really isn't.

A hunter wants as clean a kill as possible. To be able to place the projectile as perfectly as possible into the kill zone, the rifled slug makes it that much more precise. Add a rifled barrel to any slug and it is yet more precise. Now add good adjustable rear sights, or a scope and you have a firearm that is still short ranged, perhaps 125-150 yards, yet is capable of fine accuracy. Incredible accuracy, actually.

In Alaska and many parts of Canada, Slugs are considered the best self-defense cartridge for dangerous game. Fisherman and hunters who are in constant close proximity to both brown and grizzly bear are recommended by Alaska F&G to use pump shotguns and slugs, specifically Brenneke slugs. They deliver over 3,000 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.

Is this where the expression "loaded for bear" comes from? Serious question.

Old Hack said:

I might be missing something obvious, but don't shotguns fire shot-filled cartridges?

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They can. And most shotguns can fire a rifled slug, often used for deer and big game, similar to buckshot. It's a single lead (alloy actually) projectile, usually with a pointed nose and usually some rifling built into it to make up for a shotgun not having a rifled bore. Stable, accurate and deadly to about 100 yards. Although restricted in some areas (California has non-lead requirements and there are a few alternatives), these are popular with deer hunters in a dedicated shotgun season, home defense (along with #00 buck shot) and indoor ranges, where the spread of pellets doesn't damage fixtures.

I have dug them from a tree, they often stay pretty intact though deformed. They don't mushroom like hollow point bullets (neither do lead bullets or full metal jacketed bullets either) but they do smoosh up somewhat.

My home defense shotgun is loaded with a round of bird shot, two buck shot and the rest slugs. The bird shot gets rid of non-human pests, poisonous snakes mostly, one pump and I can take out intruders. The slugs will penetrate walls better, though firing #00 buck shot is like firing seven .32 caliber pistols at once.

Jeff

PeteMC said:

Is this where the expression "loaded for bear" comes from? Serious question.

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No. Serious answer.

Curiously, the term "loaded for bear" doesn't actually have a firearms origin. It's a term for "ready to fight" and has been interpreted as someone being extremely angry, extremely prepared or drunk.

In Alaska, and some other regions, it has come to mean carrying a large caliber sidearm in an area where bear attacks, especially grizzly attacks, could reasonably occur. These are areas where Dirty Harry's .44 Magnum comes off as rather wimpy. Really popular are Ruger Blackhawks or Super Blackhawks in .454 Casul or .460 Ruger, and the S&W .500.

Although shotguns loaded with slugs can slow a bear down some.

Jeff

Gather around the campfire y'all - got an Alaskan bear story for ya. My dad was in Alaska pre-marriage days with his brother and has regaled this to me many times (it may have been embellished with time):

He and my uncle were hiking and my dad had a 22 rifle with him. They're out and about, clanging up a mountain with their backpacks and water bottles and stuff (this was in the 60's so a lot less populated back then). Going up the mountain, they stopped for the night about 2 hours short of dusk and made camp. In a distance, my dad saw a bear start lumbering toward them from about a mile or so away. The campfire was nearly going and at the sight of the fire and smell of smoke, the bear stopped.

Suffice to say, they kept the fire going all night long - not sleeping a wink. As day broke, they doused the fire and started hiking back down the mountain. The bear kept about 1000 yards off to one side, following them the entire way down. It was huge even from that distance. About a mile outside of town (I think it was Sitka...that's where he was stationed with the Army NG at the time), the bear veered off and went back up the mountain.

On getting into town, my dad took his 22 rifle to the local gun shop, traded it in (upgraded really) from that to a 44 cal pistol! Something told him there was no way in hell the bear would've even flinched from the peck of a 22 rifle bullet. Aside from surviving the earthquake of '64 (again, I think), he said that was hands down one of the scariest experiences he ever had.