Finger Printing and DNA

Purplesnow

Registered
Joined
Jul 22, 2016
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Hey Guys,

If I was an MI5 officer, would my DNA / Finger prints be kept on file?

If a dead body turned up and they had no idea who it was, is such information kept else where?

Thanks

Claire :)
 

cornflake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
3,734
Yes to the fingerprints -- I'd presume yes to the DNA but I'm not in England so check with someone else.

Is what information kept elsewhere from what?
 

Purplesnow

Registered
Joined
Jul 22, 2016
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
I've got a dead body and I need to find the ID, so I out the finger prints onto the computer to check the finger print data base. Does everyones finger prints go on this database. Or are things like that as in M15 officers finger prints saved on a different file so to speak...

Thanks
C
 

cornflake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
3,734
Ah.

There's not one db, there are several - IDENT, INTERPOL's (whatever it's called), there's an EU DNA database I believe and I think the U.S. looped in as well... I'm not sure how connected an individual ME office's system is, but I'd presume it'd be tied in, at least to locals.
 

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
10,297
Reaction score
3,859
Location
New Hampshire
Your answer gets to be very complicated because of security and privacy concerns. For example, the US military takes DNA from all members of the military. But this DNA is a private database, not available for any other purpose than determining the identity of military members who die in accidents and combat connected to the military. In other words, a soldier killed in a car accident will not be identified by the military's DNA database. However, the military's fingerprint file, by and large, is available in identifying someone.

Some members of the CIA and I'm assuming MI5 are not in any accessible database.

What does your story need? And there's not many people that know this stuff. I can present plausible scenarios in a lot of ways on this stuff.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

Purplesnow

Registered
Joined
Jul 22, 2016
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Hi Jim,


I've got a dead body, that has been found she has been murdered and all the nice things that come along with that. There is an ex MI5 agent is living in the place where the body is found, the body was basically dumped there to get noticed by the ex agent. So anyway I need the ex agent to find out who the dead body is. I wasn't sure how to do it. I thought if she is on the data base and then it gets leaked who she is that is one way of getting her ID out there.

I just need away for the ex agent to find out, as I was struggling with other ideas. :)

Thanks
 

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
10,297
Reaction score
3,859
Location
New Hampshire
Beyond the simple approach of giving her an ID, here's how I'd approach it.

Body found, murdered, and no sexual acts connected to the murder, and if I was an ex-agent, I'd be wondering what's going on. I'd get the ID photo from the autopsy (they'll take a picture for use in identifying the body in this sort of circumstance -- face from the front, hopefully not showing too much damage)(ex-agent who can't get this is useless -- there's got to be someone he can bribe for a copy) and then he sends it to someone at MI5.

That way you can keep the authorities confused and lost, while he finds out the answer in quiet.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

ironmikezero

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
1,737
Reaction score
426
Location
Haunted Louisiana
You're flirting somewhat closely to classified areas, so don't expect specifics. Jim has given you a reasonable and perfectly plausible direction to explore. Given the circumstances you've so far described, your MC will need to take advantage of personal contacts from his former professional life (agents/assets) who may have personal knowledge or access thereto that may lead to and /or corroborate the identification of the decedent. Crafting such a quid-pro-quo agreement among those shadow denizens of the underbelly of the intelligence community shouldn't be that much of a challenge for you--and it will only add to the intrigue of your tale. Whatever you decide, best of luck!
 
Last edited:

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
10,297
Reaction score
3,859
Location
New Hampshire
As Iron Mike says, you're close to or over the line into classified material on what MI5 uses for identification. I have a relative who did not work for the CIA. His parents were taken by bus to a secret graduation. My guess is his fingerprints were not in NCIC, unlike most Federal employees. And this is someone who would have been known within the intelligence community as someone who worked for the CIA.

Identifying a dead body is a lot tougher than most people think. Most bodies are identified by identification with the body. Photo ID is becoming somewhat common. Fingerprints can be good for quite a while, but that assumes someone is in the data bank. I am because of various jobs I've had. My wife is not. When a medical examiner runs prints, there's a significant likelihood of it not coming back. DNA is very rare to find in databases. The two biggest I know of that are available to medical examiners are criminals and missing people. A lot of time now with missing people, the police try to get DNA from a relative (parent, sibling, or child). DNA hits are very unusual and take a couple of months to come back to the medical examiner.

Usually if the fingerprints don't work, the medical examiner or police will circulate the photo of the individual (which may be retouched to make it look more lifelike) and a description of the clothing. At this point, the odds of the body being identified are becoming less and less. The photo will be circulated to compare with missing person files, but beyond that, there's not much you can do.

Anybody who is at all undercover is a suspicious person. That's how they survive. Dead bodies in the neighborhood are always going to make them nervous.

However, if someone is leaving the body as a warning to the agent, my guess the person is going to leave a way for the agent to figure it out.

Jim