Often don't/don't often

WSB · May 1, 2006

Great forum! Finally, a place where I can comfortably reveal my ignorance.

Here's something I keep coming up against in my writing, and I can't seem to wrap my mind around which is correct.

Is is don't often, or often don't? Examples:

We often don't realize how strongly our thoughts affect our moods. Or -

We don't often realize how strongly our thoughts affect our moods.

We often don't consider the consequences of our actions. Or -

We don't often consider the consequences of our actions.

Something about "often don't" seems contradictory, but sometimes the other way doesn't seem right either.

reph · May 1, 2006

WSB said:
We often don't consider the consequences of our actions. Or -

We don't often consider the consequences of our actions.

The two sentences have different meanings. (1) Often, we fail to consider the consequences... (2) We seldom consider... or We usually don't consider...

#1 is appropriate if we do consider the consequences most of the time. #2 isn't.

WSB · May 2, 2006

Okay, so either would be considered correct depending on my meaning? Sometimes it just doesn't sound right and I end up rephrasing the question to avoid it altogether.

Thanks for the input!

reph · May 2, 2006

That's right, both of them are grammatical. Choose the one that fits your meaning or say "We usually don't..." or "We may fail to..." or something else.

Rhythm plays a part in such decisions. "We don't often consider" sounds smoother than "We often don't consider."

fallenangelwriter · May 9, 2006

The way I've always interpreted it:

we don't often X= we rarely X. X= less than half the time

We often don't X= by default, we do X, but sometimes forget: X= more than half the time

it's a 60-40 split in my mind, with word order determining the direction.

smiley10000 · May 18, 2006

often is an adverb. Meaning it modifies a verb.

'do' is a modifying verb. It is used to attach the negative in English. By using both 'do not' and 'often' your sentence gets confusing. It would be better to search for one word to replace them.
For example:

We often don't realize how strongly our thoughts affect our moods.
may sound better as:
We often forget how strongly our thoughts affect our moods

We don't often realize how strongly our thoughts affect our moods.
may sound better as:
We rarely realize how strongly our thoughts affect our moods

HTH!
Happy Writing :e2BIC:

10000

Carmy · May 20, 2006

Try cutting it down to the bare bones. Which do you think is correct:

We don't.

We often.

Often don't/don't often

WSB

reph

Fig of authority

WSB

reph

Fig of authority

fallenangelwriter

smiley10000

What do we do? We write...

Carmy