Investigating a suicide

CJMockingbird · Oct 24, 2016

I like to be a stickler for small details in my work and this one has been bothering me.

I have a situation where a young woman leaps from her back porch into a pool. It's a story up. She ends up dead.

I've heard you treat all cases objectively and explore all avenues, so I'm wondering, when the police show up, how in depth are they going to go interviewing everyone on what appears to be a pretty cut and dry suicide? (On that matter, she was a few months along in a pregnancy, which only her brother knew about) Particularly, I'm guessing they would want to talk to my MC, since he was the last one to talk to her a few minutes before she died. He's pretty drunk at this point and they didn't argue, if that helps.

Basically I just want to know how much / if any time to cut away to the cops interviewing my MC because of his drunken state when they arrive.

cornflake · Oct 24, 2016

From what you've said, that doesn't really sound like a cut-and-dried suicide to me at all, though relevant details may be missing. It's also an odd and hard way to commit suicide, which makes it more suspicious. The way it's written here, I'm suspicious it'd even work.

Anything is going to be investigated. Someone not alone, who someone else says jumped off a balcony into a pool to kill herself? This is not a cut-and-dried investigation. Especially with the person there drunk?

That said, if they don't arrest him, you don't have to spend time with the cops if you're focusing on him. He can just walk away.

Gilroy Cullen · Oct 24, 2016

If it operates anything like the detectives around my area, all deaths are treated as a homicide until they have enough evidence to say otherwise.

So they will have a Crime Scene Unit there to check for prints, interview witnesses, assess the scene... etc.
So you say back porch... second story or higher? Pool depth where she landed? (Relevant for story details since a jump from second story into a 10 ft. pool would be better than a third story jump into a 4 ft. pool...)

jclarkdawe · Oct 24, 2016

Sounds more like an accidental death. Sounds like the victim might have been on some sort of substance. Even if it ends up suicide, the supplier of that substance can be in trouble.

If your MC is drunk, the cops could end up hauling him down to the station and placing him in protective custody. They're going to put a lot of pressure on your MC to explain what happened.

The police are going to want some strong evidence this is suicide. Even a note is going to have some problems. Most likely scenario is the victim was pushed.

Jim Clark-Dawe

frimble3 · Oct 24, 2016

Maybe homicide, maybe accident, but it seems a doubtful suicide method. From one story up, into a filled pool, seems more like a trick dive gone wrong than a suicide attempt. Like some kid jumping off the garage roof into a pool. You might die doing it, but you wouldn't be expecting that outcome.
To be sure of killing yourself, I'd think you'd want to be higher.

ironmikezero · Oct 24, 2016

Any/all unattended deaths are thoroughly investigated (treated as suspicious). Categorizing such a death (accidental/suicide/homicide) prior to a definitive finding by the appropriate authority (medical examiner/coroner) is strongly discouraged by all LE agencies--especially since the media tends to have way too much fun with such premature speculation.

As for suspects, everyone (with opportunity/motive/means/etc.) is considered a person of interest until corroborated evidence proves otherwise. It's all about the evidence--what you can prove--and its admissibility in court.

WeaselFire · Oct 24, 2016

ironmikezero said:
Any/all unattended deaths are thoroughly investigated (treated as suspicious). Categorizing such a death (accidental/suicide/homicide) prior to a definitive finding by the appropriate authority (medical examiner/coroner) is strongly discouraged by all LE agencies--especially since the media tends to have way too much fun with such premature speculation.

This. Of course, what do you need for your story? Used to jump off the roof into the pool all the time, one story and 3.5 feet at that end. Never got injured.

Jeff

cmhbob · Oct 24, 2016

It's possible to die from a 10-12 foot fall. But not likely, especially into a body of water. Olympic divers go in from 33 feet on a regular basis. Granted the water for those dives is pretty deep, but that kind of fall is not at all guaranteed to kill.

As a cop, I'd be suspicious right off the bat. Things that would make me less suspicious: major head injury with corresponding blood/hair/etc. on the pool deck; some sort of note in her handwriting; previously expressed suicidal thoughts (not always common).

They're not going to get much useful information form an intoxicated person. If I had reason to think he was involved, I'd take him into custody pending investigation. I'd run a breathalyzer at the station to document his condition, and put him in holding until he sobers up.

This is not going to be a short investigation.

jclarkdawe · Oct 24, 2016

cmhbob said:
This is not going to be a short investigation.

Toxicology reports won't be back for two months or more. No medical examiner is going to call this until then.

Personally if I saw major head injury on the deck I'd be more suspicious or be thinking it was accidental.

Suicide by jumping is almost always onto solid objects. Remember that the goal here is death, not injury or surviving. A real suicide wants a guaranteed death (which doesn't mean it always works). The more I look at this, the less and less I'm buying it. Even if this was from twenty stories up, you'd aim for the concrete, not the water.

Jim Clark-Dawe

cornflake · Oct 24, 2016

Except jumping from bridges - popular for suicide, water beneath (which reacts sort of like a solid if you hit it after leaping from high enough).

Roxxsmom · Oct 24, 2016

cornflake said:
Except jumping from bridges - popular for suicide, water beneath (which reacts sort of like a solid if you hit it after leaping from high enough).

Yeah. They've gotten plenty of jumpers from the Golden Gate Bridge over the years.

I thought that most people attempting suicide are at least somewhat ambivalent about living and dying? And don't some people attempt it a few times before they're finally successful, though it's important not to assume the person won't make a very serious attempt the first time they try? It seems like some do chicken out at the last second.

http://www.csun.edu/~vmd53178/misconceptions.htm

jclarkdawe · Oct 25, 2016

A lot of people jump from bridges, because it's a height we frequently deal with and tends to provide easy access. I should have qualified by saying that if a jumper has a choice between the hotel swimming pool and concrete, they usually choose the concrete.

Definitely a lot of suicides have a lot of ambivalence. But building jumpers, like train jumpers, tend to be low on the ambivalence scale. Bridge jumpers tend to have more ambivalence. It's also easier to aim for water, because it offers an apparently softer landing.

But in the scenario in question, she's jumping towards either water or something more solid. Jumping towards the pool is survivable and she probably has friends (more likely male) who've jumped from a higher height. It could be that this was meant more as a gesture that went bad, however. I dealt with someone who was an attempted suicide, who's "jump" was from the top of a six-foot culvert. It could have killed her, but it wasn't likely to, and my reaction has always been she was making a statement that did not really call for her to die.

Jim Clark-Dawe

CJMockingbird · Oct 26, 2016

Aw man now I feel dumb. Shows how much I know lol

Okay, the point is I'll basically have to change it to a suicide. Doesn't have to be jumping. I wrote that as an on-the-fly first draft to kill her for obvious revision, but it does need to be fairly quick (I would say 30 minutes tops). Basically, no one should find her and I want it to have a huge impact on my MC even before a certain twist is revealed.

I thought of maybe an overdose, but again, that would be a long investigation. I never planned on a note to be left, either. I'm kinda at a loss here.

It's an important thing in my book that she dies, but I really don't want to bog down the story with the cops and the investigation, especially dragging my MC away from more important matters. Is there any way I can avoid a long, drawn out investigation?

My MC still needs to be drunk for story reasons, he does still talk with her, but he isn't present at the time of the suicide.

I appreciate the help as always ^_^;

Also, Roxxs, I find it funny you mention the chickening out at the last second; this is what saves my MC later on during his own suicide attempt.

Bolero · Oct 26, 2016

Does she have to die at home?
Could she jump in front of a train with lots of witnesses? (Poor train driver.)
Could she be hit by a car by accident? (Drunk driver, mechanical failure, joy riders?)
Or in other words, can she die in a way that doesn't mean the MC is massively tied down by the investigation? Is it that you want to avoid a long investigation, or just a long investigation that ties down the MC?

Could be long illness in hospital, expected death, several doctors saw it happen.

frimble3 · Oct 26, 2016

If you want her dead, preferably death-by-falling, does she have to die alone?
Barbecue/pool party is going on, people have been drinking, playing in the pool, cannonball diving, etc. Your diver decides that she's going to go up on the roof and show off her diving skills. People see her, some shout "No!" and some shout "Go!", but she waves them off and dives. (No long pauses as though she was hesitating, or having second thoughts. It's just a drunken prank.) And misses the pool by inches. Slams her head on the edge, maybe slides in. But she's dead, accidentally, by her own hand, with lots of witnesses.

CJMockingbird · Oct 26, 2016

I appreciate the help, but her dying at the party is fairly important. Having my MC be the last one with her or discover her is also important because the girl's brother blames my MC for her death / why she kills herself. How she dies, except that it's by suicide, doesn't really matter.

I just don't want my MC tied down by it too much because I don't want to detract from the story. Following the death, my MC finds out the girl was pregnant and in turn drives his car into a tree. This has a million reasons I want it to happen, but mostly because I need my MC and his mother to see each other at the hospital (he avoids her at all costs). The attempt is because family is his life dream and losing a supposed child devestates him--later in the novel he has to face almost losing another child and it's part of his motivation as to not lose again. MC's future love interest/best friend is in the car with him also, which I really couldn't find a work around for, but I'm planning to make it have a signifigant impact on the MC/love interest's relationship.

Immediately after this it skips to their college years, mostly focusing on the Love Interest. I'm still working this out as I don't want it to really take away from my MC, yet it's important subplot... there book mostly switches between these two in omnipresent POV as well as another girl and my MCs brother's future wife. I know it sounds confusing, but I guess I'll find that out in the beta reader stage.

I appreciate the alternate deaths as well, and as I said, it doesn't have to be from falling, that was just a quick go to to get my chapter written for now, but I definetly can't do illness or self inflicted gunshot, at least, as those appear later with other characters and I would find it somewhat redundant.

cmhbob · Oct 26, 2016

Can you make it at a high-rise hotel then, rather than a house? That makes the fall height easier to fix. 2-3 rooms rented for the party, and she goes out the window of one when no one is looking, or after someone saw the two of them go in (but didn't see him come out, or go to the bathroom, or something).

CJMockingbird · Oct 26, 2016

I'm not trying to be difficult but I'd rather not change the setting. Seems easier to change the method at this point. If it's easier to keep her jumping, I could have her jump off a cliff (they live on an ocean bluff and I imagine it would be a huge drop to a rocky bottom).

cmhbob · Oct 26, 2016

That could work. She hits an outcropping or two on the way down....

jclarkdawe · Oct 26, 2016

Have her jump off the roof, drunk, and miss. It happens. If your character talks to the victim last, he's going to be popular with the police and your victim's brother can legitimately blame him for whatever he said. Depending upon what he says is going to determine where the investigation goes.

Jim Clark-Dawe

CJMockingbird · Oct 26, 2016

Jim, you're an amazing resource as always. ^^; I just don't feel leaping from the second floor porch (I don't know how she would get on the roof--is that a thing people do?) and missing would come off as intentional, which is really what I want... as stated, I feel that the investigation will slow down the book immensely. I suppose skipping ahead and explaining this and that would be fine, but what details are worth mentioning?

How long would it take for the investigation? I'm assuming a few months, assuming a month or so for a coroner's report, maybe 2 weeks? I only know highly inaccurate television.

What draws the line between innocence/guilty when they talk to my MC? He will tell them what went on, but he left and is with the Love Interest and a crowd of people at the moment of her death. There's no reason to suspect he shoved her or something like that, although what he said leading to her death, I don't know how to handle that here.

If I go this route, I'll probably have to have the police reveal the girl's pregnancy to my MC (its early so she isn't showing, but still). I'm sure I can work with that, but again I don't wanna waste time on police who only appear once / I could probably write it through dialogue, internal dialogue, or quick exposition, but again, I feel a bit lost.

jclarkdawe · Oct 27, 2016

Depends upon the design of the house, but a lot of them can have a flat roof, with relatively easy access. I don't know where this is set, so I can't comment on a particular style in your area.

If she goes around the party complaining about the significant other who dumped her, then discussed with your MC how she wants to end it all. She then goes half an hour later to the roof and keeps looking down. The party goers keep yelling jump and she finally goes. She yells "FUCK IT!" on the way down, but only a few of the witnesses report this accurately.

Police interview everybody, and come to the conclusion it was accidental, possibly suicidal. If they get enough evidence, they'll pretty much call it that evening, although the final ruling would be several weeks in the future.

MC, knowing she was suicidal, is easily blamed by the victim's brother.

Jim Clark-Dawe

CJMockingbird · Oct 27, 2016

Thanks, Jim. I'll keep that in mind and see how it goes. You've been extremely helpful ^^

Investigating a suicide

CJMockingbird

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Gilroy Cullen

Handsome servant of a redhead

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

ironmikezero

practical experience, FTW

WeaselFire

Benefactor Member

cmhbob

Did...did I do that?

jclarkdawe

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cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

jclarkdawe

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CJMockingbird

Bolero

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

CJMockingbird

cmhbob

Did...did I do that?

CJMockingbird

cmhbob

Did...did I do that?

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

CJMockingbird

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

CJMockingbird