worldbuilding question

Chandelle

Registered
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
35
Reaction score
4
Somehow I've gotten the idea that it's presumptuous to think people care about what I am writing about. I pushed past that a little bit and knocked out 75K words, of which 98% is plot and character development. My world building is very, very shaky, because it's the hardest part for me to get from my head to the paper. I just have a hard time believing people want to read it.

And of course, my beta readers are now asking for it.

I'm not sure what they want. I have the worlds in my head yes, but I can't tell how much to write. I understand the concept of no infodumps, and dribbling in backstory in small doses, but how to do I know how much worldbuilding to add? Or what part readers are actually interested in?
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
The advice of a beta reader is more valuable than gold, that doesn't mean you have to follow it. For me, worldbuilding is fun and tends to happen organically (to the point where I accomplish nothing). Different writers have different attitudes, some of my favorite writers have some distinctly crappy worldbuilding, and that's fine.

If you do want to up you worldbuilding game, I'd suggest just finding some prompts (which are everywhere) and following them, then see if that enriches your story with texture and details you didn't think of including before.
 

Richard White

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
2,995
Reaction score
606
Location
Central Maryland
Website
www.richardcwhite.com
Here's a little exercise you can do if you're 75K in - go through your manuscript and mark down ever village/town/river/creek/etc. you've mentioned up to now. Can you draw a reasonable map from this?
Then go through your manuscript and mark down the people who AREN'T your hero, their companions, and the bad guys and what their jobs are. Do they make sense, does your reader get a sense of what they do or are they simply "Spear Holder #3, 2nd from the right" or "generic bartender"?

What I'm getting at here is, you don't have to have a completely developed "world", especially if your entire story takes place in a limited geographic area, but at least the readers should get the feeling that it's all a part of a bigger something. People should feel like they have lives that went on and go on after the characters interact with them. Towns should feel like they have a reason to exist besides a place for the characters to rest and re-provision. Even something as the characters noticing a caravan unloading goods, or people unloading provisions from a flatboat give the hint that if you walked outside the village there'd be something there besides a blank canvas. Someone complaining about the damn tax collectors coming by again and what can King so-and-so be doing with all that money does two things - a now you've established a government with a king who has tax collectors and b) if nothing else, you've tossed out a red herring - if the king raising taxes has nothing to do with your story, it still may make your character go, "Hmm, wonder if that peasant is on to something or not."

Think about the things you encounter during the day - people talking about something that happened in the next county, people talking about visiting their relatives on the West Coast over Christmas break, a store advertising fashions from Paris, that's really all you need to help with the world building.

Just some food for thought.
 

Shivari

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
76
Reaction score
8
To add to Richard White's excellent advice, I'd suggest you pick up your favourite fantasy book. Study a few chapters (whole book might be a tall order), and note down everything that really has nothing at all to do with the main plot but is all background colour: people interacting, people working, architecture, nature (trees, plants, animals), weather... and so on.

Note how much of each chapter is background colour and how much is plot essentials. Note how much depth there is: does it just say "it was autumn and the trees were shedding their leaves"? Or does it wax lyrical about different leaf colours, berries on the trees, squirrels collecting nuts, etc?

By using your favourite book as a reference you'll get an idea about what you personally like: what type and level of detail suits you. This should then guide you as to the detail to put into your own worldbuilding.
 

Chandelle

Registered
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
35
Reaction score
4
All great ideas, thank you! I guess I really do tend to skim big chunks of this unless it's really interesting, but since multiple people have said they want more, I'll oblige. And I'll admit, my story could take place basically anywhere (generic background characters, check), so I do need to add in specific details. It's like I can view them in my mind, but can't get them written down.
 

Richard White

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
2,995
Reaction score
606
Location
Central Maryland
Website
www.richardcwhite.com
All great ideas, thank you! I guess I really do tend to skim big chunks of this unless it's really interesting, but since multiple people have said they want more, I'll oblige. And I'll admit, my story could take place basically anywhere (generic background characters, check), so I do need to add in specific details. It's like I can view them in my mind, but can't get them written down.

And world building can be as simple as this:

"Good evening, gentlemen. May I take your order?"

vs.

"Whatcha want? Ain't got all day here."

Even without describing the eating establishments, you can probably envision the different types of food/clientele/staff at each place just from those short sentences. Now, add in a little description of the tables or a couple of customers, and voila, you've created a solid place in your reader's heads.
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
Somehow I've gotten the idea that it's presumptuous to think people care about what I am writing about. I pushed past that a little bit and knocked out 75K words, of which 98% is plot and character development. My world building is very, very shaky, because it's the hardest part for me to get from my head to the paper. I just have a hard time believing people want to read it.

And of course, my beta readers are now asking for it.

I'm not sure what they want. I have the worlds in my head yes, but I can't tell how much to write. I understand the concept of no infodumps, and dribbling in backstory in small doses, but how to do I know how much worldbuilding to add? Or what part readers are actually interested in?

Maybe you could approach your worldbuilding a different way. Instead of thinking of it as (basically) stage-dressing and props and backstory, think of it as the entity that made your characters who they are. We are not just products of our genetics; we are products of the world we grew up in, from the government system in place down to the neighborhood we lived in. So much goes into shaping who are: culture, religion, relationships, politics, poverty, wealth, physical environment, war, peace, technology, geography...

What shaped your characters? How can you let it influence how they think, speak, and act? How can you show that?
 
Last edited:

Chandelle

Registered
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
35
Reaction score
4
Maybe you could approach your worldbuilding a different way. Instead of thinking of it as (basically) stage-dressing and props and backstory, think of it as the entity that made your characters who they are. We are not just products of our genetics; we are products of the world we grew up in, from the government system in place down to the neighborhood we lived in. So much goes into shaping who are: culture, religion, relationships, politics, poverty, wealth, physical environment, war, peace, technology, geography...

What shaped your characters? How can you let it influence how they think, speak, and act? How can you show that?

It's veering into Christian speculative fiction territory, so this is something I can definitely add more of. My MC was greatly shaped by her faith (and then lack of) but I don't really explain it.

And it's funny, I went back and looked for rivers and mountains, etc, and none of them even have names (planets are really the only geographic items that do). So I added them tonight, and that was fairly easy and I think made a huge difference.
 

Thomas Vail

What?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
506
Reaction score
57
Location
Chicago 'round
I'm not sure what they want. I have the worlds in my head yes, but I can't tell how much to write. I understand the concept of no infodumps, and dribbling in backstory in small doses, but how to do I know how much worldbuilding to add? Or what part readers are actually interested in?

If it's 98% done, let the beta readers read it, and see if there's any consistent feedback about worldbuilding being lacking. If your story works well as is, then you don't need to agonize about having to cram in more expository detail.
 

Mary Love

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
1,586
Reaction score
642
I'd suggest you pick up your favourite fantasy book. Study a few chapters (whole book might be a tall order), and note down everything that really has nothing at all to do with the main plot but is all background colour: people interacting, people working, architecture, nature (trees, plants, animals), weather... and so on.

Ooo, I recommend Way of Kings. Brandon Sanderson set out to write the most epic gripping fantasy when he wrote that. His world building is extensive. Slightly excessive at times, I felt, but my brother would vehemently disagree. So it depends on what you enjoy, both reading and writing. If it's in your head and you want to get it on paper, work at it. If not, keep it in your head. Tolkien spent years world building before putting pen to paper and starting the biggest fantasy ever--that much time plotting would drive me nuts!
 

mccannx

Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
my thoughts, when you discuss worldbuilding - to me it means very different things depending on whether you are in the fantasy or SF space. As a huge fantasy fan, I will tell you that I am always interested in systems of magic. What is available, how well is it understood, and what is the price you pay for "magical talents." I am afraid to say much in the SF space (because I have read so few in the SF genre), but my impression is that there is similar type of interest in technology - i.e. what empowerment is provided by technology, who has access to it, etc. Hopefully a SF fan can clarify more. My thought is that the examples in the previous posts are are interwoven with the underlying technology and magic (and religion , geography, etc.). I would summarize by saying, find out what the fans of your type fiction are excited about, and weave in aspects of that (again, the above posts have excellent examples of places to organically sprinkle in these delicious details). Best, Joe
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,130
Reaction score
10,901
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Maybe you could approach your worldbuilding a different way. Instead of thinking of it as (basically) stage-dressing and props and backstory, think of it as the entity that made your characters who they are. We are not just products of our genetics; we are products of the world we grew up in, from the government system in place down to the neighborhood we lived in. So much goes into shaping who are: culture, religion, relationships, politics, poverty, wealth, physical environment, war, peace, technology, geography...

What shaped your characters? How can you let it influence how they think, speak, and act? How can you show that?

I was going to suggest something similar.

For instance, readers can learn a lot about how religion works in your world from the attitude different characters have about their gods and from the little rituals they engage in and so on.

You can portray a lot about the economy from the things your characters have access to and their attitudes about them. And you can get social norms across by the little things people take exception to or tease one another over.

And magic, if you have it in your world. What is it used for and how do different people think about it? What does it cost its users? This can be shown in action, rather than told in narrative outtakes.

When world building falls apart in some fantasy is when things become incongruous. For instance, a world where religion seems to be institutionalized and important, yet none of the main characters give it so much as a passing thought, and this isn't an act of rebellion or a conscious rejection of the status quo. Or a seemingly medieval world with peasants and nobles and knights, yet there's a robust middle class that lives better than lords did in the real middle ages, with china tea services and sugar and silk underthings and homes that are far nicer than any medieval castle. This would suggest the presence of a very developed level of trade, if not active colonialism.

Or a world where magic is powerful, and fairly ubiquitous, but everyone thinks of it as something of beauty and wonder and never as a weapon or a menace (except on the battlefield). Think of all the fear and disagreement about firearms in our own world (because they can be hidden and kill quickly and at a distance). Mages would certainly be scary. People have been scared of magic in many cultures that believe in it, even when it was limited (in their perception) to soothsaying and ill wishing. Imagine if someone could call fire from thin air or blast someone with a flick of their fingers, and imagine if such talent were fairly common.

Of course, some of it depends on the type of fantasy as well. Whimsical, fairy-tale worlds aren't held to the same standards as stories set in more serious, internally consistent settings. And some fantasy elements are beloved because of the aesthetics or coolness of them, rather than their realism or internal consistency.
 

Chandelle

Registered
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
35
Reaction score
4
I should have been specific. It's science fiction, and it's mostly character driven, because as an engineer, I have zero interest to write about...work. Still, I see what they're saying. Back to it tonight, I guess.
 

mccannx

Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
every good story is at the heart of it character driven. as for the technology, think about writing a contemporary story - every major city has an airport and citizens can fly from city to city (but it is expensive, so most people don't fly on planes every day. You don't have to write about how planes work, other than that can fly. If you look at Ender's Game, Orson Scott Card seamlessly integrates the technology in such a way as you don't even notice it. They can fly from planet to planet on spaceships, the games they play in battleschool are altered based on the technology they give them, etc. I think you get more into it as characters visit unexplored planets or especially if they are setting up colonies on them.