business principles

ATP

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[ I checked the forum archives but nothing came up in relation to my query].

From someone who has no experience in the book world, but is a business writer...

It is often reiterated that an agent does not charge a writer in any shape or form for the agent's services, and that any costs the agent incurs are recouped at sale of the manuscript.

My question is thus:

How is a legitimate, non-fee charging agent able to manage their business, given the inherent risk, and the slow rate of income/cash flow?

ATP
 
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jchines

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Disclaimer: My experience is with fiction. Folks on the non-fiction side might work a little differently, I don't know...


1. By only choosing works they think they can sell. Even if they love a project, if there's no chance of selling it, many agents would pass.

2. Postage, photocopying charges, and other routine expenses will be deducted from the advance you receive when your book sells. If the book doesn't sell, you don't get charged. But if it does, the agent recoups that cost.

3. 15% cut of your advance. If you get a $5000 advance, the agent just brought in $750. For more established writers, making $10,000 or more, the agent's cut goes up proportionally.

4. Foreign sales. As I understand it, this is usually done as a 20% cut of any foreign advance. Your agent gets 10%, and the overseas agent they work with gets the other 10%. My advances on foreign sales haven't been as big as the original English sale, but there are more of them :)

5. Numbers. It can take a while to sell an author's project, and it can take the author a while to write it. But if you have a client list of 20 or 30 reliable, successful authors, it adds up pretty nicely.

6. By being dang good at what they do. I couldn't do it. I'm not organized enough to stay on top of that many different projects and authors and editors and the rest. Fortunately, my agent is.
 

ATP

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This is the general situation as relates to fiction. But, for any business operator who hangs out his shingle, obtaining and building a client roster/list can take quite a bit of time. I would surmise in the order of 6 months, to take a figure of the top of my head, without any knowledge of the industry/point of reference.


So, in effect, there might be no business for 6 months. I presume an agent maintains an office separate from his home, and pays rent, perhaps one or two staff etc. These are common operational expenses, which occur for most any business. So, how is an agent meant to operate his business? I would guess that in starting out, the agent must either utilise his own money to support himself during the initial phase, or be sponsored by another/s. Correct?

ATP
 

victoriastrauss

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ATP said:
So, in effect, there might be no business for 6 months. I presume an agent maintains an office separate from his home, and pays rent, perhaps one or two staff etc. These are common operational expenses, which occur for most any business. So, how is an agent meant to operate his business?
The same way as any other person who establishes a new business. By creating a business plan, and either using his/her own financial resources to support the startup or getting a loan.

If an agent has what it takes to succeed, s/he will start making sales to advance-paying publishers within six months to a year. At that point, she has a regular income stream to offset expenses and debt. Still--as with any business--I imagine it takes a while to become profitable. And--again as with any business--I imagine that financial fluctuations can lead to hard times, or even to the agency's failure.

- Victoria
 

Jamesaritchie

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ATP said:
This is the general situation as relates to fiction. But, for any business operator who hangs out his shingle, obtaining and building a client roster/list can take quite a bit of time. I would surmise in the order of 6 months, to take a figure of the top of my head, without any knowledge of the industry/point of reference.


So, in effect, there might be no business for 6 months. I presume an agent maintains an office separate from his home, and pays rent, perhaps one or two staff etc. These are common operational expenses, which occur for most any business. So, how is an agent meant to operate his business? I would guess that in starting out, the agent must either utilise his own money to support himself during the initial phase, or be sponsored by another/s. Correct?

ATP



Like any other business, an agent with any sense doesn't open an agency unless she has operating capital. Most peope you hire to do a job get paid because they do a job, not because they try to do it. You don't pay someone for trying to mow your yard, you pay them for getting the grass cut.

This is even more true of people who work on commission. A car salesman does not get paid for trying to sell a car, he gets paid for selling it. A door to door salesman does not get paid for trying to sell vacuum cleaners, he gets paid for selling them. Agents are commission workers. They don't get paid for trying to sell a novel, they get paid for selling it. Period.

Nearly all start up businesses have a large inherent risk and severe cash flow problems for the first year. Sometimes for the first three or four or five years. This means anyone who starts a business either needs a reserve of cash large enough to carry them until they begin making a profit, or they need a secondary souce of income large enough to do the same. Being an agent does not mean you can't also have a job elsewhere. I've known several agents who worked a graveyard shift while strating up their agency. Most businesses, even small ones, need tens of thousands, minimum, before opening their doors, or they'll probably fail.

So how an agent stays in business until the profits grow large enough to suppose the business is the same way all other business owners do so. She either waits until she has enough money in the bank to carry her for at least a year or two, or she has a secondary souce of income large enough to do the same job.

Now, a new agent does not need an office away from home, any more than a writer does. This is usually a needless expense for a new agent. Agents do no walk in business, and a home office works just fine. All teh agent needs is a separate phone line. Nor do many start up agents have a staff of any size. You don't need staff until you have something for them to do that you can't do yourself.

Most often, start up costs aren't all that much larger for an agent than for a writer, and going full-time takes pretty much the same resources for either.

And like writers, not all agents work full-time as agents. Just because a person becomes an agent does not in any way mean she is SOLELY an agent. She may well be working evenings at a local pub, or graveyard shoft at a local factory, etc. A blue ton of agents have second jobs until and unless the agency starts making enough money to let them work only as an agent. Some pretty darned good agents never get rid of the second job, just as some pretty darned good writers never become full-time writers.
 

ATP

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Hmmm. I understand that the author 'system' is now something of the following - the few bestseller/top money earners, then the more in number
mid-listers, and again, perhaps even more in number the 'new' writers.

And, I presume, the agent 'system' closely corresponds to that of the author 'system'. Some reflection indicates a possible formula for the agent: number of authors x regular sales x foreign sales x film rights sales.

Therefore, if this is the case, then a question arises. What is the difference in the band between what a mid-list agent might earn per annum, and
that of a best-seller/top money earner agent?

If this is the correct understanding of the agent side of the industry.

ATP
 

Cathy C

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I don't think there's any way to judge that, ATP. The income is going to fluxuate wildly over each year. But our agent is a "top" agent, with multiple megasellers on her list (sadly, I'm not one of them... ;) .) Just watching Publisher's Marketplace of the clients I KNOW she has (so not counting the probably large number of clients I'm not aware of), she's comfortably earning in the high six to low seven figure range for her commissions. I would think that a mid-level would earn in the high five figure to low six-figure. But like I said, it only takes one book to rocket to the top out of the gate to turn a mid-level into a top agent. An author could also have a mega-flop book that makes the next one difficult to sell and commissions the following year for that client will drag.

If that makes sense... :Shrug:
 

Jamesaritchie

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ATP said:
Hmmm. I understand that the author 'system' is now something of the following - the few bestseller/top money earners, then the more in number
mid-listers, and again, perhaps even more in number the 'new' writers.

And, I presume, the agent 'system' closely corresponds to that of the author 'system'. Some reflection indicates a possible formula for the agent: number of authors x regular sales x foreign sales x film rights sales.

Therefore, if this is the case, then a question arises. What is the difference in the band between what a mid-list agent might earn per annum, and
that of a best-seller/top money earner agent?

If this is the correct understanding of the agent side of the industry.

ATP

A midlist agent isn't going to earn anything like the money a bestselling writer earns. Now, an agent who represents Stephen King may earn somewhere between six and eight million dollars per year from him alone. This is pretty good money for anyone.

Another agent may have fifty selling writers, but earn no more than $45,000-60,000 from all of them. Other agents land all over the place between these two.

Of course, an agent without the talent and experience to spot a novel publishers will want to by on a routine basis, or who constantly submit really bad novels to publishers, may earn very little or nothing at all.

Agents earn all over the board, and how much an agent earns is directly tied to how good, or how lucky, she is at spotting writers who can land on the bestseller list. But an agent can make a pretty decent living just by being able to spot writers who can sell a novel year in and year out, even if they never hit the bestseller list.

And, of course, the bigger the names of your clients, the fewer clients you need to give you a great income. The smaller the names of your clients, the more clients you need to give you a great income.

Much like writers, an agent's fate is largely in her own hands, and depends a great deal on talent level and work ethic.
 

aruna

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Jamesaritchie said:
Now, a new agent does not need an office away from home, any more than a writer does. This is usually a needless expense for a new agent. Agents do no walk in business, and a home office works just fine. All teh agent needs is a separate phone line. Nor do many start up agents have a staff of any size. You don't need staff until you have something for them to do that you can't do yourself.

Most often, start up costs aren't all that much larger for an agent than for a writer, and going full-time takes pretty much the same resources for either.

.

Right. My first agent was a start-up. I found her when Writers' News ranan article about her, and she took me on right away (this was for my very first book, which never got published).

She worked from home, which is where I went to see her, in North London. Her living room was her office.
She was collecting clients when I met her, and had just signed Kate Atkinson for behind the Scenes at the Museum. A year or two later, that book won the Whitbread First Novel Prize, and no doubt royalties shot up after that. Kate is now established, with several books to her name, and the agent still in business. I suspect it was Kate who brought her through those first years.

She spent a huge amount of time helping e with my first novel; in fact, she taught me writing, for free. I felt so guilty afterwards I considered paying her voluntarily, after I sold my first novel, through another agent!
 

aruna

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Cathy C said:
But like I said, it only takes one book to rocket to the top out of the gate to turn a mid-level into a top agent. An author could also have a mega-flop book that makes the next one difficult to sell and commissions the following year for that client will drag.

If that makes sense... :Shrug:

Christopher Little was a midlist agent. Then along came a certain JK Rowling...
 

Jamesaritchie

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agents

aruna said:
Christopher Little was a midlist agent. Then along came a certain JK Rowling...



Great point. And 15% of Rowling's income from a single book is far more than enough to make a person wealthy for life.