People without legal documents, identity theft, and other shenanigans...

Silva

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Just thought I'd post here and make sure I've got my i's and t's dotted and crossed, respectively, if anyone has some feedback. :)


One of my characters is trying to establish the legal identity of a someone he's supposed to hire. He works privately, as a civilian, for an influential person with government connections (which he generally prefers to not take advantage of), and I would like to make sure that the sort of sleuthing he's doing is feasible for someone in his position and the logical sort of thing an experienced (and somewhat paranoid) person in his position might do (and won't turn off knowledgeable readers).

He has the person's name, her picture (one he personally took of her, not a picture ID), a general sense of how old she is but not a precise birth date, and no legal documents (birth certificate, SSN, etc.) to use for proof of identity. She says her mother probably has them, if anyone does, and gives him the name of her mother, but claims to not have any other information on her mother or any idea where her mother might be (or even where she used to be, such as an old phone number or address; not even general information such as which state), and indicates that she hasn't seen her mother since she was a child ("decades ago"). She says her father has never been in the picture and that she has no other family that she is aware of. (Feedback on what other questions he might ask is appreciated; keeping in mind that they are not really on friendly terms with each other.)

My character doesn't have much choice about hiring her, but feels compelled to make it as legal as possible, so he wants to establish her identity (and hey, if he can find dirt on her that kicks her out, that's icing on the cake). He believes she is withholding information, and guesses that the information she's keeping back is a history in foster care and/or her mother has a record, based on the fact that she last saw her mother when she was (presumably) too young to remember anything else, but that hunch doesn't pan out/can't effectively be pursued without further information. He then checks missing persons, where he finds her and her mother. He tracks down information for her grandfather, whose name is associated with the report (both were minors and living with him before going missing) and discovers that the grandfather has a history of domestic violence (police reports) and is associated with an unsolved double homicide investigation dating back to a few years after the missing report was filed-- presumably the bodies found were the mother and daughter, but there was no positive ID and the grandfather was not convicted (chatty local people, or possibly the grandfather himself reveal that). Based on all the above, plus a photo of the mother, who doesn't at all resemble the woman's he's dealing with, he suspects she's using a stolen identity.

Y/N this works?
 

cornflake

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Wait - she's an adult with NO identification, no SSN, no driver's license, school IDs, no credit card, no bank account? She owns no car, rents or owns no home? Renting maybe, with a specific property and a good sob story, but still, someone that blank is highly unusual.

He checks the missing persons records where? The grandfather has records out of where?
 

WeaselFire

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By the way, in the US, that person can no longer be employed. If you cannot prove your residency and citizenship, you cannot legally be employed. If you cannot provide a social security number, you cannot legally be paid. So he either hires her for cash under the table or sends her on her way.

Jeff
 

jclarkdawe

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If she's using a stolen identity, then she has the documentation/information to support that stolen identity.

The person is completely unemployable, and the person employing her would be subject to significant legal consequences. My guess is that if the police became aware of the situation, the person would be charged with some sort of charges, including the possibility of aiding a terrorist.

A person without any provable ID can be held by the police until such time as their ID can be proven. Assumption is that the person is illegally in this country. People with total amnesia that cannot be cured are held until such time as the doctors can verify that the patient is suffering from amnesia that severe. This is exceedingly rare.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 
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Silva

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Wait - she's an adult with NO identification, no SSN, no driver's license, school IDs, no credit card, no bank account? She owns no car, rents or owns no home? Renting maybe, with a specific property and a good sob story, but still, someone that blank is highly unusual.

He checks the missing persons records where? The grandfather has records out of where?

Missing Persons in the U.S. is a public database, nationally and per state. The grandfather's records are in Idaho.

Her mother joined a cult when she was an infant and she grew up not going to school and being afraid of the government/general public. She does have a birth certificate and a social security number, but doesn't have access to them and doesn't have the necessary papers or knowledge to request new ones. She's been homeless most of her adult life and only done jobs for cash before. With no birth certificate or SSN, and being disconnected with everyone you grew up with who can vouch for your legal existence, it's practically impossible to legally exist in this country. Certainly you wouldn't be able to get a driver's license or own property.

I grew up on the outskirts of an ideological community full of kids who were not given SSNs when born because it was the evil stamp of government on your forehead (blah blah blah) and establishing a legal identity has been incredibly difficult for them. The ones that don't have family or childhood friends of the family willing to work with them are pretty much screwed, unless they're willing to maintain the lifestyle they grew up in (which is, of course, what their parents intend to happen). Many of them were born at home, not at a hospital, and not all midwives their parents would have worked with were conscientious about paperwork either (being people who held similar religious views), especially back then. Though, even now, it's still perfectly legal to deny your newborn a SSN (at least in many states, perhaps not nationally though I don't know).

I grant that my fictional scenario may seem unrealistic to many who aren't from/aware of that culture.


By the way, in the US, that person can no longer be employed. If you cannot prove your residency and citizenship, you cannot legally be employed. If you cannot provide a social security number, you cannot legally be paid. So he either hires her for cash under the table or sends her on her way.

Jeff

Precisely. He's been told to hire her under the table but is putting in the effort to get her the documentation to make it legal because he doesn't prefer to do illegal things. And if he can find a way to convince his employer to cut her loose, even better. In the end, though, he's indebted to his employer and doesn't feel like he has much wiggle room (he certainly would not consider it appropriate to go to the police, nor would he quit his job).

If she's using a stolen identity, then she has the documentation/information to support that stolen identity.

The person is completely unemployable, and the person employing her would be subject to significant legal consequences. My guess is that if the police became aware of the situation, the person would be charged with some sort of charges, including the possibility of aiding a terrorist.

A person without any provable ID can be held by the police until such time as their ID can be proven. Assumption is that the person is illegally in this country. People with total amnesia that cannot be cured are held until such time as the doctors can verify that the patient is suffering from amnesia that severe. This is exceedingly rare.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Maybe stolen identity isn't the right term then? He believes she's using a name/claiming an identity that is not actually hers. An alias, perhaps? Though the name is associated with a real person who is probably dead.
 

jclarkdawe

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So your story is about someone who is living off-the-grid wanting to rejoin the grid? At least having a friend having her rejoin the grid.

Like virtually everything in life, there's a process for that. A very little known procedure can be done through probate court. It involves taking whatever information the person can supply, finding supportive information such as the police department for the area saying that they know about the off-the-grid place and know that children's births are not recorded. These cases might be sealed by the court, but if not, asking your local probate court to go through files involving this issue would give you the best insight into what is needed.

It's a big pain in the butt, is very time-consuming, but can be done.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

cornflake

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I was asking where/what missing persons they were searching, yes. I didn't mean it was impossible (or illegal) to live that way (not legal to employ people in most circumstances that way but you don't have to have state-issued ID or SSN, you just can't do things you need them to do), just that most people don't see the larger implications of it.
 

Silva

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So your story is about someone who is living off-the-grid wanting to rejoin the grid? At least having a friend having her rejoin the grid.

Like virtually everything in life, there's a process for that. A very little known procedure can be done through probate court. It involves taking whatever information the person can supply, finding supportive information such as the police department for the area saying that they know about the off-the-grid place and know that children's births are not recorded. These cases might be sealed by the court, but if not, asking your local probate court to go through files involving this issue would give you the best insight into what is needed.

It's a big pain in the butt, is very time-consuming, but can be done.

Jim Clark-Dawe

With a kicking and screaming sort of attitude, but yes.

That is very interesting information and not something I knew before. Thanks.
 

Silva

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I was asking where/what missing persons they were searching, yes. I didn't mean it was impossible (or illegal) to live that way (not legal to employ people in most circumstances that way but you don't have to have state-issued ID or SSN, you just can't do things you need them to do), just that most people don't see the larger implications of it.

Okay, sorry about the information overload, then. :tongue
 

King Neptune

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Actually, her situation isn't very unusual or difficult to get through. If she knows where she was born, then she can request a copy of the birth certificate; although they are slow to issue copies to people without some kind of ID. With that in hand she can get everything else. For te employer to get a copy of the birth certificate would be rather difficult.
 

jclarkdawe

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The employer is almost definitely going to not get the birth certificate. Most states have laws involving this sort of stuff.

If she has someone to testify to her birth, getting a subsequent birth certificate is relatively simple. Unrecorded births have been recorded more than 100 years after the fact. By the way, family Bibles and other documentation such as that is evidence of a birth.

If no one is willing to testify to her birth and there is no records, she's going to need to get a court order for compelling the State to issue a birth certificate.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

Silva

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Birth certificates aren't public record until after 100yrs in Idaho, which is where she was born (though she doesn't know that at first), so definitely he wouldn't get access to hers except through her. He has to convince her to work with him on that front.