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View Full Version : Killjoys - Beware of Spoilers



dirtsider
06-22-2016, 08:17 PM
I've just started binge watching Killjoys and I love it. I saw part of one ep last year when it aired but didn't stick around to watch the whole thing. The premise was (and is) interesting (interstellar bounty hunters). While I would've like a longer season, I do like the fact that the short season (only 10 eps) allows for higher production values, imo. It's definitely a show I'll watch more than once (yay DVD's) but right now I'm just watching it for the overall plot. The details can wait for second (multiple) viewings.

The second season starts July 1st.

(mods: if there is a similar thread, please feel free to combine them.)

dirtsider
06-29-2016, 04:31 PM
The first episode of the new season is tomorrow. Can't wait to see how they resolve the cliffhanger from last season's finale.

dirtsider
07-05-2016, 08:09 PM
Enjoyed the episode on Friday. They had an interesting way of setting up a broader situation through D'Avin's visions while they were 'processing' him. I wonder if the reason why it went the way it did has anything to do with what Dr. Jaeger did to him prior to the first season. That and how that process is related to Level 6 - is it in reaction to Level 6 to create something similar or a way to fight those who are Level 6? It sounds like people are interested in and/or worried about Level 6 Killjoys.

And Khlyn is now more of a piece in the jigsaw puzzle that is Dutch than a target for her wrath or a father-figure for her to run away from.

dirtsider
07-12-2016, 09:14 PM
A lot of spoilers..... Read at your own risk...


The new antagonist (Company-wise) is sooo obnoxious. :lol: The actor really played the role well. I think in all the reviews I've read so far, there seems to be a lot of hate for the character. But it's good to have Pree back in his bar, the Royale. The 'new' owner's encounters with the Killjoys and Pree provided some of the most comedic moments in the episode, which is nice. Not for the character, though. :lol: I love the fact they're fleshing out Pree's background and he's not the lovable, laid-back bartender he appeared to be in season 1.

But the mirror bit in the beginning was very creepy. Lots of questions there. Did it really happen or was it only in Dutch's mind? If it really happened, what was it?
There are sooooo many questions involving who and what Dutch is and how much Khlyen knows/is holding back? Is he her father or just a father figure? Why did he save/mentor her?

What's with the memories/visions D'avin had while in Level 6's/Red 17's hands? Alvis stated that the Scarback order hadn't been on Arkyn for 200 years. Khlyen himself stated the information/images were very old in the last episode. Can't wait to see what happened to Red 17 as Turin (so glad he's back) told the Killjoys Khlyen's people had it leveled (pun intended).

Also loved the fact that the Killjoys have to 'work' with Turin, off the books so to speak. He knows something's going on. He knew it back in season 1 and thought Dutch was a part of it since she was on some sort of watchlist for recruitment. And he would have seen things, being in charge of the RAC. Now that he knows that she's not 'working' with them (Red 17/Level 6, that is), he has people who are just as interested in finding out more as he is.

Another thing, who are the Black Root? Is that something related to the vision D'avin had regarding the fight between the Scarbacks and the woman with Dutch's face and the people ~she~ was with? It's interesting because the Scarback religion is about the "Tree(s)" which seems to be nature based in some aspects. I thought it had something to do with the terraforming that had been done in the Quad in the past. It's been established that something went wrong on Arkyn in the past and that it was a "dead moon". The implication was that the terraforming didn't take or went bad.

And why did D'avin's body reject the green goo/Level 6 conditioning? Does that have something to do with what Dr. Jaeger did to him prior to the first season? He and Johnny are not from the Quad from what I've read about them but from a different section of the area of the system where the show takes place. Does that have anything to do with it, the fact he's not from the Quad? And who was asking questions about Red 17 in the episode with the ship the Killjoys tried to salvage? Was that the Company? Don't think it was the RAC or the Killjoys might have recognized more on the ship. Although, given D'avin's experience with Dr. Jaeger, it seems like it probably was the Company, especially if Level 6 is more involved with (or has infiltrated) the RAC.

Max Vaehling
07-13-2016, 12:10 AM
They really managed to up the status quo for season 2! Enough set-up for a 24 episode season, yet it won't be.

So Arkyn isn't just the terraforming-gone-wrong we were led to believe. Given that Red 17 was in a crater, maybe it was more like an early attempt at mining the quad but it went wrong and the company nuked it? Or maybe it was something like Serenity's Miranda except probably not with mind control drugs, knowing the company's lack of subtlety. Whatever it is, it seems to be at the centrer of this season's main mystery, along with its connection to Dutch.

The Red 17 related experiment the crew ran into last season was, I think, an army project, and I seem to recall the army and the company are two different things? Not quite sure right now. Didn't I just watch that weeks ago? Anyway, whoever it was seems both aware and afraid of Red 17 and, in extension, Level 6. (And btw, how awesome is it that there's suddenly an even more secret level above that?) I guess D'avin was immune either due to his supersoldier cocktail or the nanobodies he got injected with during the salvage episode. Or did they remove those at the end of it?

BTW, I can't believe there wasn't a Killjoys thread here yet. At least none I could find.

dirtsider
07-13-2016, 04:44 PM
I think they got rid of the nanobodies at the end of that episode or at least tried. Maybe they didn't get all of them? The guy left on the ship (the one 'working' with the computer) was military but I have the sense that it was a Company experiment. Dr. Jaeger (the one who did the remote control experiment on D'Avin pre-series) was Company. The army/military is likely separate from the Company but the Company probably does experiments on their behalf. It wouldn't surprise me that the Company is doing experimentation like that since they seem to be almost governmental in nature where the Quad's concerned.

It doesn't surprise me that the military and the Company (particularly the Company) was aware of Red 17, given their status, money, and 'power' in the Quad. Level 6 was an urban legend, at least among the Killjoys so who's to say that the Company wouldn't have heard of Red 17. Delle Sayeh (from Qresh/one of the 9 families) was aware of Level 6 since she used them (Khlyen) to help her with her coup against some of the other Families. So who's to say how much information was out there on either one? Turin seemed to be aware of them. But he was only one person and, while he had/has access to information and hearsay, he probably wasn't in a position to act on them. I'm sure he couldn't be sure who was on whose side. But once Dutch and her team proved they weren't on Level 6's side, despite Level 6's interest in Dutch, Turin was smart to propose (order?) an uneasy alliance. They were just going to look into it themselves anyway.

I agree - I was surprised there was no thread for Killjoys yet either. I was beginning to wonder if anyone else here watched it.

dirtsider
07-15-2016, 08:46 PM
Can't wait for tonight's episode. I'm hoping we learn more about the visions D'Avin had on Arkyn as well as more Scarback history.

As for the Red 17 facility being in the crater, Arkyn was just a moon, originally. So it might have just been a natural feature that the L6's took over. It's smart to keep things inconspicuous, given their secretive nature. And given D'Avin's visions and Alvis' comment about Scarbacks not being on Arkyn for over 200 years, I'm wondering if they took advantage of the stories about the terraforming going bad. Still, the terraforming must have took well enough for there to be breathable air, even if they filter it via underground facilities.

Then again, the reflections in the 'water'/liquid in the crater makes me curious.

Max Vaehling
07-16-2016, 12:19 AM
As for the Red 17 facility being in the crater, Arkyn was just a moon, originally. So it might have just been a natural feature that the L6's took over.

That's what i thought when I first saw it, and it's pretty likely, too. Then again, it's the Company. They're well capable of nuking a moon to stop an uprising.

dirtsider
07-16-2016, 01:05 AM
Well, hopefully we'll get some answers (although only a few) tonight. I guess that's one benefit to having short seasons. lol

Max Vaehling
07-17-2016, 02:04 PM
Nope, no answers. (Welll, one, but the question about where the green goo comes from wasn't really on the top of my list.) Fun episode, though. It's always nice to see everybody be competent, even though Pawter's opportunity for being good at what she does seemed a bit too convenient, from a writer's perspective. Still loved what she did with it.

dirtsider
07-18-2016, 04:31 PM
Yeah, I loved what Pawter did. She definitely made the most of her opportunities when presented with them although I'm curious as to who was the person she encountered (or more rightly who encountered her) at the end.

But you're right - almost no answers. Are the moss-bugs really where the green goo comes from, though? Not sure. The questions are sure piling up. Loved the world-building on the Scarbacks. Soooo many questions.

The "twelve went to Arkyn to fight the devil" sounds a lot like the 7 Samurai-eqse or other similar Japanese movies. But who put out the warrant on finding the Scarback priest in the mine in the first place?

VeryBigBeard
07-18-2016, 07:11 PM
I've been watching this since it debuted. Initially I was more intrigued by Dark Matter but that one did nothing to me and Killjoys just pulled me back week after week, not so much with its plot but with the quality of the writing. There are great lines every episode, the world-building is vivid and detailed but delivered at break-neck pace so as not to bog down the episode, the amount of detail and care put into Lucy, Pree, Pawter, and Alvys as secondary characters.

Didn't particularly love this week's episode, as it felt like Stargate in how typical it was (I mean, the rescue mission goes sideways in a secret cave thing--it wasn't so much poorly executed as it just felt kind of uninspired). Still, this show's built up a lot of cred with me and I can weather a couple less zig-zaggy episodes in favour of the ones that move at the kind of pace last season did. Whereas Dark Matter came in with the cred brought by ex-Stargate producers and squandered it on amnesia openings and stilted dialogue within ten minutes (I gather it gets better, but I didn't get that far).

Anyway, yeah, I've started to really like this show and hope it continues for awhile.

dirtsider
07-18-2016, 09:22 PM
I kinda liked this past episode since it continues to add to this season's worldbuilding, particularly the Scarback religion. I can see why you feel the way you do though.

On the other hand, I felt that John was being left behind by the mythologizing of Dutch and D'Avin. Dutch is Khlyen's "chosen one" and she's tied in a lot of ways to Level 6, Red 17, and Arkyn. D'Avin is sort of being set up as her opposite. He's not susceptible to the Level 6 conditioning and now the mossipedes' reaction to him. He resisted the conditioning from Dr. Jaeger to forget her experiments in the military.

Granted, John seems to be the "everyman"/brainy character but the other two are being set up as "superhuman". There are some hints that there are things on the horizon for his character. But I'm just annoyed that he's being eclipsed by the other two and their mysteries. As John said in the first season, D"Avin comes in and just start D'avining all over whatever good John has in his life. So I'm feeling angry on his behalf.

Max Vaehling
07-18-2016, 09:56 PM
Dark Matter does get better - I like some of the things they're doing this season, most of all not shoehorning in a romance between two characters whose actors have absolutely no chemistry to work from. They also upped the world-building, so there's good there. But it's still little more than a show that rides on the back of Killjoys which just keeps messing with my brain in the funnest ways. Even last week, although that was kind of a slow one.

The only Dark Matter producer I recognize is Jay Firestone who was on Michelle Lovretta's previous show, Lost Girl. (Another favorite and one of the reasons I even checked out Killjoys.) So there's some shared DNA (not to mention Zoie Palmer).

dirtsider
07-19-2016, 05:57 PM
I was reading an article that mentioned the PTB on Killjoys were surprised that all the main secondary characters, all the characters really, were so well received. They were figuring that some wouldn't be received well and were ready to phase them out if they weren't. They can always bring in new characters as people they meet along the way (such as Clara) or one of their established contacts or fellow Killjoys. I love how they're building them up more this season.

I was kinda hoping that Pawter would remain in Jelco's dome for most of the season of her own free will. I figured that she realized that she was in a good place to be their eyes and ears and, as such, feed them information. Now though, I'm interested in finding out who the cloaked figure is.

I'm also glad they got the romance between Dutch and D'Avin over and done with pretty early. I'm glad they didn't stretch that out over the course of several seasons with the whole "will-they/won't they" routine that's regularly done. On the other hand, the PTB seem to be trying to see if the whole Alvis/Dutch romance will work out. The actors have a good chemistry between them but I prefer their little flirtations. At least at the moment. But I do enjoy the fact that Johnny and Dutch have a comfortable sibling-esque relationship going.

dirtsider
07-22-2016, 11:05 PM
Found this website since I was looking for more info on Killjoys.

http://www.tvfanatic.com/shows/killjoys/episodes/

Love the recaps and reviews. It also has quotes, which is always fun.

dirtsider
07-25-2016, 04:54 PM
Enjoyed this episode, although like last week's it was slower paced than the norm for the show. I think they're putting a lot of energy into setting up the larger world-building beyond the team and the basic setup of the quad this season. I think they're getting ready for a big second half of the season. On one hand, it is slower paced or maybe limited in scale is the better description in terms of plot. On the other hand, it does raise a lot of questions.

1. How much does Delle Seyeh know about what Khlyn's involved? Sounds like a lot more than the Killjoys. That's not too surprising, given her rank/position as head of one of the 9 Families, and Dutch's refusal to have anything to do with Khlyn for the past 6-7 years. But I thought it was interesting that he sent that microwave burst to her at her secret facility.

2. Why create the seed bank ala school for the gifted? The concept of a knowledge seed bank is interesting. It sounds like Delle Seyeh and Khlyen are prepping for a time when a lot of people, particularly skilled/knowledgeable people, will probably be dead due to a large scale war. I do like the fact that Delle Seyeh is using Westerly kids, though. On one hand, I'm sure that Qreshi parents would put up a big stink if they couldn't get a hold of their kids while Westerly kids are considered expendable. On the other hand, Westerly parents would want to give their kids the best chance they can to get them off Westerly, no matter how sketchy the information.

3. So Khlyn and Fancy are heading off to the Jacobis homeworld. Who are the brothers Jacobi that allows D'Avin to resist the Level 6 conditioning and the green goo? Is it genetic? Meaning is Johnny also immune? Although this episode does confirm that Fancy is Level 6 loyal to Khlyn.

4. Who and what is the Black Root? How does that fit in with the "Tree" based theology of the Scarbacks and the Quad? The Scarbacks are the only religion that has been shown in Killjoys. But even they have a saying that "Twelve went to Arkyn to fight the Devil". Is the Black Root "the devil" referred to in this saying? Or is it the Lady and the Black Root people loyal to her?

I really enjoyed the fact that this episode focused more on D'Avin and Johnny. I love the fact that Johnny is still giving D"Avin grief about stabbing him in season 1. But watching D'Avin relate to the younger brother was adorable. And Johnny was the one who talked the older brother down, especially since they both were very techy people.

Dutch did get her time. I always enjoy watching Dutch and Delle Seyeh together, especially since Delle Seyeh now has answers that Dutch didn't realize she had. Yes, Khlyn put a lot of time and effort into her training but now Dutch realizes that he's playing a much larger game than just making her life "miserable".

dirtsider
08-01-2016, 05:35 PM
Well, at least two things were resolved in this last episode:

1. Dr. Jaeger's experiment on D'Avin is the reason why he appears to be immune to the Level 6 process/conditioning. Love how that gets tied into things again. Then again, I think most people watching the show might have had an inkling that was the case.

2. The family issues seems to be resolved and everyone is coming to terms with their past. I hope this means everyone can go forward.

I loved D'Avin's interaction with Fancy while he was in Khlyen's body. Fancy knew pretty much right away something was wrong once D'Avin mentally switched places with Khlyen. On the other hand, it was kinda sweet to see Dutch telling Khlyen that she no longer feared/hated him. And now that they've come to that understanding, I'm wondering if he will be more forthcoming with information. I understand that he can't just fill her in on everything since she might tip the fragile balance he is trying to maintain. He's right, she would just barge into things, guns blazing, and ruin more than she realized. But it seems like he's beginning to not treat her like a child anymore.

I liked the fact that Johnny lied to Dutch and seems to have gotten away with it. He does care and he's starting to act on it. I felt that he was starting to drift away from the team since least episode 3 (Shaft). I also liked the fact that Dutch seems to be jealous of any women the Jacobi brothers show an interest in. Not sure why she doesn't like Pawter (she didn't like Pawter since the first season), but she now seems to be jealous of Sabine, Pree's new bartender, because D'Avin is showing an interest in the other woman. It's not like Dutch wants to have a harem but more like she doesn't want them to be in relationships outside the team. On the other hand, it seems like she's ok with having a relationship with Alvis.

Max Vaehling
08-02-2016, 05:14 PM
I was a bit disappointed that they spent a whole sub plot on Khlyen's Trip to Papa Jacobi only to find out what had been the likeliest explanation anyway. The mind swap made up for some of it, though. Rob Stewart's performance as D'Avin was perfect. Luke Macfarlane isn't quite as versatile as an actor but his Khlyen wasn't bad either, especially during the fight scene.

Interested to see where Johnny's arc will lead. I loved his line claiming what he wants to do is "to give a shit", which he can't as a killjoy. Then again, I want him on that team as much as Dutch does because they have such great chemistry.

Another reveal that confirmed what could have been expected (I htink we've covered it here, too): That wasn't Dutch in D'Avin's memory on Arkyn. I'm sure this will tie into why Khlyen chose her as his favorite would-be assassin.

dirtsider
08-02-2016, 09:45 PM
Another reveal that confirmed what could have been expected (I htink we've covered it here, too): That wasn't Dutch in D'Avin's memory on Arkyn. I'm sure this will tie into why Khlyen chose her as his favorite would-be assassin.

I'm wondering if she's either a descendant or clone of the girl in D'Avin's memory. On the other hand, I wonder how this ties into the "Lady" Khlyen's dealing with through the Black Root.

Speaking of the Black Root, if they work for him, why is he circumventing them? Is he trying to keep ~them~ or the Killjoys safe by keeping the Killoys separate from the Black Root. Khlyen said that he wanted to send a Level 6 Killjoy who was loyal to ~him~ back to protect Dutch. He may have tried with Fancy but D'Avin didn't trust Fancy, either before or after the Level 6 programming.

dirtsider
08-08-2016, 05:25 PM
Loved this episode, although I didn't really get a chance to pay attention to it as closely as I would've liked. I think that since we're in the second half of the season, we're going to start getting a lot more answers now. Of course, we're still getting a number of questions as well. Here's hoping there's either a season 3 or, at worst, everything gets tied up at the end. (I"m hoping for a season 3.)

Loved the scene between Dutch and Romwell where we finally get some answers about how Dutch became part of the harem. That and Khlyen isn't her father. (Although I'm a little pout-y about that reveal.) The information Romwell revealed about ~his~ past was interesting. Throws a whole new light on things. Who is this enemy? Are they still in the Quad? Or are they the ones Khlyen is trying to prepare to fight against? The use of nanites in Romwell's torture/interrogation ties back to the season 1 episode Glitch.

Also loved the reveal about the Tree from Alvis and how it ties into the Scarback faith. The tie-in between the image in Alvis' book and Sabine at the end was very clever. Although that leads into the question - does what happened to hear have anything to do with the peaches she ate? I think she mentioned the peaches had become extinct. Of course, what happened to her has probably caused D'Avin to swear of sex for the foreseeable future....

Max Vaehling
08-08-2016, 07:07 PM
Yeah, it sounds like they're tying up a few threads to move in to a finale (four episodes to go, after all). So the green goos is connected to some outside threat? (Seemed not just outside but actually alien in the flashbacks which ould be a bit of a disappointment because I kind of liked the idea of a self-contained SF civilization.) Since Level 6 is also connected to the goo, the question is if they're using the goo to prepare themselves for an invasion (it could be a nifty early warning system) or if they're part of it. In the former case, they'd be on the same side as the army who are also apparently preparing for the advancing threat but less aware what it is. In the latter, they seem to only be aware of the Red 17 part of the threat.

Nice catch about the nanobots. I totally didn't make that connection. So how convenoiently arbitrary is it that of the two technologies that were used torturing Romwell, one ended up in the hands of Level 6 and one with the army?

I never thought Khlyen was Dutch's father. I know there was that line by Delle Seyah that alluded to a common past ("maybe daddy liked me best"), but I think it's not that close a connection.

As for Sabine, I read that as 'she's level 6 and he reportedly doesn't mix well with level 6', but it could also mean that he's just generally contagious now. Intersting bit about the peaches, though: To me, they looked more like apples. Could have sworn they were green.

Also, I love that they got Lucy's voice actress to play the bot taken over by Lucy. Well played, show!

dirtsider
08-08-2016, 09:01 PM
According to some of the reviews I read after I posted, it looks like Romwell got the nanites after escaping the torture/interrogation from an illegal hospital but it's still interesting that they were still involved.

I thought the 'peaches' looked like plums but I think they were also trying to make them look 'alien'. Still thought it was interesting that Sabine recognized them almost immediately and then made the comment of "I thought they had gone extinct" or something to that effect. How would she be able to do that unless she had seen something about them before?

As for Sabine being Level 6, I thought it had something to do with the peaches, rather than her already being Level 6. Didn't even think it had anything to do with D'Avin, other than traumatizing the hell out of him. But having a Level 6 agent planted in Pree's bar isn't surprising, especially since Khlyen is so interested in knowing more about D'Avin. Khlyen knows that the Killjoys frequent the place. And I think they would be interested in having an agent in Old Town anyway if a war is coming on.

Random thought: what if the wall around Old Town (and the other planned walls) were actually meant as a defense to keep things out as well as a way to keep the people inside in? Given that Khlyen is in contact with Delle Seyah who, as one of the 9 families, has a say in what the Company does, she might have put this into motion. The Westerly rebellion would've given a good cover to set everything up without alerting the 'natives'.

Max Vaehling
08-09-2016, 06:12 PM
Random thought: what if the wall around Old Town (and the other planned walls) were actually meant as a defense to keep things out as well as a way to keep the people inside in? Given that Khlyen is in contact with Delle Seyah who, as one of the 9 families, has a say in what the Company does, she might have put this into motion. The Westerly rebellion would've given a good cover to set everything up without alerting the 'natives'.

I like where you're going with this, especially from a narrative perspective (everybody would have to question gtheir allegiances). Although I doubt that any of the 9 families would put the workers' saftey first. (Then again, the 9's residences are already pretty well-preseved and the gas Pawter's mother worked on could have been supposed to kill everything outside of those home security perimieters.)

dirtsider
08-09-2016, 07:09 PM
I like where you're going with this, especially from a narrative perspective (everybody would have to question gtheir allegiances). Although I doubt that any of the 9 families would put the workers' saftey first. (Then again, the 9's residences are already pretty well-preseved and the gas Pawter's mother worked on could have been supposed to kill everything outside of those home security perimieters.)

Yeah, well, it was just a random thought. Westerly is the Quad's industrial planet. It's the one with the mines and other resources. I think that would be more of a reason to put up the walls than the workers, although the workers are useful. Setting up the walls now beats setting them up while scrambling during a war. Squeezing the workers into submission is a side benefit.

And Delle Seyah was creating a knowledge seed bank with her super-secret school, using Westerly kids. I'm sure she would've played up the Westerly rebellion as a reason to put up the walls in the first place. That would've gotten support from the other families.

They might also be beta testing the wall technology on Westerly now before using it on Qresh (and Leith as the agrarian planet) later on.

JenniferLee
08-14-2016, 12:27 AM
I love this show so much. It kind of fills the hole Firefly left, especially with all the fun quotes. "Why did you bring me Sabine in a bag?"
I really want to know what's going on with Dutch/other Dutch. I'm going to go waaay out on a ridiculous limb and say that I almost think the splitting of the Mossipede is a clue? Like Khlyen split Dutch into two or... something. I'm probably extremely wrong but just in case, I'm calling it. ;)

dirtsider
08-15-2016, 05:33 PM
I love this show so much. It kind of fills the hole Firefly left, especially with all the fun quotes. "Why did you bring me Sabine in a bag?"
I really want to know what's going on with Dutch/other Dutch. I'm going to go waaay out on a ridiculous limb and say that I almost think the splitting of the Mossipede is a clue? Like Khlyen split Dutch into two or... something. I'm probably extremely wrong but just in case, I'm calling it. ;)

I'm thinking that Dutch is either a descendant of the girl from the vision or a clone. If she's a clone, that could explain the Dutch-image moving independently of Dutch-person if your idea is correct. On the other hand, it might be just a figment of Dutch's imagination or a neural link from the plasma somehow.

I'm thinking that the mossipedes may not be the source of the plasma. I think they must have injested some from the monk when he went into the tunnel to hide from the 'devil' on Arkyn.

One thing that got me was that Romwell in the previous episode told Dutch "You don't remind me of anyone". In this last episode, Sabine tells Dutch "Khlyen removed you from the Green", meaning the plasma, I think. So I'm thinking that Romwell probably lied when he said that he wasn't injected with the plasma but heals from the nanites. Then again, the visions D'Avin had was from 200 years ago and Romwell's older than that.

Dutch annoyed me in this episode. She has always been jealous of anyone the Jacobi brothers took an interest in outside the team. She's very possessive of her harem, even if she's not having sex with them. Pree even calls her out on it. She was very unsympathetic in this episode. Sabine brought out the worst in her. Probably because Dutch saw herself in Sabine and Sabine didn't sugarcoat things for her.

I think the main thing that bothered me was the implication that a woman has to be broken in some way to be badass. Khlyen broke Yelena at an early age (or as Sabine said "broke her in the cradle"). Sabine admitted that the only people who could survive the transformation were those physically strong enough to handle the plasma but broken mentally enough for it to take. Sociopath, essentially.

dirtsider
08-19-2016, 07:58 PM
Another episode of Killjoys tonight. I'm wondering how/if Dutch will be redeemed from last week's episode, at least in my eyes.

On one hand, I get that Dutch was right, where Sabine was concerned. Sabine was not only a Level 6 but a member of the Black Root. She (Sabine) was trying to get information on Khlyen and was using the team to do it. I'm sure she was also interested in/instructed to find out more about the three of them as well. If Khlyen was interested in them, it stands to reason that the Black Root would be as well. Especially given what D'Avin can do/has done, regarding the plasma. I'm sure that the Black Root is aware that D'Avin not only rejected the Level 6 procedure but lived to tell the tale.

On the other hand, Dutch is very possessive of the Jacobi brothers. They are "hers" - her team, her partners. But she takes it too far. I get the sense that if she can't/won't have them, no one else is allowed either. Pree called her out on it and Johnny confirmed it.

But I think it's more than that. I do get the fact that she's angry that her past is coming back to haunt her and she's finally coming to grips with what Khlyen did to her in making her a weapon. I think she does want to be done with it all. This past episode (A Heart Shaped Box), she came across as pretty selfish. She's so focused on coming to grips with her past, with what's going on with Khlyen/Level 6/The Black Root and how it relates to ~her~ specifically, that she no longer seems to care about what's going on around her. It's hard to be sympathetic about her problems when there's going to be nothing but scorched earth to come back to when they're done.

I think Pawter and Johnny might also have a limited view on things (wanting to take down the wall for Old Town) but getting that information will also affect what's going on on the rest of Westerly. Pawter and Johnny have pretty much taken up what Alvis started since Alvis seems to have dropped the ball on it. Perhaps part of that is guilt as his revolution has made things temporarily worse for Old Town. But losing one battle isn't a good enough reason to stop fighting the war. And, it might be a thread leading to more information as to what's going on in the wider 'world' of the entire J Sector. Pawter has put herself in a position to get more information that only the Nine have access to but she hasn't forgotten the little people, either. But Alvis is more caught up in Dutch's issues than the revolution he himself started.

In the preview for this week's episode, it looks like Dutch abandons Johnny and forces D'Avin to do the same. It sounds like we're going to get more information regarding what's going on Arkyn, though. Finishing that plot thread off will be satisfying, especially since there's only 3 more episodes (including tonight's) to go.

Max Vaehling
08-22-2016, 04:35 PM
Yay, answers!

Well, some anyway.

I espect the problems between Dtutch and Johnny will be resolved next episode. For now, they seem to have settled on following their rspective quests - both of which require total commitment, so it actually makes sense.

I expected the two threads to be more connected, though. Sure, there's the wall tech and there are sixes all over Old Town, but those seem more to do with stuff that happened long ago than with the big threat to the Quad we've been wondering about.

dirtsider
08-22-2016, 04:53 PM
Definitely yay, answers!!

I'm sure no one was really surprised (other than the characters) that Khlyen turned out to be Aneela's father. The question is now, is Dutch/Yelena actually Aneela or is she a clone. I think D'Avin mentioned the fact that Khlyen is adept at tweeking people's memories. So I wouldn't be surprised if she is Aneela. But I think Aneela is actually the "Lady" the Black Root refers/reports to. I think it was mentioned that the cubes are Khlyen's safehouses. So I wonder if the one on Leith was actually ~his~ safehouse and the red box was his for killing his own daughter.

I did love the fact that the monk refused to forgive Dutch at the end. I'm sure he was tortured for 200 years by a woman that looks like her and/or Khlyen.

Watching Pawter and Johnny get framed by Jelco was brutal to watch. I'm not sure if the wall tech and the sixes all over Old Town was related to previous stuff (Level 6 recruitment/Westerly rebellion) or the big Quad threat. They may be trying to kill two birds with one stone - quash the rebellion and prepare Westerly for this big threat by culling the weak. The school episode showed Delle Seyah was working on preserving knowledge by downloading it into the Westerly kids. And she's willing to kill to end opposition and put ~her~ people into positions of power. Or at least have the replacements be loyal to her. The big threat may be something that Khlyen warned her about since we do know they're talking and working together.

dirtsider
08-26-2016, 08:59 PM
Down to the second to last episode of the season. (Here's hoping for Season 3.) According to the previews/synopsis, Dutch gets captured by a really pissed off crowd of Westerlyans. That makes me wonder if Aneela is on the move, especially since Sabine got brought back to the Black Root. Even if Sabine is well and truly dead, the Black Root might have been able retrieve her memories via the plasma.

Are Aneela and Dutch one and the same, just multiple personalities? Not sure, especially with the dreams and the creepy mirror-image. Are they sisters or related somehow? How is the creepy mirror image explained then, a residual connection through the plasma? Is Dutch Aneela's clone? Is Aneela the "Lady" referred to by Khlyen and the Black Root? It would seem so, given the reaction of the ancient monk and the snippets of memory Olin and D'Avin got from their connection to the plasma.

Is Khlyen really Aneela's biological father or not? Why are they at odds, no matter their actual biological relationship? If Khlyen was at the beginning of things - meaning the RAC and the invasion of the Quad, why did he apparently go rogue? Does he feel that Aneela crossed some line that even someone like him feels shouldn't be crossed? What would it take for him to even get to that point, even the information revealed by Sabine in "A Heart-Shaped Box" about Level 6's?

How will Dutch and D'Avin's reunion with Johnny go? Is it going to be a case of D&D going "oops, you were on the right path to begin with" when they do meet up again? I'm sure there's going to be a lot of "you abandoned me when I needed you" emotions floating around, no matter what happens.

I'm sure that Johnny's going to be really pissed off at D'Avin for leaving him to go off with Dutch. D'Avin doesn't really have a good track record with Johnny with sticking around and having his back. First it was D'Avin running off when they were kids. Then it was him never keeping in touch for eight years. Then the situation with nearly killing him, although that was not D'Avin's fault. (D'Avin didn't share any information with Johnny unless Johnny pushed for it.) Of course, there's the situation where Johnny rescuing him in the first episode. So Johnny's been there for D'Avin but not the other way around.

I'm hoping we finally get to find out what Delle Seyah's plans are in full and how they're related to the invasion of the Quad. Whose side is she on?
*We know DS is in communication with Khleyn and he's sending her information.
*We know she's the one who order the wall to be built and put into use.
*We know that she's been eliminating anyone who opposes her among the Nine.
*We know she set up a "knowledge seed bank" on the sly.
*We know Pawter's mother created that ice virus as a weapon. Is it to fight DS or the Sixes? DS ~and~ the Sixes?

I remember a comment from the Season 1 finale (Escape Velocity) where Delle Seyah said something along the lines of "Daddy liked me better" to Dutch. If I do recall that correctly, then it means that Khlyen told Delle Seyah all about Aneela. I know Khlyen refused to say anything to Dutch about what's going on because she'll rush into things and disrupt whatever plans he has going on. But Delle Seyah is an experienced politician, leader, schemer, and most likely planner/strategist/tactician. She's used to doing things slow and quietly.

dirtsider
08-29-2016, 06:54 PM
Ok, that didn't go as I expected but it was still cool. I'm glad that the team is very much a team and able to slip into Team Awesomeforce with nary a hitch.

I was kinda surprised that Pawter was the one who died. I was kinda expected it to be Khlyen in the final episode, although I'm not surprised he's going to be teaming up with the Killjoys given the lead-up to it throughout the entire season. I feel so bad about Johnny. He's lost another person he cares about and wasn't able to fix things.

It looks like Johnny and Pawter actually got married. Does it stick, considering they were under the influence of the Wall at the time? I hope so. I would love to see Johnny take on the Nine once everything is done and dusted.

Ok, who promised Delle Seyah immortality? Is she playing both sides against each other (Khlyen vs. the Black Root)? That is definitely her style so long as she comes out on top. Loved how she manipulated the news of Pawter's death to make the Westerlyans to buy into ~her~ version of the truce/treaty. I think she was the one who suggested putting the Level 6's into the monk robes to undermine their authority/significance among the Westerlyans. That and use the Scarback order's ability to travel relatively freely throughout the Quad to her advantage. I think DS is cunning enough to know/realize that Alvis is working with Dutch and take steps to neutralize him. Although the Old Towners might still be peeved with his lack of follow through after the bombings. Granted, he's off doing important things but Johnny and Pawter have made it a point to go about their own business and still make Old Town/Westerly a priority. The Killjoys could have used Alvis as an introduction and they had another monk help them out. I do understand them not wanting to bring in another major character due to budgetary reasons but given the Scarback freedom to travel, information could've gotten to him on Westerly.

I'm sure there's more running around my head on this episode but here's my first impressions.

Max Vaehling
08-29-2016, 11:46 PM
so a character death was announced? I didn't know. Man, that hurt. Also, what a way to bring down the wall. I would have loved to see how that experience changed Pawter. Alas.

So Delle Seyah isn't onlky breeding superintelligent Old Towners but also sixes, possibly superintelligent ones. Figures. Which leaves the question: How invloved is Khlyen in all of that?

I guess they're setting Delle Seyah up as a big bad / foil for season 3 now, aren't they?

dirtsider
08-30-2016, 12:17 AM
Yeah, I recall it being said that a character was going to be killed off at the end of the season. Not sure exactly when that was, though. I really thought it was going to be Khlyen.

Delle Seyah was working with the Sixes in Season 1 as well, and not just Khlyen. The Six in Escape Velocity (the last episode in Season 1) said "So you're Khlyen's little pet" to Dutch as he was strangling her.

I think Delle Seyah is probably playing both sides off each other for her own interests. If the Sixes are really trying to protect the Quad from invasion, then it would be smart to involve the Nine. Delle Seyah is smart, cunning and opportunistic so it's not surprising she's working with them. And she might also have her hands in on the project that Dr. Jaeger was working on to neutralize the Sixes as well.

But she did mention that she was promised immortality so I'm not sure if she's already a Six or is promised the plasma procedure. I don't think she's been one for long if she has been made one. I'm sure that talk would've gotten around about her longevity if that were the case.

On the other hand, I think she knew about Dr. Jaeger since she gave that information to the Killjoys. Between that and owning a portion of the Company, I believe she knew about the Remote-Control-Soldier program. But I find it interesting that she didn't say anything about that to Khlyen. He had to find about it in the Season 2 episode, Meet the Parents.

While it does look like she's being set up as the big bad/villain for Season 3, she may not actually be the big bad. The creator of Killjoys also created Lost Girl. Delle Seyah reminds me a lot of Evony (the Morrigan, leader of the Dark Fae). Evony was a b!tch but she wasn't the big-bad of the series, just annoying to the MC.

Max Vaehling
08-30-2016, 12:46 AM
That, and this season doesn't really have a singular big bad either. Just lots of mysteries to unravel.


But she did mention that she was promised immortality so I'm not sure if she's already a Six or is promised the plasma procedure. I don't think she's been one for long if she has been made one. I'm sure that talk would've gotten around about her longevity if that were the case.

Also, she went to school with Pawter.

dirtsider
08-31-2016, 11:01 PM
Ok, here are some thoughts questions leading up to the final episode of the season:

*Who was the group who brought in the plasma to the Quad - Khlyen and the other Sixes or the Scarback order? Was it someone else? Or was the plasma always in the system?

It's been said the Khlyen was there from the beginning. The beginning of what? The RAC? Did he create the RAC as a program to cull useful Killjoys? They'd be well suited as special ops since they're expected to be resourceful and think for themselves, being bounty hunters. He's definitely over 200 years old if Aneela is the girl from the visions, the Scarback's 'devil' and Khlyen is her 'father' (biological or otherwise).

On the other hand, the Scarback order venerates the Tree(s). Alvis found the old records that says they venerate the Tree(s) with the sap that conveys immortality. We don't really know when the Order came into being but it would be more than 200 years since the legend of "12 went to Arkyn to fight the devil" is definitely true. So when did the Order came into being?

*Did Khlyen, Aneela and the other Sixes learn about the Tree sap of immortality from the Scarbacks or was it the other way around?

Alvis figured that the reason why the Scarbacks cut themselves was to prove they could still bleed and so weren't infected by the plasma. But in the first Season, a common Scarback phrase was "Our Sin, Your Redemption". Why? Does it have anything to do with the Tree of Immortality? Or is it related to their failure to take out the "devil" on Arkyn and stop the plasma from being used on others?

*How are either of these groups related to the Invaders that Romwell mentioned a few episodes back?

Are they related to Romwell's invaders? If not, is Delle Seyah and/or Khlyen creating an army to fight them off?

Another thing: I think the mossipedes were created when the monk who fled after the failed raid on Arkyn hid in the mines on Westerly. He remained hidden in the mines until he died so the mossipedes would've had the chance to feed on his body (or parts of him) during the 200 years it remained hidden. The monk was probably infected with the plasma on Arkyn like the others but was able to escape to Westerly at some point.

Alvis said that the Scarback faith (at least on Westerly) started in the mines. Khlyen knew about this particular mine and must have known that the monk's body was probably hidden inside it since he was the one who called off the search for the missing Killjoys who originally went in search of it. I think Khlyen was probably keeping it hidden from the Black Root/other Sixes, perhaps to keep knowledge of the Level Sixes little more than an urban legend or until Dutch was ready to find it. If others found it before Dutch (or just found it at all), news/confirmation of the Sixes would've come out before he was ready.

*Did these invaders originally come from the Quad or not?

Not sure if it was said but it doesn't sound like Romwell's homeworld was located in the Quad. He might have been from the J system but I don't recall from where.

*Was the red box in the episode "A Heart Shaped Box" really for Dutch? Or was it to be used on Dutch if/when she learned the truth about herself?

The Safe Houses were created by Khlyen for his own use to hide from the "Lady". I know it was mentioned in "A Heart Shaped Box" that the safe house on Leith was for Dutch but was it really? The one on Arkyn was for Khlyen's personal use, IIRC, and it led to the lab where the monks were being held. It looked like Khlyen was doing testing on them. Was it to test out the plasma? Was it to test out whether or not he could manipulate the plasma and create Sixes loyal to him and him alone?

dirtsider
09-02-2016, 12:32 AM
Yay!! Killjoys has been renewed for a third season, as has Dark Matters. Not sure if I'm going to catch up on Dark Matters but I can't wait to get a hold of the second season of Killjoys on DVD when it comes out.

I do like the build up over the course of the past two seasons. If the show was on another channel, we probably would still be in only Season 1. But I like the brisk pace involved in these shorter seasons. They have to cut out as much excess as they can, which means the plotting is tighter with less fluff episodes in the first few seasons in order to set up/show off the world building.

Max Vaehling
09-02-2016, 04:47 PM
Maybe the Scarbacks used to cultivate a more benevolent form of the sap, which got stolen and weaponized by the company/some of the NIne/whoever and weaponized into what would become Level 6. Maybe the cutting originally wasn't really a proof of purity (although it may have grown into that) but a healing ritual? After all, they still use their blood to bless people. I like the idea of a green-blooded monk entering the cave and that was what infected the mossipedes, but if the order came from the mines, I'm still more inclined to believe that's where they cultivated it first.

I've been wondering about that last red box, too. They all assume it's for Dutch, but we don't really have proof of that.

And yes: The pacing is among the things I enjoy most about this show.

dirtsider
09-02-2016, 07:11 PM
I originally thought the last red box was for Dutch as well when it first appeared at the end of the Heart Shaped Box episode. But when the similar safe house appeared on Arkyn in the next episode and it proved to be more of a Khlyen based safe house, I started wondering. I also wonder if this is where Khlyen started testing out how to create a Six loyal to him on the monks.

As for the sap, Romwell did say the first time he saw it was in the ship the Invaders used 400+ years ago (long before the Scarbacks went to Arkyn). It was being used to power the ship so it probably was being used for multiple uses. We know that Khlyen had a bowl of it in the RAC HQ ship and was using it as a sort of computer. Then there was the crater full of it on Arkyn (at least it appeared to be).

I think the Scarback order in the Quad probably came from the mines with the monk since that's where he went to hide after fleeing Arkyn. Not sure if that's where the monks originally came from ~before~ they went to Arkyn. The one remaining monk probably taught other miners and then had himself walled in and the mine forgotten so that it wouldn't be disturbed. Or Khlyen, after his experiments on the other monks, closed the mine after he located the survivor. Khlyen was the one who ordered the distress call ignored at the beginning of the season. The mossipedes had 200 years to get infected and multiply.

dirtsider
09-06-2016, 07:20 PM
I guess I called it - Khlyen died in the finale. I am definitely going to miss the character. He was a really good antagonist - more than just a maniacal villain out to get Dutch, someone who was emotionally blackmailing her. Dutch and Khlyen had a really messed up relationship but he was right. He was preparing her for something bigger than just the harem.

But wow... did we ever get answers!! The Nine had 10 generations to rape the Quad before handing it over to Aneela and her people? So that's how the 10 Generation pact on Westerly came about. There was a lot of information given in this episode that I will so need to get the DVD's just to process it all.

As usual, there were a lot of great one-liners. I adore D'Avin's and Fancy's relationship. I'm going to be soooo pleased to see Fancy interact with the team in Season 3 (yay, season 3!!). They are some of the few people who have any idea of what's going on in the System. And Fancy is the only person who understands what's going on from a Level 6 POV.

I loved the fact that Johnny had his payback with Delle Seyah. I think there was a little laugh at the end as she listened to her own words about people's love for Pawter while she was sitting in a growing pool of her own blood. Don't know if she's going to be in Season 3 but it will be very interesting if she was. How will she spin the fact the reason why he shot her? Or the reason why she was in the alley in the first place?

I just hope Aaron Ashmore hasn't left the series. Fortunately, he's still alive (and stole Khlyen's ship to boot) so there's always that option if he has indeed left the show. Although, since the show has once again broadened the scope of the show beyond just the Quad, I think it was a smart move to get one of the team out and about. Since he's a Killjoy, he knows how to track information down. And if he is still out there, I just hope he doesn't get caught by Aneela and changed into a Level 6. He's smart, capable, and broken enough to probably survive the transition. That would be a kick in the gut if he does become a Level 6.

Max Vaehling
09-07-2016, 07:16 PM
That was... surprising. Not Khlyen's death, really - that was to be expected, though I'd have preferred to keep the actor around forsome future scheming. But I'd expected them to go against Aneela rather than one of her trees. Or at least have more of an Obi Wan Kenobi send-off, with Khlyen fightin Aneela while Dutch does some actual world-saving. Oh well. There's virtue in understatement.

Loved the D'Avin/Fancy bromance. "Don't say human shield!" Heh.

Johnny killing (probably) Delle Sayah surprised me, too. As I mentioned above, I expected her to be set up as a foil/villain for season 3. I do love how Johnny used Khlyen as an avatar, though. Also, while I would have preferred him to stay (his chemistry with Dutch is the best, closely followed by Lucy), seeing Clara again made up for it. I hope we'll see them again. Also, I wonder if that will be a warrant?

ONe thing puzzles me - it seems the nine families only made the contract with the workers in season 1 (work for us for 7 generations and your family gets land on Leathe) because they knew there wouldn't be much to give them. So why did they put up a fight when it was time to pay up?

dirtsider
09-07-2016, 07:42 PM
I don't think the Nine made the contract with the Westerlyans in Season 1. I think it was getting to the point where there were enough people who fulfilled the qualifications for land on Leith and the contract was coming due. That, I think, was the reason for the rebellion Alvis was leading in the first place. In the episode with the Black Rain, the guys holding everyone hostage in the Royale had stolen a bunch of 7th Gen claim ID's so that whoever had one (no matter what actual Gen claim they had) would get land on Leith. Sort of circumventing the system. And since the Nine knew this wasn't going to happen due to their deal with Aneela, they put on a sham vote to appease the masses, although we, the audience, didn't know this at the time.

As for Delle Seyah, reviewers have commented on her little laugh at the end. On one hand, I think she's a great villain. On the other, I thought the laugh was less about her surviving even this, and more about the message playing in the background - the one where she's praising Pawter's heroism. The comment playing at the time of the laugh was the one about "the people who loved her". She must have known that Johnny was one of those people and knew DSK was the one who actually killed her. So she may or may not be back. Even odds. lol

dirtsider
06-15-2017, 05:09 PM
The third season starts at the end of the month. I will probably have to watch this online since I no longer have access to cable. (Used to watch it over at my parents' place on Fridays.) Re-watched season 2. Loved it.

So... a bit of a summary as a run up for the new season:

* ~400-432 years before Season 2 (BS2): Romwell's world was invaded by people using organic technology (including the green plasma)
* ~250-300 years BS2: The Nine Families on Qresh made a deal (likely the Hollen/L6 - ties to the same people who invaded Romwell's work unknown) - the Nine had 10 generations to plunder the Quad before handing the system over (it was either this or face immediate conquest) [I remember reading/hearing the a span of a generation is about 25-30 years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation) so I used that number in figuring out this time.]
* 200 years BS2: 12 monks went to Arkyn to fight the devil, (n)one came back - this was Aneela and the Hollen
* End of Season 1/Beginning of Season 2: Old Town gets bombed, the Wall goes up, and Jelco starts preparing the labs/systems to convert people to be Hollen (how much he was aware of what the Hollen are is unknown) - Delle Seyeh starts to create the knowledge seedbank via the Prodigy school

I don't think it was ever stated when the Quad/Qresh was colonized so I have no idea how long people lived there. On the other hand, Aneela, Khlyen, and the people who became the Hollen (i.e., the Level 6's) had to have been there for some time in order for the Scarback monks to make the decision to go there to fight the devil (aka Aneela). Also not sure when the plasma was put on Arkyn as it had to have been 'seeded' before Khlyen found it. So it might have been 'seeded' about the time Romwell's world was invaded.

Still loved Delle Seyeh's little laugh at the end of ep 2.10. While I'm not sure if she survived, I think it was primarily because I think she appreciated the irony of being played and bested by Johnny as well as the timing of getting shot. I don't think anyone (other than Johnny) knew where she was since, like in the Prodigy episode, she snuck out on her own without her guards.

TCnKC
07-03-2017, 08:21 PM
So I got caught up and rewatched season 1, then watched season 2. Holy Crap, I'm addicted. Now episode 1 of season 3, loved it. This show's writers pace the show so well(jump right back into kick *** action)

So spoilers below:

What is up with Clara not being in the episode/Johnny needing to find her? Where is she? Is the actress still on the show? Is this new character Ollie her replacement? or ... maybe Clara is Ollie somehow(hey, it's Spec fiction who knows)


I also loved the last scene of the episode, so well done(with the music and the actors.)

Oh and ...

Johnny's a cyborg! lol ... well, sort of

Max Vaehling
07-03-2017, 11:30 PM
Yeah, I wondered about that, too. I've llooked up her IMDB page, but it doesn't say anything about 2017 episodes. I hope that's just because they haven't aired yet. Ollie feels very much like a replacement indeed.

Great to see they haven't lost their drive, though. Also great that Michelle Lovretta is still on board - she left Lost Girl pretty early so it's not a granted but I'd rather have her with this show for a while.