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View Full Version : In Victorian England, how would brothers be introduced?



lianna williamson
05-07-2016, 08:57 PM
So, say you're at a ball in Victorian London. A young lady is being introduced to two young gentlemen who are brothers. What is the proper way to present them? "Miss Smith, may I present..."

Mr. Jones and Mr. Jones?
Mr. Jones and his younger brother, Mr. Jones?
Mr. John Jones and Mr. James Jones?
the Misters Jones?
something else?

mirandashell
05-07-2016, 09:17 PM
As they are at a ball, I doubt they are working class but.... what class and status are these people?

lianna williamson
05-07-2016, 09:20 PM
Gentlemen and a gentleman's daughter.

mirandashell
05-07-2016, 09:26 PM
And the brothers?

mirandashell
05-07-2016, 09:27 PM
And is the 'gentleman' from Old Money? Does he live off the rents of tenant farmers? Or has he made his money from plantations or industry?

lianna williamson
05-07-2016, 09:35 PM
The lady's father is Old Money, living off rents. The two gentlemen brothers have family money from shipping and trading.

Cyia
05-07-2016, 09:36 PM
Money =/= title. Lots of old families are land rich and money poor.

Gentry or true nobility? Does their father have a title? Is he known well enough for them to be introduced as his children?

"Mister" isn't exactly the social apex. It's the default, so what's the indication that these are anything other than a couple of middle class worker's sons?

mirandashell
05-07-2016, 09:41 PM
If they are two sons from a rich middle class family then they would be introduced as 'Mr John Jones and his brother James,' I think.

lianna williamson
05-07-2016, 09:42 PM
The young lady's father is a Lord.

The brothers' father does not have a title, but he is a well-known figure in society.

Cyia
05-07-2016, 09:47 PM
Then the boys would introduced to her, not the other way around.

If her father is titled, then she'd be addressed as Lady Smith, I think, so long as she's "out" in society. A child might be addressed as Miss, but for a formal introduction, you'd need to use her title.

Were they not announced upon entry?

mirandashell
05-07-2016, 09:53 PM
They are being introduced to her. And I think no-one got announced at a public ball, only at private balls.

Cyia
05-07-2016, 09:55 PM
Apparently today I can't read. :Shrug:

mirandashell
05-07-2016, 09:58 PM
:D

I have days like that! The amount of times I have to edit my posts cos I've written totally the wrong word is embarrassing to admit......

Lil
05-08-2016, 05:52 AM
If her father is a duke, marquis or earl, she is Lady First Name. They would be introduced to her (always gentlemen introduced to ladies) as
"Lady Mary/Miss Smith, may I present Mr. John Doe and Mr. James Doe."
If you are truly interested in this stuff, may I suggest the following website:
http://www.chinet.com/~laura/html/titles01.html

lianna williamson
05-08-2016, 05:58 AM
I am truly interested. Thank you to everyone!

ULTRAGOTHA
05-08-2016, 10:21 PM
So, say you're at a ball in Victorian London. A young lady is being introduced to two young gentlemen who are brothers. What is the proper way to present them? "Miss Smith, may I present..."
Mr. Jones and Mr. Jones?
Mr. Jones and his younger brother, Mr. Jones?
Mr. John Jones and Mr. James Jones?
the Misters Jones?
something else?

Mr Jones and Mr James Jones. The fact that James gets his first name when his brother doesn't will tell her right there James is the younger brother.



The lady's father is Old Money, living off rents. The two gentlemen brothers have family money from shipping and trading.

If he's living off rents, then he owns Real Estate. But if he's a Lord, then he's either a younger son (Lord Thomas Smith) or he's a Peer (Lord Smith or Thomas Smith, Lord Hastings). If he's an Earl or Marquis then Miss Smith is actually Lady Mary Smith. Otherwise, she's Miss Smith if she's the eldest unmarried daughter or Miss Mary Smith of an older sister is still unmarried.



The young lady's father is a Lord.

If the father is a younger son and *his* father was a Duke (thus he is Lord Thomas Smith) then either his father was really wealthy and generous to leave him an unentailed estate, or he himself has managed to acquire enough money to buy an estate.

What title Miss Smith's father has will determine a lot about how she is addressed.