I have a question of police procedure with home invasions.

Most likely the cop would use the same entry at the bad guy.

Doors vary. If it's steel deadbolt, he's not going through it short of a battering ram. Make the door whatever your story needs.

You'll need someone more into police tactics, but a shoot out in the house is risky. Bullets easily go through walls.

Jim Clark-Dawe

ironpony said:

If the police are responding to a home invasion, and they could see that there may be an intruder inside, by flashing their lights and searching the windows, the police are going to want to get into the house, especially if the threat to the owner is immediate, and they know the owner is home.

So the main cop has no time to wait for a swat team or anything like that and will have to break down the locked door, to get in and save the owner in time. However, how do they break through the locks in a home invasion case, if the front door is locked?

Do they use door breaching rounds, which are fired from a shotgun or something else?

Thanks for the input. I really appreciate it.

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These are the world's dumbest cops - again.

If they're called out to a home invasion, they're not about to go flashing lights into the house to announce their presence before they know wtf is going on.

How do they know there's an immediate danger that'd require busting down the door, and how would busting down the door help?

Okay, you are asking for a lot of details that vary greatly on situations. No police officers use breaching rounds, they use a ram. And that's a SWAT or response team tactic, it's not a piece of equipment they carry in every patrol vehicle.

Now, if they know there is someone inside in imminent danger, they will enter. Normally a pair or more, rarely would a single officer enter. Often a canine would be on scene before entry. If the bad guys "invaded" then there will be an opening they can enter through. From there they will follow a standard building clearing process unless they know the situation.

Now, what do you need for your story? If you need someone to enter alone, it has to be a damned good reason. Like building on fire reason. If the bad guys haven't killed the occupant before the officers responded, then they won't likely kill them just because officers have arrived. Run, hold hostage or make a stand, yes. Kill someone, no. Just knowing bad guys are inside and someone else might be is not enough reason for officers to risk their lives, let alone their careers. Happens in movies, not in real life. Haste is not a common trait drilled into cops during training.

Jeff

ironpony said:

Well busting down the door would help, because they can get to the owner, before the owner could be killed. Why does he think the owner will be killed? And cop's are suppose to announce their presence in a situation like that, so the owner knows that it's the police and not some intruder. So isn't it okay for the officer to announce his presence? I read that that is what they are suppose to do, when entering a house to protect someone. See above.

And yes normally a single officer will not enter, but this particular character, is compelled to not let the owner die because of his character, so is compelled not to wait for back up, if the owner is in immediate danger, and he can see it in the windows. How can he see someone is in immediate danger? How does he think going in himself is going to save someone and not make it worse?

But if the cop can see an intruder with a mask and a gun, through the dark window, by shining a light on the window, World's dumbest cop. and the owner is in another room, is that not enough to enter? It is for him, since he is that type of character. What type of character? Dopey and ill-trained?

Now he could go all the way around to the back entrance of the house, where the intruder entered, but that would take more time. He feels he has to get in immediately, so if he doesn't have time to go all the way around to the back to where the back door was broken into, wouldn't he try to get in the front some way? WHY is this his plan, and if he hasn't even walked around the whole house, he's even dumber.

As for firing door breaching rounds into the locks, door breaching rounds are specifically designed to break into metal powder and not go through the other side of the door. They bust locks only and if someone else one the other side, the person will not be hit, or so the round is designed for. So after announcing that he is the police and to move, could he fire through the door then legally? He's run out of his car, shined a light through the front windows, said he's the cops and now magically has those rounds on him, knows the formation of the door, magically, and does this?

Plus I was told by a cop before, that the police have to announce their presence when going into someone's house to stop an intruder, so wouldn't he?

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This is situation-dependent.

A fence post pounder. Use the back end..why do patrol cars not stock these? can easily demolish the trim that actually closes a standard door. One whack to the knob and the door is open, not closeable again until repaired, but open.

For the nth time, why does he think the person is in imminent danger?

Some people might not think that he's an idiot. I would; I doubt I'm the only one.

You can, as we've said multiple times, write whatever you want. If you don't care if it makes real-world sense, fine.

No.

ironpony said:

But the intruder could not know the police have been called. What if he kills the owner, while the MC, and the arriving back up, choose to wait outside, and not announce their presence. What then?

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What if busting in to the house makes the guy shoot everyone? What if it was the person's ex? What if it's a hostage situation? What if it's eight other things? Cops don't go up to a house which may have an intruder and a resident and flash lights in the windows, then shoot at a fucking door. It's not rational behaviour. If they also have no backup, it's especially irrational.

Because a domestic violence situation is different than a random intruder situation.

Why does the cop think he can't wait to figure out what's going on and get backup? This is circular. How would the cop know the intruder is going to kill the person? There's NO REASON TO THINK THAT based on what you've said.

If you want him to bust into the house like an idiot, fine. Write whatever you want. It makes no logical sense, but you can write it.

You can keep asking the same question different ways, but the "real life" answer is going to be the same. I can't see any officer who is by himself breaking into the house instead of waiting for backup the way you described the situation.

You want to make your scenario a bit more believable give the officer a SOLID reason to think the homeowner is actively getting murdered, right this minute. Then, even if it against policy and common sense, at least the reader would buy the cop breaking in even just by himself.

I'm talking about: The officer pulls up, he sees a masked man enter the home through a window as he pulls up. The officer opens his door and starts to call in on the radio for backup. As he does that, he hears the homeowner SCREAMING through the now open window. The officer runs up, kicks the front door open, and goes toward the screaming. That would at least work in the story.

As for getting into the house, officers don't routinely carry rams and they especially do NOT have shotguns withe breaching rounds. That is specialized SWAT type stuff not in the typical patrol car.

However, you don't need it and neither does the officer in your story. In real life many if not most front doors are actually pretty easy to kick in. Seriously, it's easier than you think, unless the person specifically upgraded the door.

Just have the officer run up to the front door, kick it once, it starts to give, and then kick it again and the door breaks at the lock (still locked) and he partially knocks if off the frame and he goes in.

That's all it takes in many cases. Add in the fact he'd be amped up with the adreline going and it's not only realistic, it's believable. Much more so than using breeching rounds, a ram, or shooting the lock with his pistol.

Ironpony -- Some people write stories that stick with reality. Others don't. Many movies, TV shows, and books have been successful with no likelihood in reality. But this forum is designed to give real world answers. You might be able to create the exception to the rule, but if that's where you're aiming to go, you need to understand what is the correct procedure.

Police officers want to go home at night. They're not going to rush in to see what's going to happen.

And your bad guy isn't believable either. This victim is a witness. He or she can get the bad guy convicted. And so the bad guy sits around, maybe drinking a cup of tea, while he threatens this witness. Presuming the bad guy doesn't like to send threats by mail or phone, it only takes less than a minute to deliver a good threat and leave. Or shoot the witness and solve the problem.

You also need to understand how light works. If it is daytime, it's next to impossible to shine a flashlight through a window and see anything, unless you put your face right next to the window. You need a searchlight to generate enough light to overcome the outside sunlight. And if it is nighttime, you don't need a flashlight. You can see a long way away through the window. It's only when it's dark outside and inside that a flashlight would work, and that's only if the police officer thought no one was inside. It's very easy to be a target in the dark by holding a flashlight.

Jim Clark-Dawe

I'd suggest that PC Targetty McTargetface is going to be dead within a minute, along with the witness.

Who called the cops? If it's the witness, why didn't she leg it first and then make the call?

All three of these characters sound as if they deserve each other.

Ironpony -- Your bad guy kicks in the door, slams your victim against the wall, and says, "Testify and die." Bad guy then leaves. There's absolutely no reason for the bad guy to hang around any longer. Alternative is bad guy kicks in door, looks through house and can't find victim. Bad guy leaves.

One minute. That's it.

How fast do you think the cops can get there? Call to 9-1-1 takes about 20 seconds. Unless the cop is next door when the call comes in, the bad guy is going to be long gone before the cop shows up.

Unless the bad guy is sitting around drinking tea.

And that's assuming a bad guy dumb enough to show up in person.

I have a scene in my current work where my protagonist threatens someone. Scene runs for maybe a minute. That's it. And the threat is very effectively delivered.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Ironpony, with that many police procedural questions, I really suggest you call up your local police station and ask for a ride-along. Many police jurisdictions offer this service to local civilians interested in understanding what cops do. It's a PR thing.