How does this law work when it comes to warrants and police procedure?

ironpony

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In my story, I wanted to have a corrupt cop be guilty of felonies, but he becomes morally conscience stricken and wants to turn himself in and bring not only himself, but the others to justice.

However, this is tricky to write, because he is a cop. I was doing research, and in the law, a crook is allowed to turn in evidence on the people he is working with and that evidence will be admissible in court.

But if an officer tries it, it in a lot of instances, it will be considered legally tainted.

For example, if an officer spies on the others with a parabolic microphone and records their conversations without a warrant, the evidence is inadmissible. But if a crook does it, then it can be I read.

Or if a crook broke into his associates house, and took some physical evidence of a crime, such as a murder weapon, like a gun where forensics can be compared, and then turned it in, it can be used. But if it a cop does it, then it's tainted cause a cop cannot break into places and have the evidence be admissible.

However, since my character is a cop wanting to turn good, I thought he would be very limited in what he can do. But I asked a cop and did some further research and the cop said that a cop only needs warrants, and probable cause and things like that, if he is acting as an officer of the law. Since this cop in my story is already a criminal, and already involved in the criminal activity, that rule does not apply to him, the officer told me.

Now the mole does not want to turn himself in until he gets hard evidence on the villains activity first. No use turning yourself in and going to jail unless he has done some good out of first, he figures. So he doesn't tell his superiors and goes out and attempts to get the proof on his own.


I am rethinking a lot of the story, and I thought that another cop who happens to be on the case, the MC, can maybe help him and they can team up instead of having both of them working from opposite ends for their duration of the story.

However, legally would this be able to fly in court? A cop can only break into a house and get evidence that is admissible if the cop happens to be a police mole, working for the gang and has turned good, and not an honest cop on the investigation.

But if the MC who is investigating it, decides to team up with the mole, could this work legally? If the mole decides to get evidence in ways without a warrant or wire tap permission, can he do so, and then give it to the MC who can help him along the way, but he would be helping someone, who is committing breaking and entering and recording conversations without permission to get evidence? Can the MC still protect him as he does it and assist him in that area, but not the actual areas of the B & E and recordings?

What do you think?
 
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ironmikezero

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A corrupt cop with a crippling conscience, huh?

Okay, quick answer . . . While he's still on the job, everything he does that would in any way violate statutes, regulations, policies, etc., and the tangible results thereof would be fatally tainted and deemed inadmissible as evidence in a court proceeding (fruit of the poisoned tree). A savvy prosecutor wouldn't even consider it, knowing a defense counsel would easily win a motion to suppress.

However, despite being worthless as evidence, such tangible results (information, etc.) may be of certain intelligence value and thus be otherwise helpful in this or other cases. Of course, it would be incumbent upon the assigned investigators to develop further evidence through other (legal) means that would be subsequently admissible--it really does help when one knows generally where to look.

If your other cop (MC?) has knowledge of the corrupt cop's illicit activities, fails to report it up the chain of command, and they "team up" in furtherance of their mutual agenda, they are now both guilty of conspiracy (and a host of charges very likely to follow). Nothing either of them might do will likely produce any admissible evidence.

The only way around this would be if your MC did report it up the chain, and someone with appropriate (command) authority consulted with the prosecutor who elected to sanction an UC/IA investigation (keep in mind the target would be the corrupt cop). Also, remember that every case the corrupt cop ever worked on will be subject to review, and any resultant convictions very likely challenged. In any ordered retrials, his testimony/evidentiary contribution would be quite predictably disallowed, his credibility non-existent.

Your corrupt cop may as well go renegade and slay the bad guys in as spectacular a fashion that Hollywood could envision, because nothing he'll have done will stand up in court. (Actually, a big flashy climax doesn't sound too bad at all.)

Please understand that your fellow writers here on AW are not trying to discourage you--on the contrary, we urge to to write as your muse dictates. Deviate from the realm of pragmatic credibility as you deem fit (it is fiction, after all); just be aware of when you cross that line, because others certainly will be. No matter what path you choose, be true to yourself and enjoy the creative process. Best of Luck!
 

frimble3

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Why doesn't the corrupt cop, instead of turning himself in, just quit? A big ol' scene where he's yelling that he's tired of people suspecting him, and talking behind his back, and he's not going to take it, and they're not going to have him to shove around - so he slams his badge and gun on the boss's desk and stomps out. (Possibly snarling that he's not going to do anything stupid, so they won't lock him up as a danger to himself?)

Now, he's not a cop. How this would affect the legality of anything he might do next is a subject for people who know police stuff. If he then does his sneaking and evidence planting, then turns it over to the MC, would that work? If he turns himself in to the authorities for a plea deal to lessen his sentence (for corruption) in exchange for evidence against the other bad guys, would the evidence be valid? (His career wouldn't be salvageable, I doubt that after all this weirdness he could get a job as a policeman anywhere, but I gather that was never the point.)
 

jclarkdawe

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I like Ironmikezero's grand shoot out ending.

However, let's discuss the prison reality for your character. A cop who goes bad isn't too good a candidate for surviving prison. But a cop who went bad, then went good, then went to prison would have a life span measured in nano-seconds.

Ironmikezero summed out the legal situation. Nearly all of his convictions that were based on his testimony would be overturned. The evidence he turns up would be tainted. If it wasn't for the fact that most cops are good people, they'd probably succumb to their urge to give him a one-way trip to the bottom of some body of water.

Cops and crooks have a culture. It's a strange culture in many ways, but it's also very rational within their world. There are very few cops that think of themselves as bad. They rationalize and create a paradigm where their behavior is okay.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

ironpony

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A corrupt cop with a crippling conscience, huh?

Okay, quick answer . . . While he's still on the job, everything he does that would in any way violate statutes, regulations, policies, etc., and the tangible results thereof would be fatally tainted and deemed inadmissible as evidence in a court proceeding (fruit of the poisoned tree). A savvy prosecutor wouldn't even consider it, knowing a defense counsel would easily win a motion to suppress.

However, despite being worthless as evidence, such tangible results (information, etc.) may be of certain intelligence value and thus be otherwise helpful in this or other cases. Of course, it would be incumbent upon the assigned investigators to develop further evidence through other (legal) means that would be subsequently admissible--it really does help when one knows generally where to look.

If your other cop (MC?) has knowledge of the corrupt cop's illicit activities, fails to report it up the chain of command, and they "team up" in furtherance of their mutual agenda, they are now both guilty of conspiracy (and a host of charges very likely to follow). Nothing either of them might do will likely produce any admissible evidence.

Please understand that your fellow writers here on AW are not trying to discourage you--on the contrary, we urge to to write as your muse dictates. Deviate from the realm of pragmatic credibility as you deem fit (it is fiction, after all); just be aware of when you cross that line, because others certainly will be. No matter what path you choose, be true to yourself and enjoy the creative process. Best of Luck!

Okay thanks, I am not discouraged at the moment :). Well the MC is the other cop, yes. And he doesn't report the corrupt cops activities, cause he wants to bust the gang and bring them in on charges first. So does the corrupt cop. So they are both in it, without the interest of telling anyone cause by not telling anyone they can bust the gang first, before going forward with the corrupt cop's activities, or that is at least how I thought of writing it, so they could work alone.

Why doesn't the corrupt cop, instead of turning himself in, just quit? A big ol' scene where he's yelling that he's tired of people suspecting him, and talking behind his back, and he's not going to take it, and they're not going to have him to shove around - so he slams his badge and gun on the boss's desk and stomps out. (Possibly snarling that he's not going to do anything stupid, so they won't lock him up as a danger to himself?)

Now, he's not a cop. How this would affect the legality of anything he might do next is a subject for people who know police stuff. If he then does his sneaking and evidence planting, then turns it over to the MC, would that work? If he turns himself in to the authorities for a plea deal to lessen his sentence (for corruption) in exchange for evidence against the other bad guys, would the evidence be valid? (His career wouldn't be salvageable, I doubt that after all this weirdness he could get a job as a policeman anywhere, but I gather that was never the point.)

I asked the same cop before about this as well (the cop is no longer available for research for me now though), and he said that quitting would not make a difference in the legal world cause everything would still legally trace back to when he was a cop, and that would count in court.

I like Ironmikezero's grand shoot out ending.

Ironmikezero summed out the legal situation. Nearly all of his convictions that were based on his testimony would be overturned. The evidence he turns up would be tainted. If it wasn't for the fact that most cops are good people, they'd probably succumb to their urge to give him a one-way trip to the bottom of some body of water.

Cops and crooks have a culture. It's a strange culture in many ways, but it's also very rational within their world. There are very few cops that think of themselves as bad. They rationalize and create a paradigm where their behavior is okay.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Okay then. However, this corrupt cop is only a mole for a particular gang. So wouldn't only his investigations on that gang be a legal concern? Would his convictions on criminals who are not even related to the gang, such as felons guilty of crimes not related at all, all be overturned as well?

As far as the grand shoot out ending goes, I was not planning on having such a ending. In the thread I posted before, about the story where the MC has to locate where the villains buried a dead body... It's the same story. The dead body is the corrupt cop. So he dies before the ending, but I thought he could bring some evidence forth perhaps. Could the evidence be admissible if he dies and it's found during the murder investigation? Of course he would not plan on dying so he would still have to have an original plan of succeeding.

I was told by the cop before, when researching it, that a corrupt cop could bring evidence of his gang activity forward, as long as he wasn't part of the investigation of the gang, and taking 'short cuts'. Legally it doesn't count as short cuts, if you are complicit in the criminal activity he said. But this is not the same as short cutting and still inadmissible for other reasons then?
 
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frimble3

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Okay then. However, this corrupt cop is only a mole for a particular gang. So wouldn't only his investigations on that gang be a legal concern? Would his convictions on criminals who are not even related to the gang, such as felons guilty of crimes not related at all, all be overturned as well?
Maybe not, but why wouldn't people try? Who could trust his word or his work? How does anyone prove that he hasn't been playing both sides against the middle since his first month on the job? If I were the lawyer (IANAL) of any criminal ever convicted on the basis of his police work, I'd be in court appealing for all I'm worth. He makes the whole system look dirty. The prosecutors who used his evidence, the judges who allowed it, the juries who believed it.
 

ironpony

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Okay thanks. There have been real life cases, where crooks have termed themselves in but brought evidence on others and cut deals before though. What made those crooks believable in court, when ratting out their fellow gang members, compared to this situation? If prosecutors, and judges and juries, have accepted the words of rats before, why is this one the exception to the rule?
 

frimble3

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Speculation on my part, gathered from the news and true-crime stuff: Because a crook has been 'honestly' dishonest - when he was a crook, he was an honest crook. If he changes his mind, and honestly testifies to what he saw, he's still 'honest': telling the truth about his crimes and others, and what he says matches what the police already know.
If a man goes 'properly' undercover, pretending to be a criminal to get evidence for the police, the police know what he's up to - he's upfront with them about what he's doing, they would have approved his actions.

Lying to everybody and then claiming to have 'evidence', well, who knows that you haven't lied about the evidence, as well? You can't run with the fox and hunt with the hounds, not unless it's been pre-arranged with the huntsman or the head fox.
 

ironpony

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I understand that but what about real life cases when police will give criminals deals if they flip? The court still trusts the juries to take these criminals a their word after being offered deals, when they could be lying to get a deal, so how these criminals believable, compared to mine?
 

ironmikezero

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Police do not have the authority to make "deals" regarding prosecutorial discretion; that lies with the prosecutor for the jurisdiction. Police can and do make recommendations to the prosecutor based on the degree of cooperation forthcoming from a suspect under such scrutiny. Pursuant to the court rules of procedure/evidence, at some point any such deals typically must be fully disclosed to the court and the defense.

The credibility of such witnesses is always called into question. Consequently, savvy prosecutors will almost always seek corroborative evidence developed through independent means to further support such dubious witness testimony/evidence; whereas the defense will seek corresponding/pertinent evidence to refute such testimony/evidence. That's an inherent aspect of an adversarial judicial process.
 

jclarkdawe

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Police officers frequently have discretion on what they charge. They can stack charges, and decide not to charge.

Typical deal is very simple. Guy gets busted and rolls on his buddy. He that offers testimony first gets the deal, the rest get screwed. Usually the police have a fairly complete case, and want to gild the lily. After all, they did the bust and must have had some evidence to do that.

The testimony isn't especially accepted.

But your big problem here is that you have a cop. He's not always viewed by many people as reliable on the witness stand. Then he went bad. And now you want us to buy that he's swung back the other way. You're going to be having virtually every type of juror not believing him for various reasons.

By and large, bad cops only testify against other bad cops. It's like one big stinking pile of turds smelling a bit less than the other big stinking piles of turd. It's a hard case to pull off, and usually involves the testifying cop wearing a wire.

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

ironpony

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Okay thanks. When you say that when a rat rolls on the others and that the testimony isn't especially accepted, are you saying that the rat typically does not testify in court, and just rats out the others, and that's it? Does the rat still need to bring in physical evidence as proof, so the case will hold together, and his deal can be accepted?

Does the prosecutor just use that evidence and say he got it from a rat, and they don't call the rat to the stand, or how does that work?

What if the rat wore a wire or recorded phone conversations?
 

ironpony

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Okay thanks. When you say that when a rat rolls on the others and that the testimony isn't especially accepted, are you saying that the rat typically does not testify in court, and just rats out the others, and that's it?

What if the cop in this case, wore a wire, would that help overcome the problem?
 
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jclarkdawe

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You put the rat on to testify like you put a birthday candle on the cake. It's essential, but doesn't do anything for the taste of the cake. The prosecutor puffs the candle up, and the defense attorney blows it out. In the end, the rat rarely matters.

Physical evidence is always a plus. People like what they can see and feel. Rat can be used to explain where the physical evidence came from. Wires can work and are often used. All sorts of process to get approval for a wire.

Jim Clakr-Dawe
 

ironpony

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Okay then. Now you said that the main character cop, the more honest cop, would be in trouble for conspiracy, for not reporting who the rat was right away. But if the MC, is going to report a fellow cop for being a mole, would he want proof first, or is it better not to wait and report it, even though it's only his word, but with no actual proof?

The MC, figures that he wants to work with the crooked cop that is turned good, and wait for him to get his physical proof, before they both go to the police. So if the MC helps him get the physical proof first, could that work in his favor of bringing in the evidence and reporting him after getting the proof, or would he still be guilty of conspiracy, for not reporting him before, when all it would be is his word, against the crooked cop's?