Is this too familiar?

efreysson · Apr 4, 2016

I just thought of a new feature of my new space opera setting, and I would appreciate some opinions.

The setting is one with easy space travel, in kilometres-long warships, plasma guns, swords, mysticism, supernatural evil, and little regard for actual science.

The new feature is one I'm planning to keep in the background for now, but maybe do more with later. It's an ancient, extinct order of do-gooders with supernatural powers, and if I do go ahead with my idea there will be a story dedicated to restoring the order.

I was pondering possible names and came up with "Saints of Luana", or "Knights of Luana".

Does this all sound too similar to the Jedi? I want to go with the "Knights" name, as it fits the culture, but of course the full Jedi title is "Jedi Knight".

I'll be upfront: The whole idea IS inspired by the Jedi, and my desire to do my own version of them to make the setting more colourful. My guys don't wield energy swords, but I'm still wondering where the line is between inspiration and ripoff, especially with a such a well-known thing.

Thoughts?

Aggy B. · Apr 5, 2016

Knight is not limited to the Star Wars franchise. Making it not seem like a rip-off will be in the details. (Remembering, of course, that the Jedi Knights were an amalgamation of a bunch of other things that already existed. The general idea was not unique to Lucas.)

Marlys · Apr 5, 2016

I'd say the difference between inspiration and ripoff is in the creativity--how much is the inciting idea transformed?

Well, it's like Oz but Tabitha and her friends the Timid Tiger and Copper Automaton take a road made of green cobbles instead of yellow brick, and the Sorceror lives in Ruby City. <--thinly-disguised fan fic with a few details changed

Well, it's Oz, but the struggle of good versus evil is played out in the revolt of the subjugated underclass (who are not vertically-challenged) against two evil forces who are sort of analogous to the Wicked Witch and Wizard, but the setting is a fully-developed industrial world based on nuclear power, and the "witch" doesn't have any powers except the privilege of her birth and her privately-funded security force. <--probably transformed enough that you'd have to tell people what your inspiration was

Hard to say where the line is sometimes, but for me, if I picked up your book and could tell those were light-saberless Jedi in a different setting, I'd put it right back down.

Albedo · Apr 5, 2016

Where do their supernatural powers come from? If from a mystical all-pervading life force, called "The [capitalised common noun]", then people will think Star Wars ripoff.

Is there a lost rival order that was the yin to their yang? Is there any prophecy about balancing the [common noun]? Then ditto.

So you could them draw their powers from, I dunno, an alien artifact instead of ~~midichlorians~~ the life force of the universe, and make their enemies a different state or religion instead of the Ancient Order of Arbitrarily Assigned Antagonist Identity.

efreysson · Apr 5, 2016

Aggy B. said:
(Remembering, of course, that the Jedi Knights were an amalgamation of a bunch of other things that already existed. The general idea was not unique to Lucas.)

I know. But the Jedi have become pretty major pop culture figures. Hence my hesitation about an order of benevolent space knights with mystical powers.

Albedo said:
Where do their supernatural powers come from? If from a mystical all-pervading life force, called "The [capitalised common noun]", then people will think Star Wars ripoff.

Is there a lost rival order that was the yin to their yang? Is there any prophecy about balancing the [common noun]? Then ditto.

No prophecy, no. And there IS an evil cult, but their powers function differently, and come from a different source. I actually have three mystic orders, each one with a different outlook and powerset. [/quote]

MonsterTamer · Apr 5, 2016

I didn't think Jedi until I came the sentence in your post where you mentioned it.

randi.lee · Apr 5, 2016

Shake it up enough and no one will notice the similarities. You're good.

Albedo · Apr 5, 2016

efreysson said:
No prophecy, no. And there IS an evil cult, but their powers function differently, and come from a different source. I actually have three mystic orders, each one with a different outlook and powerset.

I like this! It might be interesting, especially if each order is mutually antagonistic towards the other two.

efreysson · Apr 5, 2016

Well, I sat down with a pen an a piece of paper and gave the whole thing more thought, and I've come up with a set of powers for my not-Jedi. No telekinesis, no mind tricks, no visions, and no blaster-shot deflection. And not the emphasis on serenity.

PeteMC · Apr 6, 2016

I must admit I was thinking you had re-invented WH40K until you said 'Jedi'!

rwm4768 · Apr 6, 2016

I don't care if it's too familiar. I want to read it.

efreysson · Apr 6, 2016

rwm4768 said:
I don't care if it's too familiar. I want to read it.

Well, the first short is coming to Amazon this month.

Though the not-Jedi won't be coming into the picture for a while.

L. OBrien · Apr 6, 2016

Jedi was the first thing that I thought of when I saw the description, though like someone else already pointed out, space-knights don't belong to Starwars. The big question is how exactly are they different? I scrolled through the thread, and I couldn't find much elaborating how exactly your knightly order deviates from the Jedi, and what makes them unique to your story.

efreysson · Apr 6, 2016

L. OBrien said:
Jedi was the first thing that I thought of when I saw the description, though like someone else already pointed out, space-knights don't belong to Starwars. The big question is how exactly are they different? I scrolled through the thread, and I couldn't find much elaborating how exactly your knightly order deviates from the Jedi, and what makes them unique to your story.

Well, this whole thing only occurred to me two days ago, but what I have so far:

The core of the power is basically life energy, and their ability to manipulate it. They can sense living beings within a certain radius, can power their own aura to form a protective shield, can regenerate, can interact with other people's life force by touching them, and can use more power by linking with more people, drawing on their strength as well.
The idea is these abilities are implied to come from an individual deity (implied, because I want to keep spiritual stuff mysterious and vague), and the whole thing requires a ritual at a particular place.
And their strength comes from passion, rather than meditation and serenity. There's no Dark Side to this. Those that fail just weaken and can't use their powers properly. And while they do carry swords, as they are commonly used to get through the setting's anti-gun armour, they ALSO carry guns.

Jenkki · Apr 8, 2016

The setting is one with easy space travel, in kilometres-long warships, plasma guns, swords, mysticism, supernatural evil, and little regard for actual science.

That sounded exactly like Star Wars to me, before you even got to your knights.

Let's say you are familiar with Japanese videogames. Look how the game Dante's Inferno reinvented the Renaissance Italian classic. It added an Elric-type hero, a bunch of crazy shit, it's not even recognizable as some classic you were forced to read in college. It's fine to have influences, but you have to rise above them, boldly, to make yourself known.

Maybe you've done that in your worldbuilding, probably you have. But the way you are presenting what you've done, is too standard, too generic. Focus on what inspires you and makes your world better, and follow that.

rwm4768 · Apr 8, 2016

Jenkki said:
That sounded exactly like Star Wars to me, before you even got to your knights.

Let's say you are familiar with Japanese videogames. Look how the game Dante's Inferno reinvented the Renaissance Italian classic. It added an Elric-type hero, a bunch of crazy shit, it's not even recognizable as some classic you were forced to read in college. It's fine to have influences, but you have to rise above them, boldly, to make yourself known.

Maybe you've done that in your worldbuilding, probably you have. But the way you are presenting what you've done, is too standard, too generic. Focus on what inspires you and makes your world better, and follow that.

As a reader, I don't care so much if the setting is familiar. I'm there for the story and characters. If the setting is fun and fits the story, it works for me.

Taylor Harbin · Apr 9, 2016

The concept of a knight will be with us till the end of time. They made a huge impact on the world and there are still many fraternal orders today. I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you can make your characters' belief system more coherent and logical than the Prequel trilogy's fear-is-the-path-to-the-dark-side garbage (seriously, how vague can you get?), I'd say you're good. It might help if you read up on various orders, learn why they were called such, how they practiced their religion, extrapolate on that and use it to add your own unique flavor.

Can't get enough space opera!

jferngler · Apr 10, 2016

PeteMC said:
I must admit I was thinking you had re-invented WH40K until you said 'Jedi'!

This was my initial impression as well.

efreysson · Apr 15, 2016

jferngler said:
This was my initial impression as well.

No no, my pauldrons are reasonably sized.

JimmyB27 · Apr 15, 2016

efreysson said:
The setting is one with easy space travel, in kilometres-long warships, plasma guns, swords, mysticism, supernatural evil, and little regard for actual science.

This made me think more of Warhammer 40K than Star Wars, but that might be because I was reading about some 40K computer games this morning.

ETA: Just noticed I wasn't the first to think this. Maybe I need to concentrate on the originality of my posts...

Laer Carroll · Apr 15, 2016

We all get inspired by other works. It's just the way our minds work: "That's neat; but what if....?" How many Odysseys have been written over the centuries? How many Robinson Crusoes? Or Little Women?

The trick will be to live with your version long and well, so you can keep coming up with alternatives to elements within the original that seem fresh.

I suggest you finish the book, set it aside long enough to get a more objective perspective, then come back to it. If it still seems too derivative, at least you've had a great time writing the book. You've also practiced your craft and likely become better at it. And maybe a year or five from now you'll come up with a way to use all or part of the book to create something much more original.

Common · Apr 15, 2016

Honestly I think no matter what you do some people are going to be reminded of Star Wars. That could be good or bad. Someone could read this story and think "They are like Jedi's but with (whatever you differences are)". They may enjoy that.

efreysson · Apr 15, 2016

Common said:
Honestly I think no matter what you do some people are going to be reminded of Star Wars. That could be good or bad. Someone could read this story and think "They are like Jedi's but with (whatever you differences are)". They may enjoy that.

Well, the more thought I've given my not-Jedi, the more different they have gotten. The powers are pretty much completely different, as is their history, structure and essential nature. The only remaining similarities are "mystical do-gooders in a space opera setting" and my planned use of the title "knight".

Is this too familiar?

Closer than ever

Not as sweet as you think

Resist. Love. Go outside.

Alex

Closer than ever

Certified Non-Genius

Alex

Closer than ever

@PeteMC666

practical experience, FTW

Closer than ever

Closer than ever

practical experience, FTW

Power to the pen!

Morgleblorg

Closer than ever

Hoopy frood

Aerospace engineer turned writer

Closer than ever