A body sinking in a pool

Okay, there's a lot of variables here. Starting point is the ratio of lean muscle to fat. Fat floats better than lean muscle. Water salinity, PH, and chlorine effect the ability of a body to float. For example, if you look at the Red Sea or the Great Salt Lake, you'll see a massive floating ability.

Then there's time in relationship to decomposition. As the body decomposes, especially in our GI tract, we produce gases that provide flotation. These gases will eventually leak out of a body. However, usually at around a week, a body will float back to the surface to sink again in another week. Again, lots of variables.

On one hand, I don't think there's any scientific formula to determine this. But I know a lot of guys who deal with this sort of thing who can do a fairly accurate guess.

So working through the guess.

Gunshot enters the chest, hitting heart or aorta, and causing the body to collapse. Body collapses into a pool. Victim is probably not dead on a technical level, but is unresponsive. Patient would fall below the surface of the water and then float to the surface in the classic dead man float position. Patient would be unable to breath and would probably die from drowning, with a secondary cause of gunshot to the chest.

Assuming a reasonably young, athletic male, he'd probably float for about one to two hours, before gradually sinking. Probably two to four hours after being shot, he'd probably sink to the bottom of the pool. If he was in a lake, probably after about six to twelve hours, he'd be floating about 30 - 40 feet below the surface, gradually sinking lower over the next couple days before he started rising. Probably five to ten days later, he'll be back on the surface, but just barely. It's possible his floating might not cause him to come to the surface.

And in addition, clothing can also effect this. A good pair of work boots and you sink faster.

He won't float on his back without something else causing the body to rotate. A bunch of coins in his back pants pocket could do it. Boots could. Maybe a cell phone in a back pocket. But the natural orientation of the human body is face down.

I'm sure that at any given point, a doctor could calculate out his flotation and orientation.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Jim, why do bodies float face down?

I agree with the squirrel. The guy would float face down from the beginning, unless there is something weighing him so that he rolls back down. Heavy boots will do that, because they will make the feet lower and make the knees bend, so the natural position will be with the body bent backwards at the waist, so the face will be up, but that position will also make him sink faster.

Maze Runner -- Realize you just need to be plausible here. For a never been done before as far as I know, have him fall into the shallow end of the pool, feet on the ground because of boots, head floating. Gunshot wound to the lungs, so he can thrash his way around to face up. You'll get some nice frothing at the mouth, the chest wound will be bubbling underwater, and with him dying three to five minutes into this.

I don't know that this would work, but it should. It makes sense logically.

Mirandashell -- I don't know why we float on our stomachs, back side up. I would assume it has to do with our fat distribution. But you can easily check to see what you'll do by jumping into deep water and see which way you float.

This is actually a big problem for life jackets. Without some extensive work, life jackets make us float, but face down. For example, the life jackets on the Titanic worked very well, and many people floated for months before disappearing. Problem was they floated face down and died of drowning, not hypothermia. Probably won't have made a difference in the end, but ...

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

The modern style life jacket was developed because of the problem that Jim mentioned. They were called "mae Wests" because they had and still have large inflatable floats on the chests and can make people appear to be as well endowed as Mae West was.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_flotation_device#Mae_West

This is a demonstration of a Victorian life jacket, like were on the Titanic. But without using an actual drowning victim, this is a good demonstration of the natural body position of a drowning victim. Notice that the body is oriented around 30 degrees, feet down. Shoes have an impact on this angle. Hands will extend to the side.

Without the life jacket, the victim will have their shoulders below water level with their ears below water level as well. In other words, little positive buoyancy. Initially, the non-swimming victim will be in a more vertical position, with a water line a bit above the nose. But that stage lasts for only a couple of minutes. However, boots would keep that vertical position longer.

Drowning is not very dramatic.

One additional fact is that a gunshot wound to the chest will leak air, causing bubbling in the water. Probably will be red, frothing bubbles. If the exit wound is massive, there will probably be chunks of flesh floating loose.

I think if the body was floating face up, you'd probably have only the eyes barely above water. The nostrils would be below water. Bodies float a lot lower in the water than you think.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

I don't know if it makes any difference, but some people naturally sink. It's a matter of average body density. I was such a person in my youth, but I haven't checked it out recently. If you want your character to sink, then let him.

Maze Runner said:

Jim, red frothing bubbles from the chest, with only the eyes visible is tempting.

I'm a little thick today, so are we saying that the body would almost immediately turn onto its front, barring some weight in the back, whether it be a cell phone or boots or such? I only need a minute or two.

And, King, I too can't float to save my life.

Click to expand...

The body floating that way is the result of how weight is distributed, especially if the muscles are not tensed or doing something. The arms will tend to loosely bend in front, and that moves weight forward, and the torso will tend to bend somewhat in the abdomen, which would lead to forward tilt, and the neck will also bend forward. Also, the most buoyant part of the body is the chest, because that where the lungs are; the rest of the body is a little denser than water, so it will sink. That may not seem to make sense, but test it someday when you are swimming.

Maze Runner said:

No, it does make sense. That's exactly how it's felt when I've tried to float on my back.

And yet, I look around, and others seem to manage it.

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Floating on one's back is largely a matter of using the arms as outriggers to keep from rolling over, but I have a tendency to float with just part of my face above water, unless I fully exhale and develop negative buoyancy.

Ignoring the GSW, a person drowning will assume a vertical position, with just the top of the head floating. As muscle control disappears, and the person becomes closer to death, the body will gradually obtain the position shown in the picture. But by gradual here, I'm talking two to five minutes. Very little of the body is going to be above water level. Just the back of the head, maybe the tops of the ears.

Very few lean people float well. It involves being able to remove tension entirely from your muscles, which isn't easily done. Fat people usually float better. And you'll find you float differently in the ocean than a lake. Swimming pools usually increase buoyancy, although not as much as the ocean.

The more I think about, I'm not sure the GSW would effect the drowning process, other than speeding it up.

If you fall into the water backwards and relatively flat and very dead, your body will gradually rotate into a face down position. And this is with a significant rotational force.

So much here depends upon a combination of how close to death the guy is when he goes into the water and how calm he is in water. When we're disoriented, we tend to panic and panic increases the drowning factor.

My impression is that they're going to discover the body within five minutes after it enters the water. So he's shot and drops into the deep end of the pool, with heavy shoes. He's still alive in the technical sense, but virtually non-responsive from the GSW. Body falls on its back as it hits the water, but as the body goes down from the fall, the feet sink a little quicker and the body obtains a vertical orientation. Probably the body will continue downwards until the feet reach the bottom.

At that point, there may be some instinctive push to the surface, there will also be some compression of the body which will then cause a bit of a spring, and there's also a natural tendency to come to the surface. As the victim dies, both from the GSW and the drowning, the body will start bobbing, but still maintaining a vertical orientation. Not much of the body will be clearing the surface.

At about five minutes after entering the water, the body should be dead, although possibility of some remaining heart function. Or in other words, CPR could work. Of course, with a GSW to the chest, chances are next to impossible. Position would be relatively vertical. Eyes would probably be at water level, and as the body bobs from the motion of the water, go above and below the water line. GSW would still be leaking air and blood.

Gradually over the next three or four minutes, the body will rotate into a face down position, with a vertical orientation probably around 60 degrees, or more vertical than normal.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe