Is this common sense, or am I being biased?

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special needs

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Eh, I’m out of it today. Hope you can follow…



I know the vast majority of the population here won’t know much about horseracing (it’s not exactly a ‘popular sport’ and, after all, this is a writing forum) but I wanted to ask this question here (as opposed to on a racing site) because I want the opinion of someone who isn’t completely in love with the horse this question is about.



Some background:

The 2005 Preakness Stakes was won by Afleet Alex, a horse who clipped heels with Scrappy T and stumbled. Scrappy T lugged out, however (losing both ground and momentum) and while Afleet Alex went down on one foreleg and lost his momentum, he didn’t lose any ground. Of course, Afleet Alex picked himself back up within an instant and went on to win the race.

The problem I have comes here. Following the Preakness, Afleet Alex was dubbed “Iron Horse” (A name given to only one other horse….Citation, the greatest horse of all time) as well as “brave” and “full of heart.” This may all be true but doesn’t it seem normal for a horse to do this?

By this a mean, say you, yourself, happened to be running a race. (Against humans, that is). If you tripped, went down onto a knee, then stood up…..would you keep going? Would you stop just because you tripped? Is it incorrect to say anyone trying to win a race would continue running if they were uninjured in a little stumble? Does this person deserve to be called “brave” and “made of iron” because they accidentally tripped and continued the race?

I’ve also seen people call him “brave” for trying to pick himself up from the stumble in the first place. Would it make any sense for him to decide to just fall flat on his face? The horse was trying to save his life…did he have a real choice?




Am I being biased because I obviously don’t like this horse? If this is the case, then I will just stand back and be impressed by what is ‘impressive’. Or is it, by a chance, possible that this actually makes sense…?

 
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special needs

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Ok...I fixed it...can't seem to stop doing stupid things today....my brain is oddly vacant.
 

Jcomp

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Don't racehorses get shot for breaking a leg though? I mean, they don't know that of course, but using your analogy of human beings racing, if I knew that I'd get shot if I broke my leg I'd be racing mighty slow to begin with. And getting up after tripping? Only to show that my tibia is in fact whole, not fractured thank you. Put away your Winchester kind sir...
 

special needs

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Define 'breaking' a leg? Horses can have a wide variety of 'breaks' in their legs. For instance, Bellamy Road 'popped his splint' in his last 2 starts. Afleet Alex was retired when part of his bone 'went dead'. (Actually, I'm almost completely sure that this is a lie...but I don't want to get into that and drive myself crazy) They don't ever get 'shot', of course, but they may be euthanized if they break their cannon bone. Of course, horses such as Mariah's Storm have survived breaks of their cannon bone.
 

pconsidine

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Assuming you're telling the story reasonably objectively, I'm with you. I don't see anything brave or otherwise noteworthy in an animal doing what was in its best interest. Of course, you all now know how I rated on the Machiavelli Test, so maybe you should consider the source.
 

veinglory

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I only have limited experience but I would be pretty impressed with a thoroughbred at full gallop that went down to the point of its knee hitting the ground and just kept going. They are big and fast and high strung. They hit the ground pretty hard and often have the coping skills of a wild antelope on PCP. One that had fallen that far down would tend to hurt itslef slow down, go sideways, freak out or give up.

Remember a thoroughbred horse is generally running like a prey animal, all worked up and frightened. Only very few really seem to get that they are racing, let alone 'want' to win.
 

special needs

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I have ridden racehorses who've gone down and kept going. Never once did I ride one of them, go back to the barn, and be told my horse was 'brave' or 'made of iron'. Horses aren't generally frightened during races. Of course, I have never ridden one, but I've ridden in workouts (which simulate races) and only the babies are generally 'frightened'. Most have a genuine desire to win, due to hundreds of years of careful breeding.

But, yes, I can see how someone would be impressed that he fell then won the race anyway. (Admittedly, the horse who knocked him down was the only other in contention and his jockey held him back following because if Scrappy T had won won, Ramon would have been suspended). You could call that horse athletic, maybe. But brave? He's brave for trying to save his own life? It's not even as if he made a concious decision..he did what was natural.

If I have to make a choice in a split second of dying or putting out a knee, I'd put out the knee.... no one has ever called me brave!
 

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As a big horse racing fan myself, Special, I do agree that the whole "Brave Warrior" angle was a bit overplayed. I think it had a lot to do with the whole backstory, with the lemonade stands and all.

I think it was impressive, as he did remain focused and got back into stride remarkably quickly, but as usual, the media tended to overhype a sympathetic athlete's feat.


However, my picture of Secretariat crossing the finish line at The Belmont, which sits proudly right over my computer, takes issue with your stance that Ciatation was the greatest ever.
biggrin.gif
 

kikazaru

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This year during an Olympic cross country skiing race, one racer (Finnish or Norwegian I believe) started out as the favourite,yet shortly after starting the race he broke a pole and fell. Some kind soul in the crowd handed him an other pole and he was well behind for miles for most of the race, and then with what seemed like super human effort, came in 3rd. This to me was actually much more impressive than the achievement of the person who won the race.

So to answer your question, yes imo the horse deserved his accolades. He could have just given up, it could have put him off his stride, yet his drive to win was such that he overcame this set back, redoubled his efforts and this resulted in his win.
 

special needs

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Yeah, however, if you just got your legs under you after a stumble, and someone started hitting you on the butt with a whip...would you just stand there or would you run? I don't think that's showing a drive to win that was greater than that of any other horse in the race....though my issue is with his bravery and not whether or not he had a desire to win or was athletic...
 
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Unique

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Race horses are trained to run. He fell down, got back up, and kept running.

Was that supposed to be unusual? He was doing what he was trained to do. Even when you get hurt, sometimes you don't realize it til quite a while afterward; so, no, it doesn't sound "special" to me.
 

special needs

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Unique said:
Race horses are trained to run. He fell down, got back up, and kept running.

Was that supposed to be unusual? He was doing what he was trained to do. Even when you get hurt, sometimes you don't realize it til quite a while afterward; so, no, it doesn't sound "special" to me.

We're getting married.
 

robeiae

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CurtisCandy said:
However, my picture of Secretariat crossing the finish line at The Belmont, which sits proudly right over my computer, takes issue with your stance that Ciatation was the greatest ever.
biggrin.gif
I was so about to post this same thought. Secretariat would've kicked Citation's hind quarters.

Rob :)
 

special needs

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However, Eddie Arcaro, arguably the greatest jockey of all time, disagrees. Quote: "Citation is the greatest horse I ever saw, and I never saw Man o War, but I saw and rode Kelso and I saw Secretariat."

Of course, I must wonder...if Secretariat is superior to Citation, why he was only able to equal Cy's walkover time while running in the 1973 Derby...when Cy obviously had no competition and was held the entire way.
 

robeiae

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special needs said:
Of course, I must wonder...if Secretariat is superior to Citation, why he was only able to equal Cy's walkover time while running in the 1973 Derby...when Cy obviously had no competition and was held the entire way.
And yet, Secretariat set course records at all three Triple Crown races...sometimes, it's all in the competition and the way the race is run. Then, there will always be the Belmont.

Rob :)
 

special needs

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Correction: Two of the Triple Crown races :) ...it doesn't count that other people clocked him in a record time in the Preakness. After all, I've tried clocking a few times before, and I always get a time about 5 seconds faster that the actual one... anticipation gets to me. The official time didn't break it, so it doesn't count.

The Belmont fell apart. I could have won that race, myself. It's rather easy to win a race when you break the leg (and heart) of your only competition...
 

special needs

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LOL! It's strange the Bloodhorse that made that list is the very same Bloodhorse that helped create some of the 'simulated' races that placed Citation over Secretariat and Man o War 3/4 times.

...I am embarrassed for Citation. He beat amazing older horses before the Triple Crown and beat some very good ones by 8 lengths on an injury. -cough- Secretariat on the other hand...well...Onion anyone?
 

robeiae

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Then, there's this:

A lesser-known but perhaps more awesome accomplishment of his took place in that year's Derby. On his way to a still-standing record time in that race (1:59 2/5), he achieved the unheard-of feat of running each quarter-mile (402 m) segment fractionally faster than the one before it. The successive quarter-mile times were: 25 1/5, 24, 23 4/5, 23 2/5 and 23.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_%28horse%29

Rob :)
 

special needs

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But Onion? No comment on Onion?

Oh, and Cy's 16 race win streak, only equaled since the 1950s?

Note: It's not unheard of for a horse to do that...they do it in Australia all the time. :D
 
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louisgodwin

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veinglory said:
Only very few really seem to get that they are racing, let alone 'want' to win.

Heh, heh, heh. You oughta see some of my horses when I let them out of their pens to run around my property. I can go inside my house and it sounds like I'm at a race track with all the thundering hooves galloping about.

I used to have 2 geldings (quarter horses, not thoroughbreds) who were incredibly competitive with each other. One of them was bigger and faster, and would normally win. But if the smaller, younger, less muscular one started getting ahead of him, he would back his ears, squint his eyes and give it all he got until he caught up with him.

However, we don't race our horses here. We just breed show-horses. I think some horses just have a natural competitiveness when it comes to racing.
 

robeiae

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special needs said:
Oh, and Cy's 16 race win streak, only equaled since the 1950s?
That's the only number that truly favors Citation. The rest favor Secretariat. And no matter how you try to avoid it, you can't set the Belmont aside. Imagine what his time would have been if there had been a horse to push him that day.

And besides, all anyone has to do to squash both our positions is say 'Man-o-War.'

:D

Rob :)
 

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I read a true story about a race horse that went down and tore all its ligaments and still kept going until it reached the finish line. It was in excruciating agony, and according to the writer, it finished the race then stood patiently waiting to be put down. It knew. It sacrificed its life for the race. I can't get that image out of my head.
 

ATP

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janetbellinger said:
I read a true story about a race horse that went down and tore all its ligaments and still kept going until it reached the finish line. It was in excruciating agony, and according to the writer, it finished the race then stood patiently waiting to be put down. It knew. It sacrificed its life for the race. I can't get that image out of my head.

I consider this the more interesting story, rather than the one which started the thread. Do you have any more such stories about horses doing such things? Or other animals, and the 'quiet waiting' as you call it?

ATP
 

special needs

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I had a response all typed out and went to post it when the forum logged me out... :) Hence, all I have to say is this. "Citation is the greatest horse I ever saw and I saw Man o War." --Sunny Jim Fitzsimmons. (Said before Citation's 16 race winstreak, his walkover, his Triple Crown wins, ect.)

Horses will typically attempt to continue the race no matter how injured they are. The only exception I've seen, with my own two eyes, to this rule was Dance Daily's breakdown. Of course, if I force myself to watch that race one more time, I'm going to crack...but I still can't figure out why she didn't turn and run for the finish.
 
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