World Building: Animals, Foods, and Plants

Stormlord

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I'm not sure if there is a thread about this yet, but I'm wondering how far do you go with the world building? In my novel, I'm creating new creatures but I'm also keeping things like deer, but calling them another name. Yet sometimes I'll use fruits we have in our world, or I'll change a name of a tree slightly, but it's still basically that tree. How far do you take the world building? Do you think it's better to totally rename said creature or item? Kind of like in Trudi Canavan's "Black Magician Trilogy" where "Ceri" is a small rat, but they are never called rats. It seems to be a lot more work but it makes the world feel more real.
 

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I'm not sure if there is a thread about this yet, but I'm wondering how far do you go with the world building? In my novel, I'm creating new creatures but I'm also keeping things like deer, but calling them another name. Yet sometimes I'll use fruits we have in our world, or I'll change a name of a tree slightly, but it's still basically that tree. How far do you take the world building? Do you think it's better to totally rename said creature or item? Kind of like in Trudi Canavan's "Black Magician Trilogy" where "Ceri" is a small rat, but they are never called rats. It seems to be a lot more work but it makes the world feel more real.


You might want to have a look at this: Call a rabbit a "smeerp".
 

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You might want to have a look at this: Call a rabbit a "smeerp".

Haha, "Space this, Galactic that." I liked that article.
I wasn't sure to what degree I should rename things or if it's fine calling a rabbit, a rabbit, in a completely different world. What i've been doing is slightly altering creatures to make them fit the world. So a , for example, might be a "drake hare" that is a rabbit with scales.
 

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Keep in mind the human tendency to call half familiar things by familiar names. This works out well in SFF. If it looks like a deer and acts like a deer, call it a deer.

The world I'm playing with now was partly settled by human colonists who brought a limited variety of livestock with them. They have cows, sheep, goats, and a few types of fowl. Dogs survived the harsh conditions and the hostile native fauna, because they stuck close to their humans. Cats either were not on the ship (which I cannot believe; cats are everywhere) or more likely they got wiped out early by the local cat-analogues, which had poison, horns, and millions of years of evolution in that environment. Horses either were not on ship or did not survive, so 65,000 years later the riding animals are bred from the local 'deer' varieties. Or if one has a good relationship with them, one of the local, sentient apex predators.

Consider foodstuffs. An alien world will have very different lifeforms, and those may not be palatable or even digestible to humans. We're very adaptable and clever...the original forms of maize, soy, and cassava require chemical processes to become useful superfoods. So what might we do on an alien world or fantasy world?All this can be backstory to enrich your world and drive plot elements.
 

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Well, we don't know if a ceri is actually a rat. (I like Trudi Canavan's books.)

For me her reason to create something new to take the place of a rat was to allow a set of distinguishing nicknames for members of the underground. I wasn't too crazy about her mystery 4-footed beast, when people are riding horses. Personally, I think a writer has to use a very light touch when making new creatures - or giving existing creatures a different name. IMO, the later is to be avoided because it sounds old-fashioned and amateur.
 

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Well, we don't know if a ceri is actually a rat. (I like Trudi Canavan's books.)

For me her reason to create something new to take the place of a rat was to allow a set of distinguishing nicknames for members of the underground. I wasn't too crazy about her mystery 4-footed beast, when people are riding horses. Personally, I think a writer has to use a very light touch when making new creatures - or giving existing creatures a different name. IMO, the later is to be avoided because it sounds old-fashioned and amateur.

True, it was "ceryni" and it meant a small rodent, which could be anything. I have a bad memory haha But she has a vast amount of differences in her world, like different foods and drinks, names for venomous things, etc. I guess, in the end, my answer is to do what I feel is necessary. Of course, naming everything something else is ridiculous haha I'm sure there's a middle ground.
And Trudi Canavan is a great writer. I think I have all of her books haha
 

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The word "corn" existed for centuries before the people who used it had any idea that maize existed. When they encountered maize, they called it by the word they knew. Now in North America "corn" is only used as the name for maize. In other English-speaking places, "maize" is the normal name for maize and "corn" is still a generic grain-word.

So when your people encounter herds of smeerp, they will probably name them "rabbit". And when they talk about rabbits, it might be normal to observe the glossy colors of their neck-scales or take precaution against their venomous spit when trapped. But they're still rabbits and they'll eat your carrots if you let them in the garden.
 

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I'm not sure if there is a thread about this yet, but I'm wondering how far do you go with the world building? In my novel, I'm creating new creatures but I'm also keeping things like deer, but calling them another name. Yet sometimes I'll use fruits we have in our world, or I'll change a name of a tree slightly, but it's still basically that tree. How far do you take the world building? Do you think it's better to totally rename said creature or item? Kind of like in Trudi Canavan's "Black Magician Trilogy" where "Ceri" is a small rat, but they are never called rats. It seems to be a lot more work but it makes the world feel more real.

There's the old calling a rabbit a smeerp thing. I'll make up new names for creatures if I'm shooting for an ecosystem that isn't at all Earthlike, so I want to make it clear the smeerp really isn't really a rabbit at all. Or if I needed a plant or animal to fill a role in my world and there's nothing all that similar.

Some writers have a knack for creating exotic ecosystems that feel real and add depth and interest to their stories as well as driving certain plot elements. But there are also plenty of excellent fantasy novels that take place in worlds that feel a lot like ours in terms of the flora and fauna. Some are in between.

When writing a story set in an Earthlike world that isn't Earth, of course, there's no reason why the plant and animal distributions have to be identical to our own world, nor do the continents have to be in a similar orientation. So maybe they could have potatoes (say) native to a culture that's more like China in some ways, or giant, wooly tapirs pulling ploughs in a place that vaguely resembles medieval England.

And as Benberi said, "corn" was actually a generic term for grain that was used before Zea mays entered to European diet (I think they still prefer to call it maize in the UK). It threw me the first time I read a work of historical fiction where the characters were passing fields of "corn," because in the US, of course, what we popularly call cornfields are really "maizefields." I was all annoyed with the author for not knowing "corn" didn't come from the Americas. But I was actually the ignorant one, as that's what they'd have called wheat or oats back then.
 
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I like to use a combination of regular names and pepper in a few exceptions that ARE exceptions, not just a rabbit with a funny name.
 

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Since it is your world, you can call your creatures and fauna anything you want, including the real. In Meleena's world, I call them both. There's nothing wrong with mixing them. I use both natural and fantastical creatures. After all, I make the rules. I don't see where you have to go to the extremes just because it's a fantasy world. You don't have to overwhelm your reader with foreign (so to speak) words. There are already plenty of those words with creatures and names as it is. Throwing a few real plants and animals in with the fantastical makes for a healthy mix, at least in my thinking. Now, if you have NO fantastical creatures but just want to use different words for conventional words to make the world more immersive, that's another story (ha ha). Then again, to me, that's almost like just calling real creatures and plants the same thing in another language. If you don't alter them physically, you might as well name them in Spanish or something.
 

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Benbenberi and Roxxsmom are completely correct. Here is the proof:

Little Boy Blue


BY MOTHER GOOSE

Little boy blue,
Come blow your horn,
The sheep's in the meadow,
The cow's in the "corn."
But where is the boy
Who looks after the sheep?
He's under a haystack,
Fast asleep.

 
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neandermagnon

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And as Benberi said, "corn" was actually a generic term for grain that was used before Zea mays entered to European diet (I think they still prefer to call it maize in the UK). It threw me the first time I read a work of historical fiction where the characters were passing fields of "corn," because in the US, of course, what we popularly call cornfields are really "maizefields." I was all annoyed with the author for not knowing "corn" didn't come from the Americas. But I was actually the ignorant one, as that's what they'd have called wheat or oats back then.

I'm British and have always called maize sweetcorn (when it's fresh) or popcorn (when it's dried, before or after being "popped" to make popcorn - obviously if someone's eating popcorn it's been popped). Maize is used for the name of the actual plant or if you want to be technical about the plant name (like on ingredients if it's not being sold as sweetcorn).

If someone says "corn" to me, I think of wheat.
 

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We do sometimes say sweet corn in the US when talking about fresh corn (and if we're referring to a vegetable, especially when it's in season, that's what we're usually talking about) but there's also "field corn" and "dent corn" which is the stuff usually dried for cornmeal, animal feel or industrial processing. And popcorn is different from either of those.

On topic, I mostly empathize - I've got a multiverse situation where the main character from Earth has been dropped into. There's an animal that features prominently that I originally envisioned as a snake and that for now I'm having her call a snake but the creature is another world's and I keep wanting to attach Earth-connotations to it and oi...
 

neandermagnon

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Going back to the thread topic, I think it's more realistic if Earth people go to an alien world, that they use earth words or combinations of them to describe the flora and fauna they encounter there. Big plants will still get called trees. Big animals might get called something related to elephants, e.g. swamp elephants, purple elephants, whatever. And technically speaking, they wouldn't be plants or animals. They'd be alien organisms. But stationary organisms stuck in the ground will get called plants and ones that can move around will get called animals.

There are so many examples of this in languages where a newly discovered creature gets named after one that's been around for a while. You even get sea cucumbers and all sorts. Even seaweed - weed means plant. They found plants in the sea and called them seaweed. Tiger sharks. Elephant seals. Even some familiar animals, like hippopotamus, come from names of other animals (hippo means horse) and chimpanzee means "mock man" in an African language, due to its similarity to humans. Personally, I'd prefer a rabbit-like creature on another planet to have something else in its name besides just rabbit, even if it's not obviously alien, e.g. cliff rabbit, or something like that, because this indicates it's different to the rabbits I'm familiar with. This doesn't have to be for every creature, just enough to give the place a slightly alien feel to it.

In alt realities, I don't see the point of giving things different names just for the sake of it. If the story's written in English in an alternative version of our world then most if not all the names of things will be the same. That said, I like how it was done in the His Dark Materials, with some things in an alt universe having names that were different but had shared etymologies with the same or similar concepts in our world, because this highlighted that the world had a slightly different history to ours and it was done very well, i.e. subtle and very well thought out.
 
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Stormlord

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Perhaps I should be more specific in that I don't mean Earth people going to a foreign world haha My novel takes place in a totally different world. There are humans but they aren't Earth people. If I had to compare it to something, I would pick Jim Butcher's "Codex Alera" series. I like how tricky world building can be and how deep you can actually go. I'll have to mull it over. I haven't finished my first draft so that'll be the chance to go back and correct some things.
 

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Perhaps I should be more specific in that I don't mean Earth people going to a foreign world haha My novel takes place in a totally different world. There are humans but they aren't Earth people.

And you're writing it in English, so presumably all the dialog and all the pop narrative will have been "translated" from whatever the native language of the characters might be. Just another level of complication to include in your consideration. How relevant would it be to the narrative to emphasize the alien-ness of animals by giving them all made-up names, vs. how well do they fit the cultural/ecological template suggested by a familiar name? How much do you want them to stick out vs. how much do you want them to blend in?
 

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If someone says "corn" to me, I think of wheat.

Definitely a cross-pond difference, as "corn" here conjures up images of the grain that grows on (usually) yellowish ears with kernels (though we tend to treat it as a vegetable here in terms of its place in a meal). Sweet corn is, specifically, a pale variety with sweet, tender kernels that is meant to be eaten on the cob (with butter), which is distinct from feed corn, popcorn, yellow corn (usually removed from the ears and sold canned), or grinding corn that's used to make cornbread or tortillas.

Wheat is never referred to as corn here.

But getting back to the original topic, the name someone chooses for an animal or plant can definitely convey a cultural feel, even if you take the translation principle into account.

As for renaming everyday creatures, one thing that always annoyed me in McCaffrey's world was her "runnerbeasts." I always envisioned them as something distinct from horses. For some reason, I always imagined them as having horns on their noses. It wasn't until she wrote her Dragonsdawn books that I realized they were simply the descendants of the horses the colonists brought with them as frozen embryos.

Don't get me wrong; I liked the Dragonrider books. But that was a point of confusion that seemed unnecessary.
 
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Primus

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In my series my characters are human but they live on another world. I call trees, trees; water, water; and birds, birds; and they're classified as they are on earth: a spruce tree, or an ash or an oriole perched on a dogwood. To me it's unnecessary to rename things that are beyond ordinary to everyday life, personally because I think it's a waste of time, also because my world is inhabited by humans, no different from humans on earth, and my world is inspired by earth, so it just isn't necessary then. I want to transfer what's crucial and intrinsic on earth to my own world, names intact. That said, inventing anything new, like a tree, with characteristics that aren't found on earth, it makes since to give it a unique name, like a bluebeard tree. I've done such the thing for a species of snake. This I enjoy.

This is all personal preference though. My beliefs. It's up to you to decide. If you want to, go ahead. Dream big!
 

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I probably go too far! :)

I do a lot of research to create a planet, including software found on the net to aid in its design, Excel files of my own creation, calculations for stable orbital periods, moons, climate, axis tilt, physical makeup, companion planets, and it's parent star (including mass, spectral type, habitable zone, etc.).

I make drawings and thought maps and even do some scene renderings where needed and surface maps. None of these make it into the book. They are just tools.

For vegetation and animals I write basic descriptions of each. As for names, they are all made up and I try to make them different than Earth varieties, but I use what we know about life on Earth as a basis for what I create. In other words, I try to make my creations as probable as I can.

Humans witnessing these plants and animals will call them by what they associate them with. So a tree is still a tree, even if the bark and leaves are a little different. I write it as the characters see it.

If the character is not human, then they have their own perspective and as such, a unique name for everything. I'll describe it as the POV of the character sees it. Pretty simple.

So, I look at the environment I have created and search for indigenous Earth creatures that exist in that environment and use them as a basis to create my own. Again, this requires some research to categorize the important evolutionary traits that are required for the environment. You don't want a polar bear in the desert, obviously, so you look at what thrives on Earth's deserts and build from there.

I don't go crazy and try to make really weird creatures. I believe in convergent evolution. That theory states that given similar conditions in two independent environments, evolution will select similar solutions.
 
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Roxxsmom

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I don't go crazy and try to make really weird creatures. I believe in convergent evolution. That theory states that given similar conditions in two independent environments, evolution will select similar solutions.

Well, it works to a point. It helps if you start with a similar body plan. We have "mole like" and "squirrel like" animals that have evolved within several different groups of mammal, for instance. And thylacines (an extinct marsupial) bore a superficial resemblance to some carnivorous placental mammals. But we don't see "mole like" birds, because birds are two different from mammals to be molded into something like a mole. And we definitely don't see "mole like" earthworms and "mole like" echinoderms, because those animal phyla started with completely different body plans than vertebrate animals, let alone mammals, did. Burrowing forms have evolved in those groups, but they've developed different adaptations to that life style, ones that take advantage of the body parts they started with.

It's unlikely that you'll see a lot of convergence between, say, an arthropod (an animal phylum based on repeated pairs of legs and an exoskeleton and a ventral nerve cord) and a vertebrate, which is based on a skull, an internal support structure and a dorsal nerve cord, aside from very superficial things. You might see superficial convergence. For instance, snakes lost their legs and became more wormlike in shape, but they're still vertebrate animals with a backbone and lungs and all that, not worms. Even the different kinds of animals we call worms today come from different phyla and are very different in structure when we examine them. An earthworm is far more different from a tapeworm than we humans are from snakes.

So I seriously doubt we'll see anything that is exactly like a vertebrate animal, let alone one that's nearly indistinguishable from a specific species, like a rabbit, on an alien planet. It's actually easy to imagine an alternative reality where vertebrate animals didn't evolve at all on Earth. Pikaia, the earliest chordate fossil we've found so far, does not appear to be an especially abundant or widespread species compared to the earliest members of other animal groups (some of which are now extinct). If its lineage had gone extinct, none of the animals with backbones would have evolved at all on this planet.

Of course, with SF, we can speculate with all kinds of what ifs that could allow similar forms to evolve on distant planets. Even though I doubt it's probability, I enjoy reading stories with aliens that look like they evolved on Earth. To be fair to SF writers, it's darned hard for even a biologist to fathom a body plan that's not remotely based on any of the ones that have evolved here, let alone make it relatable to the sentient vertebrates who are reading the book.
 
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_TOG_

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It's unlikely that you'll see a lot of convergence between, say, an arthropod (an animal phylum based on repeated pairs of legs and an exoskeleton and a ventral nerve cord) and a vertebrate, which is based on a skull, an internal support structure and a dorsal nerve cord, aside from very superficial things...

You might find this link helpful in understanding convergent evolution.

There are many books on the subject. The Runes of Evolution by Simon Conway Morris is a little deep, but may also be interesting if you would like to go further on the subject.

You wrote, "So I seriously doubt we'll see anything that is exactly like a vertebrate animal..."

We may see nothing at all, but given similar environments there are tools for survival that evolution finds better suited than others. An internal skeleton has advantages over an exoskeleton after the organism reaches a certain size. Clearly no skeletal system at all has disadvantages on land. For instance, an octopus would not fare well out of water. Even snakes are vertebrates.

I almost hate to quote the 'survival of the fittest' phrase as it is often misunderstood, but mechanisms that provide statistically better chances of species reproduction tend to be selected. Those that don't are culled out of the crucible of life.

I can't think of a robust substitute for vertebrate skeletons and nature seems to have come up blank, too, after 4 billion years of experimentation.
 

Helix

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You might find this link helpful in understanding convergent evolution.

There are many books on the subject. The Runes of Evolution by Simon Conway Morris is a little deep, but may also be interesting if you would like to go further on the subject.

You wrote, "So I seriously doubt we'll see anything that is exactly like a vertebrate animal..."

We may see nothing at all, but given similar environments there are tools for survival that evolution finds better suited than others. An internal skeleton has advantages over an exoskeleton after the organism reaches a certain size. Clearly no skeletal system at all has disadvantages on land. For instance, an octopus would not fare well out of water. Even snakes are vertebrates.

I almost hate to quote the 'survival of the fittest' phrase as it is often misunderstood, but mechanisms that provide statistically better chances of species reproduction tend to be selected. Those that don't are culled out of the crucible of life.

I can't think of a robust substitute for vertebrate skeletons and nature seems to have come up blank, too, after 4 billion years of experimentation.

I'm going to go out on a limb no limb at all here and suggest that Roxxsmom understands convergent evolution very well.

And animals with exoskeletons are extremely successful on land. The most diverse group of organisms is one with a chitinous exoskeleton. Organisms with hydrostatic systems are also remarkably successful in terrestrial environments. They're also more interesting than that dull old axial + appendicular skeleton bunch.
 

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We may see nothing at all, but given similar environments there are tools for survival that evolution finds better suited than others. An internal skeleton has advantages over an exoskeleton after the organism reaches a certain size. Clearly no skeletal system at all has disadvantages on land.

Oooooooo. Careful what you say, or 35,000 species of pissed-off terrestrial mollusc are gunna come and wreck your vegetable patch. I've seen it.
 

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I'm going to go out on a limb no limb at all here and suggest that Roxxsmom understands convergent evolution very well...

I wasn't sure as the counterargument appeared to be phrased somewhat awkwardly to me. I had no intent to belittle anyone and I am sorry if it came across that way.

The thing about biology, and exobiology in particular, is that we understand so little about it. However, if I was going to hang my hat on anything I would lean toward convergent evolution as a guide for what to expect. That's just a humble opinion of mine on a fairly subjective topic.

The problem with an exoskeleton is as the mass of the organism increases the skeleton is not well suited for the environment due to its own mass. It does not scale up well, just as vertebrates do not scale down to the size of insects well.

Each fills its niche.