Uh, Oh. Big Mistake in Serial Killer Book

triceretops · Dec 1, 2015

Well, I'm flying along with a serial killer novel and make no mention of the serial killer out there stabbing high school girls through the heart (at night) and pulling a tooth for a keepsake--"The Tooth Fair." This begins in Chapter one. The detective assigned to the case is very new. He and his fiance are shot up pretty bad in a failed carjacking, leaving him with lung-shot wounds and her a blowout fracture in the side of the face, requiring facial surgery and a cornea transplant. I only divulge the information of the killings through newspaper headlines in the first chapter and on for the rest of the book. The detective takes a steady slide into insanity as a result of being taken off the case for recoup and the guilt he has for not protecting his gal.

She has received a cornea from some strange donor that allows her to see angels and reapers following people around. As a result, she can use prophesy to determine time and death of people, which she will later use to solve this baffling serial killer case. This is the fun part of the main plot

My questions: I think I'm leaving out the serial killer and his characterization completely. He does need his own POV and chapters doesn't he? And he should be introduced fairly early on, correct?

Is killing teenage girls too much? I can make them college students just as easily.

Half this book is done and I just realized this tremendous blunder.

Any advice would be very helpful,

Tri

triceretops · Dec 1, 2015

I forgot to add:

The gal is the MC, she is too busy trying to get her husband back into mental/physical shape and convince him that she might have a very unusual way to solve this crime, (but this comes much later in the book.) The detective's character is more sub-plot than anything. It's all about her and her new-found gift that can solve this case--she has only to get her husband off the strong meds and alcohol and keep him out of the institution. In the meantime, she and her girlfriend are learning how to work this gift. So they try to interfere and screw up destiny a couple of times--but they learn. The female MC does end up having a reaper follow her (as bait and on purpose), and she uses that with the police department and other agencies to trap the killer. (She's 21 years-old but looks like a teenager)

Fruitbat · Dec 1, 2015

I don't think high school vs. college-aged victims is a problem. Didn't Stephen King write one where the victims were little kids?

Also, I think you could do it without the killer having his own scenes if you wanted to. I recall a movie a long time ago where in the end, the killer was just a regular, everyday nobody. That, in itself, made a strong statement I guess, since I still remember it even though I don't remember the name of the movie or any of the actors.

Or, after it's done you could go back and put in one or more scenes with the killer in them, if it seems something is lacking.

frimble3 · Dec 1, 2015

If the killer only wanted to kill one person, then killed another to cover up the first killing, then realized he had killed the wrong person and had to start over again, with a plan originally meant for one-time use, yeah, his POV might be interesting.

If it's the usual serial killer 'he hates the victim group because they remind him of something horrible from his past, so he keeps killing them in some weirdly specific way', then, no, I have no desire to get anywhere near his head.

triceretops · Dec 2, 2015

Yeah, he's a general slaughterer of young beautiful girls with long hair because those are the types he received rejections from during his high school term. I can bring out his story at the end--the reveal. I think I'm at victim 11 at the moment and must slow down. But...it's making everybody nuts about this case.

cbenoi1 · Dec 2, 2015

triceretops said:
She has received a cornea from some strange donor that allows her to see angels and reapers following people around.

So the novel starts like your usual serial killer novel. Then pooooof, Fantasy-land, along with some magical powers to solve the crimes that gives the Heroine an unfair advantage. That's enough reason to give that book a flying lesson.

I don't mind mixing Detective and Fantasy genres. It just means the usual story beats must do double-duty. If, for example, your first story beat is the Villain commits a crime and covers it up, that beat should also start exposing the Fantasy world as well. An alternate approach would set the Villain as part of the Fantasy world (ex: the Villain is a reaper). Another alternative is to balance her advantage in the Fantasy world with a greater weakness in the Real world, i.e. she can see angels and reapers but there are brutal side-effects.

triceretops said:
I think I'm leaving out the serial killer and his characterization completely. He does need his own POV and chapters doesn't he? And he should be introduced fairly early on, correct?

See above about the first plot beat. Detective stories are about finding the truth. Catching a criminal is just a consequence of that. In your case, you have two mysteries. One is the killings, the other is the magical powers. Is your Heroine also investigating the source of her powers or is she going "Oh. Cool." and goes on her merry business?

-cb

onesecondglance · Dec 2, 2015

I don't think you need the killer's POV unless they have an interesting story of their own to tell - i.e. their chapters don't just provide the killings that move the plot along.

You do need to establish the killer as a presence, though, so that when you get to the bit about solving that case the reader doesn't go "how come I've never heard about this serial killer?!"

I also agree with cbenoi that you need to make sure the introduction of fantasy elements is trailed early on. Think of how your readers might describe the book to others - your description suggests it should be "it's about this detective who gets magic powers from a cornea transplant", but if you get "it's about a detective who gets shot and goes mad" instead you may be putting your emphasis in the wrong place.

I would also suggest linking the nature of the crime to the powers your heroine gets - so that not only is she the only person who does solve the crime, she's the only person who can. This could help ground the powers into the plot so they are integral rather than superficial.

Coconut · Dec 2, 2015

I think this is a classic problem in crime fiction. If the focus is on the protagonist and there's no organic reason for him and the antagonist to cross paths, then just focusing on the protagonists side of the story doesn't really give the antagonist any face time. I think you could use a combination of techniques to give the killer face time. The newspaper clippings is good, you could also have a POV from the victim's family's perspective that involves the antagonist. You could do something straight from the antagonist's POV.

You don't need to do that many antagonist POVs as people have said. As long as you give them some presence at regular intervals it should be fine. Maybe there's a way to combine the antagonist POV with increasing tension in the story to make it more organic.

MarkEsq · Dec 2, 2015

I also don't think you're required to have chapters from the killer's POV. However. I've heard grumblings from readers (and maybe even in this forum) that serial killers are a little overdone. I say that not to deter you from having one, but to emphasize the importance of giving him a solid persona and realistic motivations for killing so many people. You mention the rejections, I'm sure there's more than that (hopefully!) because just being rejected isn't likely to send someone into a killing frenzy. Bottom line for me: make sure your killer is more than a cardboard cut-out of a serial killer. There's no one way to do that, no requirement of chapters in his POV, but I do think your antagonost needs some attention from you. Good luck!

ironmikezero · Dec 2, 2015

Hey Tri', a very creative idea--I like it!

A genre mash-up like this needs a sense of balance; be certain your fantasy aspect and routine grind of the ongoing investigation do so. Periodic and inadvertent interference between your MC and the assigned PD investigator(s) will provide opportunities to ratchet up the tension and cast suspicions (red herrings) as you deem warranted. Your MC's newly manifested ability should come with an ongoing price/fatal flaw/etc. that contributes to her accumulating dire circumstances leading to the climax (only to be overcome at the last possible moment--assuming it'll be HEA, of course).

Pay more attention to your victimology--the cops certainly will. Compare/contrast similarities and obvious differences, lifestyles, habits and behaviors; look for something that provides insight, however slight, into the mind/motivation of your killer. How and why does he select his victims? I don't think the age of your victims, provided they're not prepubescent, will matter that much to the reader.

I strongly agree with Mark; your killer doesn't need his own POV. However, don't let him become merely two-dimensional; maybe introduce a forensic pathologist/profiler to give your killer's character more depth. You can do a lot with this concept in simple dialogue.

Whatever you decide, best of luck!

triceretops · Dec 2, 2015

See above about the first plot beat. Detective stories are about finding the truth. Catching a criminal is just a consequence of that. In your case, you have two mysteries. One is the killings, the other is the magical powers. Is your Heroine also investigating the source of her powers or is she going "Oh. Cool." and goes on her merry business?

She's full on investigating why the docs and specialist don't think there's something wrong with her. What she is seeing these things, how she is seeing them, why she is seeing them, when she is seeing them and where. She's also investigated the source of the donor to find out more about why this pre-puberty girl (donor) had such a gift/curse. So, I'd say the mystery of this transplant and what it provides overshadows everything else. The murders seem almost consequential.

triceretops · Dec 2, 2015

I would also suggest linking the nature of the crime to the powers your heroine gets - so that not only is she the only person who does solve the crime, she's the only person who can. This could help ground the powers into the plot so they are integral rather than superficial.

Yep, she's the only one who can solve this one.

triceretops · Dec 2, 2015

Coconut said:
I think this is a classic problem in crime fiction. If the focus is on the protagonist and there's no organic reason for him and the antagonist to cross paths, then just focusing on the protagonists side of the story doesn't really give the antagonist any face time. I think you could use a combination of techniques to give the killer face time. The newspaper clippings is good, you could also have a POV from the victim's family's perspective that involves the antagonist. You could do something straight from the antagonist's POV.

You don't need to do that many antagonist POVs as people have said. As long as you give them some presence at regular intervals it should be fine. Maybe there's a way to combine the antagonist POV with increasing tension in the story to make it more organic.

We'll begin to see and find out about the killer as he's set up for a trap, using the paranormal abilities of the female MC toward the end of the book. I think that might be sufficient face time for him, or he can get a very early on small chapter. In other words, we have to make it worth her while, if that's what you're thinking.

triceretops · Dec 2, 2015

You mention the rejections, I'm sure there's more than that (hopefully!) because just being rejected isn't likely to send someone into a killing frenzy. Bottom line for me: make sure your killer is more than a cardboard cut-out of a serial killer. There's no one way to do that, no requirement of chapters in his POV, but I do think your antagonost needs some attention from you. Good luck!

This is sound advice--making the motives of the killer more complex and mysterious. He needs other hangups and reasons.

ETA: Oh, believe me, two of my agents have told me that serial killers are so fully baked and used that they're burnt. It has to be something special and out there. Not necessarily a genre mystery to disguise it.

Glyax · Dec 2, 2015

hmm, what if you did just a brief part, maybe italicized, indicating the murderer's viewpoint as he commits one of the crimes, and then the rest of the story is the chase against him, the discovery of where the MC's magical powers come from/what is enabling her to utilize this power, so on so forth.

Darkness. The word echoed again, coming from everywhere and nowhere at once. The voice was unmistakable, yet unknown, changing, yet familiar, all at once. For countless days, or perhaps, for only a mere instance, the word attacked from all sides, bearing down, pushing itself upon him. He could feel the weight; feel the pressure, it hung in the air. His eyes saw nothing in the dark, how long had it been, how long had darkness surrounded him, perverted him, and permeated him? It was his enemy, or was it his friend? An ally, a protector: or a menace, a threat? He knew naught, knew naught but the darkness, the only truth he knew was that it was there. Or was it? He closed his eyes, and there it was…darkness. No images flashed through his mind. No, images did flash, but they were blocked, covered by the darkness. Was that a good thing? He didn’t know. What was the darkness hiding, what was it keeping from him? He sought the light, sought to fight the darkness, to see again. Why? The word echoed, a new word, one he hadn’t heard yet. It pushed at his consciousness, making ripples in the darkness. Is that possible? For darkness to ripple? To move? He wasn’t sure, and yet he was sure it did, could feel the darkness around him vibrate with the question. Why did he want the darkness to move, to leave? It was his solace, his friend. It was keeping him safe, wasn’t it? He needed to know, needed to see what it was hiding him from. He opened his eyes again, the darkness waned. The light hurt his eyes, yet it washed away the echoing words, pushed back the darkness that surrounded him, protected him. His vision waivered, then cleared, he saw colors, yes, colors other than the void. Crimson stood out; in stark contrast to the paleness it covered. He saw it then, the flashes, the shouts, the screams. The knife, he looked down, and saw it, silver and crimson, splendid, yet horrid. How easily it had cut through the flesh, how easily it had taken pale and turned it red, stained the whole world scarlet. Flesh opens up, pale or dark matters naught, it all reveals crimson when silver cuts into it. Interesting, he thought, but then he remembered. He remembered the man, or wait, it was him. He remembered the knife, his knife, in his hand. He looked at his hand; it was painted crimson as well, but not his crimson. No, this was the crimson of the woman before him, her body broken and torn, pale flesh in crimson ribbons. Did he do this? Yes. Did he know her? No. Something inside him stirred, wanted to scream against the horror, the evil he committed. He smiled, remembered everything now, and remembered who his one friend was, as he again embraced it. The artwork before him faded away, the image subsided, and Jack was swallowed again by the darkness.

mirandashell · Dec 2, 2015

I would concentrate on the MC and her powers, rather than the killer.

I agree that serial killers of young women are overdone. Could you make him a serial killer of young men?

triceretops · Dec 2, 2015

ironmikezero said:
Hey Tri', a very creative idea--I like it!

A genre mash-up like this needs a sense of balance; be certain your fantasy aspect and routine grind of the ongoing investigation do so. Periodic and inadvertent interference between your MC and the assigned PD investigator(s) will provide opportunities to ratchet up the tension and cast suspicions (red herrings) as you deem warranted. Your MC's newly manifested ability should come with an ongoing price/fatal flaw/etc. that contributes to her accumulating dire circumstances leading to the climax (only to be overcome at the last possible moment--assuming it'll be HEA, of course).

Pay more attention to your victimology--the cops certainly will. Compare/contrast similarities and obvious differences, lifestyles, habits and behaviors; look for something that provides insight, however slight, into the mind/motivation of your killer. How and why does he select his victims? I don't think the age of your victims, provided they're not prepubescent, will matter that much to the reader.

I strongly agree with Mark; your killer doesn't need his own POV. However, don't let him become merely two-dimensional; maybe introduce a forensic pathologist/profiler to give your killer's character more depth. You can do a lot with this concept in simple dialogue.

Whatever you decide, best of luck!

The husband detective will actually set up the trap scenario (once he gets finished with his meltdown), guiding his wife on how to capture this shit hole but remain absolutely safe in doing so at the end of the book. He's a new detective grade profiler of sorts. I thought about the killer meeting the female MC near the end, befriending her somehow--getting confidence--then stalking her for the kill because she's already a blueprint for the girl's he's gone after. She will discover her peril by having an angel/escort beginning to follow her and she feels this is a warning sign that she's about to get lethally tagged. Husband/detective will also discover this fact a bit later than she does.

I'm an ex-federal cop. Doing a straight up serial killer mystery would have never been too much of a problem for me since I know the lingo and operational tactics. But...when I combine a paranormal element to the story, the balance becomes something terribly crucial and a bit daunting for me. So far, it's coming out way better than expected. Main plot--lots of subplots--every plot poses its own problem "Now what's happening here and how does it tie-in? Will this subplot get solved?" I'm trying to leave the reader perpetually confused and curious without losing him/her in the complexity of it.

Mystery plus Supernatural = difficulty for me. Got to read some books on it.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THE HELP, AND KEEPING A TRAIN FROM A MAJOR DERAILMENT.

Tri

triceretops · Dec 2, 2015

mirandashell said:
I would concentrate on the MC and her powers, rather than the killer.

I agree that serial killers of young women are overdone. Could you make him a serial killer of young men?

Yeah, that's my direction. I actually thought about making the serial killer a woman--you know, one who has vengeful tendencies like "Carie" but longer and more festering.

triceretops · Dec 2, 2015

The POV of the killer in italics is something I've seen used before and it is effective and fills in a lot of gaps without giving us his entire life story.

cbenoi1 · Dec 2, 2015

> But...when I combine a paranormal element to the story, the balance
> becomes something terribly crucial and a bit daunting for me.

Sometimes it's worth looking at equivalents to see the whole picture. The way you describe it, your story looks more like Spiderman in terms of story structure. Distilled to its basic essence: the Heroine acquires new powers, she fiddles with them, then decides to use them for the greater good - with mixed results - until she meets her match. It's during that latter part of the story that she learns the truth about her powers. It's a climactic revelation for her as it is for the audience - that with great powers comes great responsibilities. Did the Goblin had that much screen time in Spiderman? Not that much. Did it matter? No, to the extend that it was enough to explain his nature and how he was to attack the Hero's weaknesses (lack of formal combat training, lack of brute strength, and a secret love for Mary-Jane).

> Mystery plus Supernatural = difficulty for me. Got to read some books on it.

All in all I think your gut instincts are okay. Just remember to devise the Villain's actions in terms of your Heroine's weaknesses and you'll do fine.

-cb

Jwriter · Dec 3, 2015

The books I've read that reveal the killer slowly, showing their evil actions without too much explanation, are SO much creepier. That puts the reader in the same boat as your MC -- trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Then you can put your reveal wherever it is best suited in your story. What a great plot!

triceretops · Dec 3, 2015

cbenoi!--the Spiderman analogy is a very close and accurate plot/theme of what I intended. It's perfect and dead-on the way you explained it. I hadn't thought of it in those terms. The story really is about these powers and explores the God/Satan theme in a way that's more important than the rest of it. I won't say the serial killing is just incidental, and I realized that I could have really any other trope that wasn't so familiar. I do have to keep in on the cop's wife--she finally proves to him what she can do and he teams with her to solve the problem. He only assists her. I guess I'll have to wing-it as far as how much story line/time the serial killings (and the killer) get.

o.Nixie.o · Apr 3, 2016

Unless your antagonist is someone that personally knows your MC and they have some crazy connection, then I think the killer's POV would just be redundant or possibly too much. The killings are already rage-inducing enough. Killing "kids" or teens is bad and will, naturally, make the town upset and want to go nuts. The part about the teeth an be introduced when a detective speaks to someone and they drop that little bomb of info. Maybe like "this wasn't reported in the papers to deter copycats" etc... something like that.

No first draft is shiny. You can fix this. Its going to be great!

MaggieMc · Apr 5, 2016

Hi Tri,
I read somewhere recently that in a mystery we typically don't know who the killer is or what their motive is until the climax but killer is generally introduced in first third of the book (without making reader aware that character is the killer) and there must be reasonable hints throughout so a reader could look back over the book and it would all make sense.

A thriller is generally plotted differently - the reader gets to see the killer early on (thinking of all those novels that have an intro/prologue that shows a murder from the killer's POV without identifying him/her), and gets more glimpses of the killer throughout the book so it becomes a protagonist v. killer showdown ...who's going to win etc. Very often there is a murder later in the book that is close to the protag - this is a way of bringing the killer closer without directly giving his POV. The killer may start to see the protag as the big challenge or threat and start to react to the actions of the protag or take action aimed at the protag that the protag has to respond to.

I had a lot of trouble dealing with the killer once I got passed the middle of the mystery I am currently writing. I realised I hadn't paid enough attention to him or his motivations and so the book was beginning to sag. I ended up writing a whole back story for him (won't be in the book) and with that in the back of my mind it started to become more obvious where I needed to seed him here and there in the book. I am writing a mystery though ...whereas it sounds like yours might be more of a thriller?

Sounds great by the way!

Maggie.

leifwright · Apr 5, 2016

triceretops said:
Well, I'm flying along with a serial killer novel and make no mention of the serial killer out there stabbing high school girls through the heart (at night) and pulling a tooth for a keepsake--"The Tooth Fair." This begins in Chapter one. The detective assigned to the case is very new. He and his fiance are shot up pretty bad in a failed carjacking, leaving him with lung-shot wounds and her a blowout fracture in the side of the face, requiring facial surgery and a cornea transplant. I only divulge the information of the killings through newspaper headlines in the first chapter and on for the rest of the book. The detective takes a steady slide into insanity as a result of being taken off the case for recoup and the guilt he has for not protecting his gal.

She has received a cornea from some strange donor that allows her to see angels and reapers following people around. As a result, she can use prophesy to determine time and death of people, which she will later use to solve this baffling serial killer case. This is the fun part of the main plot

My questions: I think I'm leaving out the serial killer and his characterization completely. He does need his own POV and chapters doesn't he? And he should be introduced fairly early on, correct?

Is killing teenage girls too much? I can make them college students just as easily.

Half this book is done and I just realized this tremendous blunder.

Any advice would be very helpful,

Tri

There is absolutely no need to give the serial killer ANY scenes.

You can do it if you want (I personally find evil people far more fun to write than good people), but you don't NEED to.

Killing teenage girls? Not a problem. There's no need to politically correct your vision. Write the story you have in your mind, and quit second-guessing yourself. I like the story, though I'm not often a fan of supernatural stuff. So that says something.

Uh, Oh. Big Mistake in Serial Killer Book

triceretops

triceretops

Fruitbat

.

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

triceretops

cbenoi1

onesecondglance

pretending to be awake

Coconut

MarkEsq

Clever title pending.

ironmikezero

practical experience, FTW

triceretops

triceretops

triceretops

triceretops

Glyax

Self-proclaimed Wordsmith

mirandashell

triceretops

triceretops

triceretops

cbenoi1

Jwriter

Going places

triceretops

o.Nixie.o

MaggieMc

leifwright

Mired in the miry mire.