Any brain experts out there?

Wanderluster · Nov 15, 2015

Hello smart people!

I'm writing a short story in which a character has a (fictional) disease that rots away part of her brain. The disease starts by 'stealing' her words (or at least her speech); she starts to forget specific words until all her language is gone. Then, her understanding of others' words goes.

I realize it probably doesn't work like that, but I'm okay taking some liberties since this is science fiction - and not the hard kind. But I would like to get as many details correct as possible, outside the liberties I purposefully take for the sake of the story.

My question is: what functions might go next, assuming that the 'rot' attacked adjacent areas of the brain?

I've looked at maps of the brain and it's clearly highly complex (who knew?!

). I understand that a single area of the brain is responsible for multiple functions, and that a single complex function (like language) is controlled by multiple areas of the brain. I can't tell which is the right choice to approximate the symptoms my character exhibits.

From a story perspective, it's important that my character not lose aspects of her personality - memories, behaviors, emotions, etc. - or lose autonomic functions like breathing, heart beating, etc.. So the prefrontal cortex and limbic system are off-limits, and probably other areas. I'm hoping there's an area of the brain adjacent to a language area that would result in the loss of other non-critical functions, such as sensory information (ideally auditory, olfactory, or taste), equilibrium, complex movements (like playing the piano), etc.

For instance, would Broca's area work, followed by the premotor cortex? Or maybe Wernicke's area followed by the sensory areas in the parietal lobe? A few options (and the respective functions she would lose) would be very helpful.

Thank you, smart people!

King Neptune · Nov 15, 2015

There are a number of diseases that destroy the brain, destroying various functions, but which brain function would be lost when is a crapshoot. You can have the character lose whatever you want. Diseases that you migh look at for information along those lines are tertiary Syphilis, Lyme Disease, and Alzheimer's. Syphilis and Lyme Disease are caused by related bacteria and when untreated the bacteria attack the brain. Tertiary Syphilis usually makes its victims screaming mad insane; one example is Al Capone, who died from it in prison. I am acquainted with someone with Lyme Disease that went untreated for at least two years, and it reached a point of being incurable. She has lost some vision and motor coordination, but it has taken 15 years. If you want something faster, then use Syphilis.

If you just want the order of loss, then do whatever you want.

Katharine Tree · Nov 15, 2015

Broca's and Wernicke's areas are the hot spots, yes. Notice that they are not adjacent. Damage in Wernicke's area affects your ability to understand heard speech (written words less so). Damage in Broca's area affects your ability to speak. To some degree, in an average person, damage on the right side will affect your ability to parse and produce grammar while damage on the left side will affect your ability to deal with prosody and intonation. People with damage to their left-hemisphere speech areas can still understand and speak, but they lose emotional nuance in the understanding and speaking. People with damage on the right hemisphere's Wernicke area, on the other hand, can often "fake it" to some degree because they understand the emotional import of what they're hearing and can give appropriate mirroring responses. They seem like really good listeners

Motor and sensory stuff mostly happens in the cleft between the brain's hemispheres, which is fairly far off from both these areas. Ditto the hippocampus, which has a lot to do with memory.

Wernicke's area is not far from the occipital lobe, which processes vision. All sorts of strange things happen when the occipital lobe deteriorates. Some people can recognize objects, but can't tell you where the objects are in relation to each other, for example. Oliver Sacks' book The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat is an excellent piece of source material for you here.

Broca's area, on the other hand, is awfully close to the frontal lobe, which you don't want to touch. So I'll leave that alone, and say that square between Broca and Wernicke is the temporal lobe, which has things to do with processing time. I can't off the top of my head think of the weirdness temporal lobe damage causes, but Oliver Sacks wouldn't lead you astray.

One thing about brain damage: because the part of the brain that deals with doing X is no longer functioning, the person often doesn't realize that she has a deficit until someone points it out. Even when doctors tell the patient she has a deficit, she often doesn't really understand what the deficit is, or only understands it in an academic sense. Your character isn't going to wake up one morning and discover, all on her own, that her ability to produce coherent sentences is gone. She's going to go through a scary process of discovering it via interaction with others.

WeaselFire · Nov 15, 2015

It's not fictional. It's called chemotherapy.

Jeff

Wanderluster · Nov 15, 2015

King Neptune said:
There are a number of diseases that destroy the brain, destroying various functions, but which brain function would be lost when is a crapshoot. You can have the character lose whatever you want. Diseases that you migh look at for information along those lines are tertiary Syphilis, Lyme Disease, and Alzheimer's. Syphilis and Lyme Disease are caused by related bacteria and when untreated the bacteria attack the brain. Tertiary Syphilis usually makes its victims screaming mad insane; one example is Al Capone, who died from it in prison. I am acquainted with someone with Lyme Disease that went untreated for at least two years, and it reached a point of being incurable. She has lost some vision and motor coordination, but it has taken 15 years. If you want something faster, then use Syphilis.

If you just want the order of loss, then do whatever you want.

Thank you, Neptune! It's good to know I have some flexibility here - maybe even carte blanche. It does make sense that the brain is so complex, the effects of disease are unpredictable. Thanks for the insight!

Katharine Tree said:
Broca's and Wernicke's areas are the hot spots, yes. Notice that they are not adjacent. Damage in Wernicke's area affects your ability to understand heard speech (written words less so). Damage in Broca's area affects your ability to speak. To some degree, in an average person, damage on the right side will affect your ability to parse and produce grammar while damage on the left side will affect your ability to deal with prosody and intonation. People with damage to their left-hemisphere speech areas can still understand and speak, but they lose emotional nuance in the understanding and speaking. People with damage on the right hemisphere's Wernicke area, on the other hand, can often "fake it" to some degree because they understand the emotional import of what they're hearing and can give appropriate mirroring responses. They seem like really good listeners

Motor and sensory stuff mostly happens in the cleft between the brain's hemispheres, which is fairly far off from both these areas. Ditto the hippocampus, which has a lot to do with memory.

Wernicke's area is not far from the occipital lobe, which processes vision. All sorts of strange things happen when the occipital lobe deteriorates. Some people can recognize objects, but can't tell you where the objects are in relation to each other, for example. Oliver Sacks' book The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat is an excellent piece of source material for you here.

Broca's area, on the other hand, is awfully close to the frontal lobe, which you don't want to touch. So I'll leave that alone, and say that square between Broca and Wernicke is the temporal lobe, which has things to do with processing time. I can't off the top of my head think of the weirdness temporal lobe damage causes, but Oliver Sacks wouldn't lead you astray.

One thing about brain damage: because the part of the brain that deals with doing X is no longer functioning, the person often doesn't realize that she has a deficit until someone points it out. Even when doctors tell the patient she has a deficit, she often doesn't really understand what the deficit is, or only understands it in an academic sense. Your character isn't going to wake up one morning and discover, all on her own, that her ability to produce coherent sentences is gone. She's going to go through a scary process of discovering it via interaction with others.

Katharine, you rock!! Thank you so much for validating that Broca's and Wernicke's areas are the right spots, and offering so much more. I agree that Broca's area being adjacent to the frontal lobe is problematic, since I don't even want the potential for her personality to be affected next.

I like the idea of the disease starting in Wernicke's area and migrating to her temporal lobe. The emotional processing of words is interesting - I may slip in that she becomes a good listener.

From the description on this site, it sounds like the temporal lobe has a great deal to do with auditory sensation and processing, so it's a great choice for the story:

Kolb & Wishaw (1990) have identified eight principle symptoms of temporal lobe damage: 1) disturbance of auditory sensation and perception, 2) disturbance of selective attention of auditory and visual input, 3) disorders of visual perception, 4) impaired organization and categorization of verbal material, 5) disturbance of language comprehension, 6) impaired long-term memory, 7) altered personality and affective behavior, 8) altered sexual behavior.

I may not even name the specific parts in the story; I just want to make sure my facts are solid, and you've helped me do that!

The character in question isn't the MC, so I don't have to worry about her understanding or lack thereof of what is happening to her. A doctor shows her and the MC which parts of her brain will be affected, and they deal with the effects as they happen together.

Thanks so much for your help and knowledge, Katharine!

WeaselFire said:
It's not fictional. It's called chemotherapy.

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff. As you and Neptune pointed out, there are sadly a number of diseases that have similar effects, including cancer (and chemotherapy sounds like no picnic, either). The disease in my story is purely fictional, but you could certainly draw parallels to real ones.

Thank you all again - you've helped make my story stronger!

Katharine Tree · Nov 16, 2015

Wanderluster said:
From the description on this site, it sounds like the temporal lobe has a great deal to do with auditory sensation and processing, so it's a great choice for the story:

You're welcome, Wanderluster, and yep. All that part of the cortex that's directly beneath your ears--Wernicke's area and parts of the temporal lobe--have to do with hearing in general, and hearing language in particular. I really encourage you to read some Oliver Sacks. The ways things can go wrong are fascinating.

Good luck!

Wanderluster · Nov 18, 2015

Katharine Tree said:
You're welcome, Wanderluster, and yep. All that part of the cortex that's directly beneath your ears--Wernicke's area and parts of the temporal lobe--have to do with hearing in general, and hearing language in particular. I really encourage you to read some Oliver Sacks. The ways things can go wrong are fascinating.

Good luck!

I just read the first half of Dr. P's story in the Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, to the point where he tries to put his wife's head on his own. Fascinating! Thanks for the recommendation!

I decided not to refer to Wernicke's area by name (a bit too specific for the story), but referenced it as just north of the temporal lobe, with the potential for the disease to spread to the temporal or parietal lobes. I posted the story's here in SYW if you'd like to see what your wisdom contributed to!

Thanks again, Katharine!

Los Pollos Hermanos · Nov 21, 2015

I can't help with the question - sorry! - but my copy of TMWMHWFAH arrived this morning. Cheers for the recommendation - looks fascinating!

nomadictendencies · Dec 1, 2015

Katharine Tree said:
Broca's and Wernicke's areas are the hot spots, yes. Notice that they are not adjacent. Damage in Wernicke's area affects your ability to understand heard speech (written words less so). Damage in Broca's area affects your ability to speak. To some degree, in an average person, damage on the right side will affect your ability to parse and produce grammar while damage on the left side will affect your ability to deal with prosody and intonation. People with damage to their left-hemisphere speech areas can still understand and speak, but they lose emotional nuance in the understanding and speaking. People with damage on the right hemisphere's Wernicke area, on the other hand, can often "fake it" to some degree because they understand the emotional import of what they're hearing and can give appropriate mirroring responses. They seem like really good listeners

Motor and sensory stuff mostly happens in the cleft between the brain's hemispheres, which is fairly far off from both these areas. Ditto the hippocampus, which has a lot to do with memory.

Wernicke's area is not far from the occipital lobe, which processes vision. All sorts of strange things happen when the occipital lobe deteriorates. Some people can recognize objects, but can't tell you where the objects are in relation to each other, for example. Oliver Sacks' book The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat is an excellent piece of source material for you here.

Broca's area, on the other hand, is awfully close to the frontal lobe, which you don't want to touch. So I'll leave that alone, and say that square between Broca and Wernicke is the temporal lobe, which has things to do with processing time. I can't off the top of my head think of the weirdness temporal lobe damage causes, but Oliver Sacks wouldn't lead you astray.

One thing about brain damage: because the part of the brain that deals with doing X is no longer functioning, the person often doesn't realize that she has a deficit until someone points it out. Even when doctors tell the patient she has a deficit, she often doesn't really understand what the deficit is, or only understands it in an academic sense. Your character isn't going to wake up one morning and discover, all on her own, that her ability to produce coherent sentences is gone. She's going to go through a scary process of discovering it via interaction with others.

This!! Great response and also ditto the neuroplasticity and word finding difficulties - she'll start of with having trouble 'finding the right word' and will constantly have words that she'll describe as being 'at the tip of her tongue but just can't say'. They'll start to interrupt with verbal fluency which is probably when her, and others, will start to notice.

Dienekes · Dec 6, 2015

I am a retired medical doctor. Nothing to add other than if you want a little more carte blanche ability while still being believable, consider make your character left-handed. In general, left-handed people show much more variation and less predictability in area brain activity; language functions in particular tend to be spread more diffusely throughout the brain and between the two hemispheres in leftys.

Any brain experts out there?

Wanderluster

Hijacked by barnyard animals.

King Neptune

Katharine Tree

Þæt wæs god cyning

WeaselFire

Benefactor Member

Wanderluster

Hijacked by barnyard animals.

Katharine Tree

Þæt wæs god cyning

Wanderluster

Hijacked by barnyard animals.

Los Pollos Hermanos

Craving the next chocolate hit...

nomadictendencies

Dienekes