historical/fantasy

satyesu

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Yes, something is driving me nuts again. Or keeping me nuts. I still have hope in my head that something I could get published could put some good into the Universe. My current obsession is about whether to write a quasi-'50s fantasy or a historic '50s-esque fantasy. I'm wondering if the second could be more valuable because it's educational 'n' stuff. I don't know. Help.
 

Brightdreamer

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Beware of entering into an entertainment-based project with the term "educational" on your mind. I do not read fantasy, SF, or any other fiction with the primary intent of learning anything. I read to be entertained; if I learn something, that's a side effect. Few things will turn a reader off, whether they're 5 or 105, like an author attempting to educate them via fiction. There's a whole section of the library devoted to educating the reader - it's called Nonfiction. I picked up a Fiction book for a reason, dang it, and that reason was not because I was too lazy to parse the Dewey Decimal System to find a Nonfiction book!

Sorry. /rant

It's up to you whether to base your fantasy on existing 1950's or on alt-history 1950's. If you're feeling overwhelmed with the prospect of creating an internally consistent alternate world, then start with existing history and tweak only as needed. Basing that decision on perceived educational value is a mistake, not just for the reason mentioned above, but because, by writing a fantasy novel, you're already deviating from known history. Think that way, and you'll either feel guilty for deceiving your readers or straightjacket yourself into a textbook.

Write your story. Worry about whether I could pass the Twentieth Century History exam after reading it later.

JMHO...
 
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Latina Bunny

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Er, it's all up to you, really. Whatever floats your boat, or whatever makes the more interesting story or whatever.

I don't read with the goal to be "educated"; I read to be entertained by a good story.
 

Victor Douglas

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Hmm. There are people around who remember the '50's. Are you one of them? If not (and even if you are) people have very strong feelings about that time period. If you go historic, make sure that you are very accurate.
 

Latina Bunny

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Hmm. There are people around who remember the '50's. Are you one of them? If not (and even if you are) people have very strong feelings about that time period. If you go historic, make sure that you are very accurate.

If it's alternative fantasy world, it doesn't have to be exactly like our real world historic period. It doesn't have to be totally "accurate". (See some steampunk stuff.)

ETA: Oh, you're talking about historic genre. My bad for misunderstanding you, Victor.
 
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jjdebenedictis

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Hmm. There are people around who remember the '50's. Are you one of them? If not (and even if you are) people have very strong feelings about that time period. If you go historic, make sure that you are very accurate.
If I'm recalling correctly, Satyesu has planned a very cool-sounding 1950s+magic story, so the accuracy won't be necessary. It can be as rose-tinted-glasses and nostalgia-blinded as the author wants it to be. :)
 

Victor Douglas

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If it's alternative fantasy world, it doesn't have to be exactly like our real world historic period. It doesn't have to be totally "accurate". (See some steampunk stuff.)

ETA: Oh, you're talking about historic genre. My bad for misunderstanding you, Victor.

If I'm recalling correctly, Satyesu has planned a very cool-sounding 1950s+magic story, so the accuracy won't be necessary. It can be as rose-tinted-glasses and nostalgia-blinded as the author wants it to be. :)

Certainly, if you make it clear that the story's setting is in no way meant to be taken literally, you can get away with a lot more. Go all "Teen Beach Movie" on it!
 

Filigree

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Go find a TV movie from 1991 called 'Cast A Deadly Spell'. It has a sequel that kinda sucked, but the first one was sheer derivative fun. Late 40s/early 50s setting, magic came online after WWII, and all the advances and troubles a new technology brings. It's great stuff.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101550/

It has David Warner and the Necronomicon. Zombie housebuilding crews. A hard-bitten hero who won't use magic because it's dishonest.
 
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satyesu

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Thanks, all. Can+will you recommend some historical fantasy besides Leviathan?
 

Brightdreamer

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Thanks, all. Can+will you recommend some historical fantasy besides Leviathan?

Well, for WWII alt-history with fantasy, I've heard decent things about Ian Tregillis's Milkweed trilogy, though I haven't read it yet myself.

The Temeraire series (by Naomi Novik) has sapient dragons, but no actual magic to speak of. It's a great re-imagining of history and global politics, though.

Kenneth Oppel's Airborn books are alt-history, roughly early-1900's, with "hydrium"-powered airships ruling the skies; not really fantasy per se, as there's no magic, but neither is the Leviathan trilogy.
 

King Neptune

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Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy series might help. The year was around 1960, and the laws of magic had been codified around 1900. There were some electrical devices, but they were too expensive to be used commonly; the teleson was one such, but magical methods of long distance communications were preferred.
 
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Kjbartolotta

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Don't hear anyone mentioning Maile Meloy's the Apothecary. Was ok, well-written but didn't knock my socks off, but it's exactly what you're describing. The Bartimaeus Trilogy, which DID blow my mind, it set in modern day, but is set in a world with magic and has a bit of a 50's feel to it.
 

Travis Kerr

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i have to agree with the above comments; the purpose of a fiction is to be entertained. I have, however, seen many fictions that follow a piece of history, from ones that are absolutely correct to ones that border on the absurd. While I certainly don't speak for everyone, I've found that, for myself, I prefer historical fictions to be accurate with whatever history that they are portraying. This is not to say that I have not read books that have the feel of a certain time period but are not at all historical. My only suggestion is this; if it is meant to be a true representation of history, keep it as accurate as possible. If it is not meant to be historical but only gaining the feel of the time, keep historical information out of it. I've only seen a few rare occasions where a book follows history one moment and not the next and still work (with the notable exception of those that are specifically meant to be an alternate, parallel universe, and say so).
 

buz

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I still have hope in my head that something I could get published could put some good into the Universe. My current obsession is about whether to write a quasi-'50s fantasy or a historic '50s-esque fantasy. I'm wondering if the second could be more valuable because it's educational 'n' stuff. I don't know. Help.

I am hung up on the "good" and "valuable" things.

Something with no educational value at all can still be quite good and valuable. Sometimes escapism is legitimately worthwhile for people who need it. And sometimes reading can help with a range of things that are separate from educational value--verbal ability, cognition, focus, stillness, imagination, inspiration. Stress reduction. Putting your brain somewhere else for a while because it's too stuck where it is.

All you need for that is a good story.

So I'm wondering what exactly you consider to be good and valuable. Something with a message isn't necessarily good; something without a message is not by definition valueless or vapid. My inclination is to say, in terms of goodness, your genre doesn't matter, as long as it isn't a pamphlet on on how to make various murder devices out of household items. ;)
 

Brightdreamer

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Don't hear anyone mentioning Maile Meloy's the Apothecary. Was ok, well-written but didn't knock my socks off, but it's exactly what you're describing. The Bartimaeus Trilogy, which DID blow my mind, it set in modern day, but is set in a world with magic and has a bit of a 50's feel to it.

IIRC, the Bartimaeus books were a little closer to modern times than the 1950's... but I may be misremembering. (I could've sworn they used some more modern conveniences...)
 

Kjbartolotta

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Yeah, it was definitely modern times (they mention computers at one point). Society is a little more buttoned down and traditional though, so I think you could something out of it. I really, really love the books though, so there might be a bit of confirmation bias at work.
 

Maxx

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I am hung up on the "good" and "valuable" things.

Something with no educational value at all can still be quite good and valuable.

There are two catches or twists that I have found in writing fantasy that comes up against "real history" somehow:

1) if you write about a period based on its internal sources it sounds "too modern" because most "typically modern" things have been around in some
form much longer than anyone ever seems to realize.
2) the overall tension (including what stems from 1) above) between fantasy and "historical reality" (which again is not at all what most readers think it is) can be very tricky -- but useful if you can control it somehow.