Bayonet Stabbings - Then and Now!

There are many types and styles of bayonet but given the circumstances most likely someone tripped, dropped their weapon and produced a flesh wound on the kid ahead of him. OTOH almost anything is possible.

thefantasticmrfox said:

According to the book, the kid was trying to go back to get his rabbit and the soldier, not caring for his refusal to flee, stabbed him in the leg.

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A deliberate stab is more likely to be serious but again without knowing the details of the injury (angle, depth, location) or the type of bayonet, all you really know is that there was some sort of stab injury inflicted by a child abuser.

It would depend on the type of bayonet and location of the wound, but a stab in the calf would heal nicely without anything except a scar to show it happened, as long as no major tendons or nerves were damaged.

King Neptune said:

It would depend on the type of bayonet and location of the wound, but a stab in the calf would heal nicely without anything except a scar to show it happened, as long as no major tendons or nerves were damaged.

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Not if you took out the popliteal artery. That would have been catastrophic for the medicine of the day. AFAIK veterans of WW I did not get to keep their weapons so the demonstrators conceivably may have had muskets. Some probably had era specific weapons. There's such a variety of bayonets from that time frame that it could have been a 2 foot sword bayonet all the way down to something resembling an ice pick.

thefantasticmrfox said:

Here's a picture from the Bonus Army disaster:

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I'm sorry if I'm unclear. What I'm asking is this: if a kid were to be stabbed in the leg with a bayonet, could the kid suffer an injury that would result in a permanent injury/limp into even adulthood?

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Yes it is conceivable especially if it's the back of the knee. There's a lot of very important things there that are susceptible to penetrating trauma

GeorgeK said:

Not if you took out the popliteal artery. That would have been catastrophic for the medicine of the day. AFAIK veterans of WW I did not get to keep their weapons so the demonstrators conceivably may have had muskets. Some probably had era specific weapons. There's such a variety of bayonets from that time frame that it could have been a 2 foot sword bayonet all the way down to something resembling an ice pick.

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The OP indicated that one of the soldiers chasing the demonstrators away used the bayonet, so it may have been a triangular blade, and it certainly was not a sword type. Length is a question, but the U.S. Army mostly used bayonets of about 15 to 18 inches, but judgine from the photo you posted they were relatively short and narrow.

The calf is less dangerous for a stab than a thigh, but there is always a chance of hitting an artery.

Assuming the rifle was the M1903 Springfield, the bayonet would have been the M1905 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_series_bayonet#M1905

I could see an Achilles injury at just the wrong angle, and that would cause major walking problems, I'd think.

thefantasticmrfox said:

I'm sorry if I'm unclear. What I'm asking is this: if a kid were to be stabbed in the leg with a bayonet, could the kid suffer an injury that would result in a permanent injury/limp into even adulthood?

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Sure.

Jeff

Anything muscular will heal, in all but the most useless of humans. Some people are so mentally/spiritually weak they'll feel a flesh wound forever. But in most cases, if nothing is severed, the vic should be walking straight sooner or later. Its when something gets fully severed, like a tendon or ligament, and is not properly re-attached or fixed, that you have people walking funny. Or perhaps even severing an artery that results in a loss of blood bad enough to damage the leg permanently. Even a half-severed tendon will eventually heal, given the means to. I've torn all kinds of stuff and i'm fine. I've never fully detached or torn a tendon/ligament though.

Given that AWs only rule is "Respect Your Fellow Writer", which includes those who have a physical disability or chronic pain, would you like to reconsider your post, Adversary?

Adversary said:

Anything muscular will heal, in all but the most useless of humans. Some people are so mentally/spiritually weak they'll feel a flesh wound forever. But in most cases, if nothing is severed, the vic should be walking straight sooner or later. Its when something gets fully severed, like a tendon or ligament, and is not properly re-attached or fixed, that you have people walking funny. Or perhaps even severing an artery that results in a loss of blood bad enough to damage the leg permanently. Even a half-severed tendon will eventually heal, given the means to. I've torn all kinds of stuff and i'm fine. I've never fully detached or torn a tendon/ligament though.

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There's healing and then there's healing. Bruising and minor cuts and scrapes general heal. Everything else scars. A scar is not actual healing. It's a permanent patch on the cellular level. A severed tendon will not heal on it's own. An extremely lucky individual with an actual severed tendon might manage to get that muscle to scar to an adjacent structure and maybe preserve some function in that muscle but generally what will happen is that muscle will contract permanently and then atrophy due to unopposed actin and myosin action. Severed ligaments do not regrow. One might manage to get things to scar into place but that joint will never have the stability of the previously uninjured joint. Partially severed muscles may or may not with proper physical therapy be salvaged into compensating to regain a semblance of symmetrical strength and endurance. Devascularized muscle is dead and will not grow back. Again, depending upon the degree and location of the damage, and the appropriateness of physical therapy sometimes other muscles can be coaxed into something approximating original function.

Interesting thread. I came here to find out what was said about bayonet wounds. As a bonus, I found out that I am mentally and spiritually weak.

GeorgeK said:

There's healing and then there's healing. Bruising and minor cuts and scrapes general heal. Everything else scars. A scar is not actual healing. It's a permanent patch on the cellular level. A severed tendon will not heal on it's own. An extremely lucky individual with an actual severed tendon might manage to get that muscle to scar to an adjacent structure and maybe preserve some function in that muscle but generally what will happen is that muscle will contract permanently and then atrophy due to unopposed actin and myosin action. Severed ligaments do not regrow. One might manage to get things to scar into place but that joint will never have the stability of the previously uninjured joint. Partially severed muscles may or may not with proper physical therapy be salvaged into compensating to regain a semblance of symmetrical strength and endurance. Devascularized muscle is dead and will not grow back. Again, depending upon the degree and location of the damage, and the appropriateness of physical therapy sometimes other muscles can be coaxed into something approximating original function.

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That was pretty much what i said?

As for reconsidering my post, what the hell'd i say THIS time? Christ. Perhaps it could have been worded better, allow me to try. Some people will feel a wound that does no permanent lasting damage forever. By 'feel' i mean, continue to limp or remain hindered in movement... thats pretty extreme. Say a stab wound into flesh that severs or permanently damages nothing. Before anyone with a recurring limp gathers outside my house, i'll add that this is extremely rare, but it does happen. The mind can be a powerful tool for AND against the body.

Adversary said:

Anything muscular will heal, in all but the most useless of humans. Some people are so mentally/spiritually weak they'll feel a flesh wound forever...

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If you don't find this statement disrespectful in any way you may want to reconsider your participation here.

It really would depend on blind luck.

I don't see the soldier aiming for the back of the ankle--more likely it would be the back of the upper leg or even in the buttocks. In all likelihood, only muscle would be damaged, and assuming the kid got medical attention, he would probably return to full health.

Sure, the bayonet could have ended up cutting nerves or tendons, but without knowing anything more, it's simply conjecture.

If you're asking whether such a wound in your work of fiction could produce a longlife limp ... sure, why not?

In all likelihood, the edges of the bayonet wouldn't have been particularly sharp. It would have been more a thrusting weapon. Remember, the bayonet's whole purpose was to turn an empty rifle into a makeshift spear (there are early training manuals detailing just how this is done). Depending on how deep the thrust was, it would have hurt like bejeebers, and undoubtedly left a scar, but would not necessarily have sliced and diced.

Depending on the age of the child and the area of the disrupted tissue, a limp would be entirely a matter of chance.



To stick my oar in the water as a relative outsider who isn't familiar with any of the parties involved here and has no dog in the hunt, there ARE useless people who'll ride a minor injury forever. (Fiddy Cent) There ARE people who'll beat a major injury to death with its own scar tissue (Teddy Roosevelt). Saying that is not the same as saying that ALL people who are disabled are useless weaklings, nor that ALL people who beat major injury are super heroes (although TR came pretty close).

While part of being civil is indeed not being thoughtless, part of it is also not reaching out to seek umbrage where none is offered. Reductio ad absurdum has no place in civil discourse.