Alabama closing driver license offices in majority black counties

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kaitie

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Every single county in which blacks make up more than 75 percent of registered voters will see their driver license office closed. Every one.

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/09/alabama_sends_message_we_are_t.html

Holy shit, guys. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm surprised. Alabama announced that due to budget cuts, they were going to be closing driver license offices in several counties. Okay, nothing too shady there. Until you realize that the ones that are being closed are the ones with the highest percentages of African Americans. And that Alabama now has voter ID laws requiring a license to vote. And that they raised the cost of even getting a license.

I don't know how it could possibly be viewed in any remotely positive light. It very much sounds like this is a very intentional act of voter suppression, which sickens me. As the author of the article says, even if it wasn't intended as such, the results are going to be the same.
 

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Anyone else notice when minorities vote, Republicans run into trouble?

Cause the Republicans sure as fuck noticed.
 

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I would just like to note that the article you are referencing is an opinion piece. John Archibald is drawing conclusions that may or may not be true. The part that is true is that the Governor is in his second term and is being an ass about raising taxes and cutting the budget in ways that will piss off the public instead of in ways that would really make sense. He's threatening to close state parks too. Just because it's in Alabama doesn't mean it's racial. it's 2015.
 

c.e.lawson

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Do people actually believe Republicans are doing this in order to keep black people away from the polls?

The DMVs closed apparently account for less than 5% of all driver license transactions.

And renewals can be done on line.

And voters can obtain a FREE voter ID at lots of different locations that aren't DMV - http://www.alabamavoterid.com/permanentLocations.aspx

Yes, it will be less convenient for some people. It already is inconvenient for me in California. I waited over 3 hours for my daughter, and we even had an appointment! And I had to drive 45 minutes to a further away DMV after I lost my own license, in order to replace it sooner than the 2 month wait time for appointments at the DMVs closest to my house.
 

kaitie

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It is an opinion piece, but the other article that I read on the topic was from a source that I didn't know, so I didn't want to link that one because I didn't know if it was a legit source. That being said, I think he makes very good points. If we want to disagree with his conclusions, that's fine, but I think he points out very valid things.

As for whether or not I believe that this is intended to suppress votes, I would argue that yes, that is precisely what it is intended to do. It might be that I feel rather strongly about this as the voter ID laws in my own state actually screwed me out of voting in an election. They added new requirements to prove you were eligible, and wouldn't even take an out of state license as proof. I had to go twice, and ended up waiting six hour (yes, I went very early in the morning to beat the rush) to get my license. I almost left several times.

I couldn't imagine if, in addition to all the hoops I was being forced to go through, I had also been required to travel to another county. In my case, I couldn't do it online (I tried), but I think being able to do it online is not always feasible. Generally you pay via credit card online, which not everyone has. In my state, not everyone is allowed to renew online, and the one time it said that I was eligible to renew, it wouldn't allow it because of a glitch in the software, so I still had to go and do it in person. Also, getting a license for the first time generally requires an in-person visit.

I think the people who would be most hurt by this are poor people who don't have transportation, may not drive, may not be able to get off work to travel to another county to get a license, etc. I imagine it would also affect young people trying to get a license for the first time.

Honestly, I think that if we're going to have voter ID laws, particularly incredibly strict ones, the only way to make it fair is to increase availability of those IDs, and decrease costs. Personally, I feel that the ID laws in general are intended to screw people over. By then making it more difficult to obtain IDs by any group of people is wrong. It's even worse when the people who will be affected are mostly the people who don't vote for you.
 

kaitie

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Also, I can't recall who, but seeing as how there have been republicans who blatantly stated that voter ID laws would help them win elections, it's very hard for me to trust that this doesn't have nefarious intentions.
 

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Also, I can't recall who, but seeing as how there have been republicans who blatantly stated that voter ID laws would help them win elections, it's very hard for me to trust that this doesn't have nefarious intentions.
Last year, Pennsylvania Republican House Leader Mike Turzai (R-PA) admitted that voter identification efforts were designed to suppress Democratic votes, telling a Republican Steering Committee meeting that Voter ID “is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...admits-voter-id-helped-suppress-obama-voters/
 

nighttimer

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I would just like to note that the article you are referencing is an opinion piece. John Archibald is drawing conclusions that may or may not be true. The part that is true is that the Governor is in his second term and is being an ass about raising taxes and cutting the budget in ways that will piss off the public instead of in ways that would really make sense. He's threatening to close state parks too. Just because it's in Alabama doesn't mean it's racial. it's 2015.

It does mean it's racial when it has a disproportionate effect of Alabama's Black residents.

Archibald's opinion piece isn't only opinion. He sprinkled in a few facts too.

Every single county in which blacks make up more than 75 percent of registered voters will see their driver license office closed. Every one.

Look at the 15 counties that voted for President Barack Obama in the last presidential election. The state just decided to close driver license offices in 53 percent of them.


Look at the five counties that voted most solidly Democratic? Macon, Greene, Sumter, Lowndes and Bullock counties all had their driver license offices closed.


Look at the 10 that voted most solidly for Obama? Of those, eight – again all but Dallas and the state capital of Montgomery – had their offices closed.

Try and make the case, sassandgroove, these cuts making it more difficult to get the state-required I.D. to vote will make it easier, not harder for Black citizens to get it. From here it looks like the Alabama legislature not only closed the door on Black voters, the even removed the doorknob.

You're right that it's 2015, but in Alabama when it comes to voter disenfranchisement based upon race, it's still 1915
 

c.e.lawson

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It is an opinion piece, but the other article that I read on the topic was from a source that I didn't know, so I didn't want to link that one because I didn't know if it was a legit source. That being said, I think he makes very good points. If we want to disagree with his conclusions, that's fine, but I think he points out very valid things.

As for whether or not I believe that this is intended to suppress votes, I would argue that yes, that is precisely what it is intended to do. It might be that I feel rather strongly about this as the voter ID laws in my own state actually screwed me out of voting in an election. They added new requirements to prove you were eligible, and wouldn't even take an out of state license as proof. I had to go twice, and ended up waiting six hour (yes, I went very early in the morning to beat the rush) to get my license. I almost left several times.

I couldn't imagine if, in addition to all the hoops I was being forced to go through, I had also been required to travel to another county. In my case, I couldn't do it online (I tried), but I think being able to do it online is not always feasible. Generally you pay via credit card online, which not everyone has. In my state, not everyone is allowed to renew online, and the one time it said that I was eligible to renew, it wouldn't allow it because of a glitch in the software, so I still had to go and do it in person. Also, getting a license for the first time generally requires an in-person visit.

I think the people who would be most hurt by this are poor people who don't have transportation, may not drive, may not be able to get off work to travel to another county to get a license, etc. I imagine it would also affect young people trying to get a license for the first time.

Honestly, I think that if we're going to have voter ID laws, particularly incredibly strict ones, the only way to make it fair is to increase availability of those IDs, and decrease costs. Personally, I feel that the ID laws in general are intended to screw people over. By then making it more difficult to obtain IDs by any group of people is wrong. It's even worse when the people who will be affected are mostly the people who don't vote for you.
That's why I pointed out that Alabama residents can get a FREE voter ID at multiple locations in the state.

Voter suppression is a different issue than untoward inconvenience to obtain driver licenses. I agree this will be very inconvenient for some poor people to get their licenses. And maybe something will need to be changed to make it easier. But I do NOT agree that this has been done to suppress voters nor necessarily will suppress voters because there are alternatives to obtain voter ID.
 

nighttimer

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That's why I pointed out that Alabama residents can get a FREE voter ID at multiple locations in the state.

Voter suppression is a different issue than untoward inconvenience to obtain driver licenses. I agree this will be very inconvenient for some poor people to get their licenses. And maybe something will need to be changed to make it easier. But I do NOT agree that this has been done to suppress voters nor necessarily will suppress voters because there are alternatives to obtain voter ID.

Pop quiz, c.e. lawson. How many confirmed cases of voter impersonation were there between general, primary, special, and municipal elections from 2000 through 2014?

300,000?
30,000?
3,000?


The answer is 31. 31 cases of voter impersonation, the sort of fraud most of these ID laws are designed to catch, out of over a billion votes cast over those 14 years.

These pernicious voter ID laws have come out of Republican statehouses and signed into law by Republican governors with honorable sounding names like "Voter Protection Act" because branding is critically important to convince the public this new, but unnecessary restriction on their rights is actually good for them.

A Harvard professor and expert on voter suppression differs.


The new ID laws have almost invariably been sponsored—and promoted—by Republicans, who claim that they are needed to prevent fraud. (In five states, Democratic governors vetoed ID laws passed by Republican legislatures.) Often working from a template provided by the conservative American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), Republican state legislators have insisted that the threat of election fraud is compelling and widespread; in December 2011, the Republican National Lawyers Association (RNLA) buttressed that claim by publishing a list of reported election crimes during the last 12 years. Republicans have also maintained that a photo ID requirement is not particularly burdensome in an era when such documents are routinely needed to board an airplane or enter an office building. Public opinion polls indicate that these arguments sound reasonable to the American people, a majority of whom support the concept of photo ID requirements. The Supreme Court has taken a similar view, although it left open the possibility of reconsidering that verdict if new evidence were to emerge.


Critics of these laws (myself included) have doubted both their necessity and their ability to keep elections honest. The only type of fraud that a strict photo ID rule would actually prevent is voter impersonation fraud (I go to the polls pretending to be you), and, in fact, voter impersonation fraud is exceedingly rare. In Indiana, where the Republican-dominated legislature passed one of the first new ID laws in 2005 (on a straight party-line vote), there had been no known instances of voter impersonation in the state’s history. In Texas, a strict ID law was enacted last year, although the 2008 and 2010 elections gave rise to only five formal complaints about voter impersonation (out of 13 million votes cast). “There are more UFO and Bigfoot sightings than documented cases of voter impersonation,” quipped one Texas Democrat. Close inspection of the RNLA’s inventory of election fraud, moreover, has found it to be flawed and misleading; most election experts believe that the greatest threat to election integrity comes from absentee ballots—a threat that would not be addressed by the current laws.


As importantly, the burdens placed on prospective voters by these ID requirements are not trivial. Men and women who already possess driver’s licenses or passports, of course, will be unaffected.
(So too will those in Texas who have permits to carry concealed weapons—since those permits meet the ID requirement.) But citizens who lack such documents will now be obliged to assemble various other pieces of paper (birth certificates, naturalization forms, proof of residence, etc.) and make their way (presumably without a car) to a government office that can issue an official photo ID. Who are these men and women? Studies indicate that they are disproportionately young or elderly, poor, black, and Hispanic; demographically, they are more likely than not to vote Democratic. (In states covered by the Voting Rights Act, such as Texas and South Carolina, the photo ID laws are being challenged by the Department of Justice on the grounds that they disproportionately affect minorities.) The number of people potentially affected is considerable: the Texas secretary of state, for example, estimates that at least 600,000 already registered voters do not possess the documents to cast ballots in November. New York University’s respected Brennan Center for Justice has estimated that a total of more than five million people may lack the requisite identification documents in states that have passed new ID laws.

If doesn't surprise me in the least a supporter of the Republican Party sees nothing wrong with targeted legislation which limits and suppresses the ability of groups of voters who traditionally aren't supporters of Republicans. I'd only be surprised if they didn't close their eyes to the obvious: they support a party and policies which makes it harder, not easier, for Americans to vote.
 

c.e.lawson

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NT, I'm not talking about voter ID requirements here. I haven't read up on that enough to comment. (I don't think we have that where I live. ) What I'm commenting on is the concern that these DMVs are being purposely closed to suppress voters. My opinion is that they're being closed due to budget cuts, and there are ways to get a free voter ID at multiple locations.
 

nighttimer

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NT, I'm not talking about voter ID requirements here. I haven't read up on that enough to comment. (I don't think we have that where I live. ) What I'm commenting on is the concern that these DMVs are being purposely closed to suppress voters. My opinion is that they're being closed due to budget cuts, and there are ways to get a free voter ID at multiple locations.

Your opinion on matters you "haven't read up on" is invalidated by the facts on the ground for real people.

Willie Mims, 93, showed up to vote at his polling place in Escambia County Tuesday morning for Alabama’s primary elections. Mims, who is African-American, no longer drives, doesn’t have a license, and has no other form of ID. As a result, he was turned away without voting. Mims wasn’t even offered the chance to cast a provisional ballot, as the law requires in that situation.

Jenny McCharen of Empower Alabama, a progressive group that gave Mims a ride to the polls, recounted the story for msnbc. McCharen said Mims’s voter file showed he has voted in every election since 2000, as far back as the records go.


How many Alabamans lack ID isn’t known—in part because the state made no effort to find out before the ID law. But nationwide, most studies put the figure at around 11%, and as high as 25% for African-Americans.

As high as 25 percent of African-Americans lack the proper ID to vote? Gee, I wonder if that's a number which could make a crucial difference in an election?

I'm quite certain the Republican majority in the Alabama legislature certainly hopes so.

By the way, in the 2014 general election voter turnout in Alabama was 41 percent, the lowest it had been in 28 years.

Here is where someone should put a cigar in their mouth and say, "I love it when a plan comes together." :yessmiley
 

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NT, I'm not talking about voter ID requirements here. I haven't read up on that enough to comment. (I don't think we have that where I live. ) What I'm commenting on is the concern that these DMVs are being purposely closed to suppress voters. My opinion is that they're being closed due to budget cuts, and there are ways to get a free voter ID at multiple locations.
Well, that's possible. The current voter ID laws are already doing a pretty good job in discouraging minorities from voting. And a quick and easy way for a state to save money is to cut services in minority neighborhoods. Hey, they don't vote Republican anyway so there will be no blowback. The fact that to some extent it may discourage minorities from voting is just a fortunate perk.

I think the thing to remember is that voter ID laws are not designed to make it impossible for any particular group to vote. They are designed to make more difficult for minority and poor members of the community. Republicans don't have to keep everyone from voting – all that's needed to win elections is to make it difficult enough so that a certain number of people will decide it's just too much hassle, or that they really can't afford the time and expense.

And here's an interesting bit. If you look at what's required to get a free photo ID, apparently it's a birth certificate, of course, and in addition, a piece of identification with your full legal name and your birthdate on it. The most common way to supply that, is of course a drivers license.

If you don't have one of those, what do you use? I just looked through my wallet and can't find any piece of identification other than my drivers license that fills those requirements.

Apart from a drivers license, what identification do most people have that includes both your full legal name and your date of birth? I'm having trouble thinking of any.
 

c.e.lawson

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Examples of Photo ID documents that can be used to obtain a free Alabama Photo Voter ID card, but CANNOT be used at the polls

A student ID issued by a public or private high school (This takes care of those kids in school who can't get their DL because of the new closures)
A student or employee ID card issued by a private university or postgraduate technical or professional school located OUTSIDE the state of Alabama
An employee ID card NOT issued by a branch, department, agency, or entity of the US government, the State of Alabama, or any county, municipality, board, authority, or entity of the State of Alabama
Hospital/nursing home ID card
Wholesale club or other membership card

Examples of Non-Photo ID Documents that can be used to obtain a free Alabama Photo Voter ID card
All must contain full legal name and date of birth

Birth Certificate *
Hospital or nursing home record
Marriage Record *
State or Federal Census Record
Military Record
Medicare or Medicaid document
Social Security Administration Document
Certificate of Citizenship
Official school record or transcript

http://www.alabamavoterid.com/getFreePhotoVoterID.aspx

I think the above includes several things which will take care of the (probably few) people who will not be able to vote because they can't get to the DMV to get their licenses.

Note also:
* The Secretary of State’s office has entered an agreement with the Alabama Department of Public Health whereby a free birth or marriage certificate will be provided to the processing or issuing agent when a voter needs one of these documents in order to obtain a free Alabama photo voter ID card. This certificate is for voting purposes only, is provided electronically, and cannot be used for any other purpose. For more information, please call the Secretary of State’s office at 1-800-274-8683.
 
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Jcomp

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I think the thing to remember is that voter ID laws are not designed to make it impossible for any particular group to vote. They are designed to make more difficult for minority and poor members of the community.
...
And here's an interesting bit. If you look at what's required to get a free photo ID, apparently it's a birth certificate, of course, and in addition, a piece of identification with your full legal name and your birthdate on it. The most common way to supply that, is of course a drivers license.

If you don't have one of those, what do you use? I just looked through my wallet and can't find any piece of identification other than my drivers license that fills those requirements.

Apart from a drivers license, what identification do most people have that includes both your full legal name and your date of birth? I'm having trouble thinking of any.

Yuup. Basically, the existence of another avenue for obtaining voter identification doesn't mean that the motivation here isn't likely to be political and/or racial.

Instructions on making things tougher on people who would oppose you to discourage and/or demoralize them comes in the Dirty Politics and Casual Oppression Starter Kit.
 

JetFueledCar

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Yuup. Basically, the existence of another avenue for obtaining voter identification doesn't mean that the motivation here isn't likely to be political and/or racial.

Instructions on making things tougher on people who would oppose you to discourage and/or demoralize them comes in the Dirty Politics and Casual Oppression Starter Kit.

Included in this year's welcome packet to the Republican National Convention.
 

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c.e.lawson, if you want to convince people that there is no racial/voter-suppressing motivation here, then why don't you offer a substantiated alternative explanation? Like, for example, if it could be shown that in all of the counties affected, the DMVs cost proportionally more money while serving fewer people, then maybe you could make an argument that it was a purely economic decision (though it's hard to imagine that no one even thought about how it would look). But color me very skeptical.
 

c.e.lawson

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c.e.lawson, if you want to convince people that there is no racial/voter-suppressing motivation here, then why don't you offer a substantiated alternative explanation? Like, for example, if it could be shown that in all of the counties affected, the DMVs cost proportionally more money while serving fewer people, then maybe you could make an argument that it was a purely economic decision (though it's hard to imagine that no one even thought about how it would look). But color me very skeptical.

Here is the ALEA's reasoning:

http://www.alea.gov/Home/wfFlyerDetail.aspx?ID=2&PK=ea439937-97c5-4ab6-894a-e0e27c6e8d91

Alabama issues an average of 1.2 million driver licenses each year. The Driver License Division is severely understaffed and has 103 vacant positions as a result of past budget cuts and attrition. Analyzing transactions performed in each location throughout the state revealed the combined efforts of the 31 part-time satellite locations accounted for less than five percent of all Alabama Driver License transactions performed by ALEA. The busiest of these 31 satellite locations performed less than 2,000 transactions during 2014.

Secretary Collier continued, “Throughout the 2015 Legislative Sessions, we communicated our concerns to the Legislature, the news media, and the public by addressing the ongoing shortage of Driver License Division personnel created by past budgets and our ability to meet the needs of citizens should additional cuts be imposed. Additionally, we took a proactive approach to solve a decade old funding issue with the Driver License Division’s operations by increasing the cost of the driver license to recoup a portion of the cost it takes to actually produce the license. The Legislature then reduced ALEA’s General Fund appropriation by the projected recoupment revenue thereby negating the proactive steps taken by the agency. We appreciate the support of those Legislators that have helped our agency and strive to provide the most efficient use of the taxpayer’s dollars. With the new budget cuts passed by the Alabama Legislature for Fiscal Year 2016, and with our limited personnel, travel has been eliminated to these part-time satellite locations. Driver License Examiners will be utilized to staff District Driver License Offices full-time and will no longer provide staffing to these 31 county owned, satellite locations.”

“We will continue to work on ways to optimize customer convenience with our services,” said Secretary Collier. “Probate Judges and License or Revenue Commissioners will continue to provide the same renewal services they have traditionally handled in their facilities. Additionally, statewide equipment upgrades announced in July, will allow Probate Judges and License or Revenue Commissioners to renew STAR IDs and conduct other services that were previously only performed at Driver License Offices.”
 

jlmott

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Many on this thread have provided several links regarding voter suppression of minorities, specifically by Republican politicians. You reaction is to post a bureaucratic press release. Do you think this pattern of voter suppression really doesn't exist? Or are you so focused on the apparent ambivalence of this one action in Alabama that you have put the blinders on and refuse to acknowledge the actions already taken to advance this agenda?

Oh, and another link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...s/why-voter-id-laws-arent-really-about-fraud/

Anyway, I've spend far too much time in the politics section here. Need to get back to writing and working on my stuff. Just noticed my sentence above has a lot of "a" words, which makes it sound unintentionally comical, and I'm not sure if that's alliteration or assonance or something else I've forgotten. No, I'm not really looking for an answer.
 

c.e.lawson

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Many on this thread have provided several links regarding voter suppression of minorities, specifically by Republican politicians. You reaction is to post a bureaucratic press release. Do you think this pattern of voter suppression really doesn't exist? Or are you so focused on the apparent ambivalence of this one action in Alabama that you have put the blinders on and refuse to acknowledge the actions already taken to advance this agenda?

Oh, and another link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...s/why-voter-id-laws-arent-really-about-fraud/

Anyway, I've spend far too much time in the politics section here. Need to get back to writing and working on my stuff. Just noticed my sentence above has a lot of "a" words, which makes it sound unintentionally comical, and I'm not sure if that's alliteration or assonance or something else I've forgotten. No, I'm not really looking for an answer.

The OP was specifically about the closing of DMVs in Alabama in order to suppress black voters. Then it turned into blaming the Republicans for closing the DMVs to suppress black voters. As I said two or three times already, I believe the DMV closures are due to budget cuts. That's why I posted the above link which is the press release regarding the OP. You can give me articles about voter suppression due to requiring IDs all you want, and maybe we even have a thread around here about that, but the OP was about the DMV closures. Republicans are blamed for enough stuff around here -- I just prefer it to be for things they've actually done and for the actual reasons they've done it.
 
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