Words for courtyard garden that works in both US and UK

Bolero

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
1,080
Reaction score
106
Location
UK
I'm aware that what I in the UK would call a garden, in the US would be called a yard.

To me in the UK a yard is paved or cobbled. Might just have a few pots at the edge, or a bush, but we are not talking green and flourishing.

No idea what might be used other than in US or UK.

So yesterday I was writing a scene where in passing I referred to a courtyard garden. Someone looks through railings into an area between two buildings which I am picturing as wall to wall cobbles, with various raised beds (round beds stone walls) which have herbs, flowers and maybe a small tree. So a pleasantly scented leafy area, shady sitting spot in summer, sun trap in winter, not muddy underfoot. It really is in passing in this scene (though might be used more in a few chapters), so for now I am trying to pick as few words as possible. To me "courtyard garden" invokes what I've just described. (Courtyard garden plus mention of cobbles, herbs, maybe a seat - can just about be done in a sentence or maybe two.)

So does "courtyard garden" work for you?

Hoping for some "international" answers here please. ;)
 

Deb Kinnard

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
2,382
Reaction score
311
Location
Casa Chaos
Website
www.debkinnard.com
US here. Does "walled garden" get your concept across? From what you've described, I'm visualizing the private garden into which the lovers climbed in "Notting Hill." Is that the general idea?
 

alleycat

Still around
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
72,885
Reaction score
12,235
Location
Tennessee
Courtyard garden more or less evokes what you described to me (US).
 

Maryn

Baaa!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
55,651
Reaction score
25,797
Location
Chair
I cannot agree with Alleycat, although usually I do. To me in the US, a courtyard is fully enclosed, often by a single building. Although it may have a gap in a wall to allow passage from outside, it's not unusual for a courtyard to be accessible only through the building. While an urban environment can create courtyards with multiple tightly spaced buildings, it seems to me like a garden between buildings but open on both short ends isn't a courtyard garden.

That said, if the short ends were walled, even if the walls had arches or doors, then it would be a courtyard. I guess my issue is with the ends open to the sidewalk and street.

Maryn, quite opinionated
 

Bolero

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
1,080
Reaction score
106
Location
UK
US here. Does "walled garden" get your concept across? From what you've described, I'm visualizing the private garden into which the lovers climbed in "Notting Hill." Is that the general idea?
From watching the film a few years ago I remember them on a bench in a garden - but thought it was the sort of thing you get in the middle of a Victorian square of houses. Sort of a big thing with mature trees and grass.

I've now done a quick google on "courtyard garden".

This http://www.floralandhardy.co.uk/portfolio/garden-design-snodland/

Is the closest to what I am after (but built about three centuries ago, no pergola, stone walls not brick, glistening grey cobbles not the flagstone and no fountain feature...) :) And about twice the area......

Incidentally when I say "cobbles"

Does it mean this https://pixabay.com/en/cobblestones-road-paving-stones-393455/

to you?

We're talking an already established in the readers head vaguely 17th century fantasy world setting. Or do I need to have in a few extra words like "rough" and "polish by traffic" and "grey".

In many ways probably doesn't matter too much, but in setting the atmosphere with wheels rumbling over cobbles, want to be in the right ball park.
 

morngnstar

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,271
Reaction score
297
Courtyard or not, Americans would call it a garden. A yard is strictly grass. If there are flowers, or vegetables, it's a garden. A yard is sometimes bordered by gardens; it might be said that these are "in" or even "part of" the yard, but if there's not much grass at all, it definitely isn't a yard.
 

Bolero

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
1,080
Reaction score
106
Location
UK
Courtyard or not, Americans would call it a garden. A yard is strictly grass. If there are flowers, or vegetables, it's a garden. A yard is sometimes bordered by gardens; it might be said that these are "in" or even "part of" the yard, but if there's not much grass at all, it definitely isn't a yard.

OK I didn't realise yard was just grass. Garden being garden in that way is handy thank you.
I'd call an area of grass a lawn.... (well if it is nicely mowed). Whether area of grass, or central grass (lawn) plus shrubs, all are gardens to me. Wanted to communicate "enclosed" + "paving" + "plants" + "bounded in part by buildings".

Thanks Alleycat and Maryn (cross posted on my previous with you).

The layout is buildings on east and west, high iron railings to north and south running from the corners of the buildings. It is a central area inside a larger area of buildings, cobblestone yard and walls - vaguely monastic enclosure but not monastic...... So at certain times, the public can come in to the big enclosure through an arched gatehouse, are in a big cobbled area where people and handcarts can mill around and beyond this is the restricted area of the residents - the buildings and railings enclosing the garden. Then there is more stuff beyond that can be be seen through the railings. I want some stuff to be visible further through, but there to be secluded bits in the garden. It is more about controlled access than pure privacy.
 

ironmikezero

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
1,739
Reaction score
428
Location
Haunted Louisiana
I've heard real estate agents in the US refer to such places as atriums or grottos . . . of course, they typically have an agenda . . . ;)
 

MaryMumsy

the original blond bombshell
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
3,396
Reaction score
829
Location
Scottsdale, Arizona
"Yard" is not synonymous with grass. Here in the southwest there are many yards, both front and back, that have no grass. They have some sort of rock, and the occassional tree, shrub, or bush. To me yard just means the area around the house, the part of your property that you use.

To the OP, I would have no difficulty understanding what you meant by your description.

MM
 

Siri Kirpal

Swan in Process
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
8,943
Reaction score
3,151
Location
In God I dwell, especially in Eugene OR
Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

West coast US resident here. Garden implies a special outdoor space, for flowers or vegetables, and yes, it can be in a courtyard. Yard indicates a general outdoor area around a house (maybe other buildings). So front yard may have trees and flowers, probably will, but it's what's in front of the building.

Courtyard garden or walled garden gets the point across.

I might add, the Alcazar garden in Balboa Park in San Diego is a courtyard garden between two buildings with arcades on the other two sides. You might be able to google pictures of it. It's got two fountains, pathways between formal flower areas and a trellis/pergola.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

Maryn

Baaa!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
55,651
Reaction score
25,797
Location
Chair
Having seen the image of something like you have in mind, I'd opt for "walled garden."

Living where the original cobblestones occasionally emerge when the asphalt wears thin, no, that image is not what I think of when I think "cobblestone." To me, cobblestones are rounded rocks more like this or this. Each rock came from a nearby river and is not milled, cut, or shaped in any way. The stones are about the size of a big baking potato. I've walked on that kind of cobblestone many times, and it's really hard on your feet, and probably nearly that bad on a cart or even in a car.
 

Bolero

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
1,080
Reaction score
106
Location
UK
Thanks folks. I'm tweaking it slightly away from courtyard, as that is not quite right for the picture in my head. I too think courtyard with buildings on all side, now its been said.

Sorted thank you.

Cobbles - OK I'd think of Maryn's as large pebbles and would only expect to see them laid as an ornamental area in a garden. However, since all I wanted was hand laid lumpy stone road surface, that will make a lot of noise with carts crossing it and be a bit rough, cobbles of both sorts work. One is just a lot rougher than the other.

Also interesting to hear the US variants on gardens and yards.