Haaj Stampede near Mecca

There is a massive amount of construction in Mecca and it is infuriating millions of Muslims because of the expectation to make it to Hajj and all the treasures that are esteemed and cherished by millions of Muslims are being bulldozed for this construction. It is like they are building their version of St. Peter's Basilica with all the accoutrements that followed it.

Iranian press (for what it's worth) is predicting numbers of deaths worse than the 1990 disaster at around 1 500. The ayatollahs have openly condemned the Saud family's handling of Hajj, including laying the blame on Prince Salman's convoy for closing an exit.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/iran-slams-saudi-arabia-hajj-stampede-150924140959859.html

http://presstv.ir/Detail/2015/09/24/430513/Saudi-Arabia-stampede

http://presstv.ir/Detail/2015/09/24/430582/Saudi-stampede-hajj-prince-Salman

Well, looks like the Saudi king has already identified the culprits of the accident and they will be beheaded. All the while, Saudi authorities have been washing their hands of their culpability by accusing foreigners (which most of the victims are) and the lower classes. You know, the usual.

http://en.abna24.com/service/middle-east-west-asia/archive/2015/09/24/712190/story.html

o religion, you silly, silly vice.

Well, the important thing is that they get there. I don't think it matters necessarily if all the pieces make it there together.

Haggis said:

Well, the important thing is that they get there. I don't think it matters necessarily if all the pieces make it there together.

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?

Gosh. Who knew that blind panic and poor planning are more deadly than ISIS.

mccardey said:

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Not downplaying the horror of it, mccardey, just dark humor which I can't help. Especially if the Saudis are beheading non-responsible people for their own failures.

Be careful with the humor. One of my husband's coworkers went on Hajj this year. And we haven't heard from him...

NinjaFingers said:

Be careful with the humor. One of my husband's coworkers went on Hajj this year. And we haven't heard from him...

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No, actually I won't.

We've had this discussion over and over again and over in this forum. Some people hate dark humor. Makes them sick. I get it. For others, it's the way they deal with sick shit they hear about. That's how I cope.

If the forum mods and/or AW admins want to make dark humor verboten, that's their call. Perhaps they need to make that call. Or make it clear one way or the other. But in the meantime, I'll continue to use it. But don't you dare think I have no compassion for the people who have been harmed, or may have been harmed. That's not what dark humor is about at all.

NinjaFingers said:

One of my husband's coworkers went on Hajj this year. And we haven't heard from him...

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I'm sorry to hear that, Ninja. I hope he comes back safely - it's been an horrific event.

Haggis said:

But don't you dare think I have no compassion for the people who have been harmed, or may have been harmed.

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But it sure does read like a absence of compassion, reading those words on a screen. Especially when it's followed up by snappily disregarding a request from someone closer to the tragedy to be mindful of the audience.

I hope your husband's coworker is safe, Ninja.

Overcrowding disasters are not unique to religious events (google "Hillsborough 1989" or "Estadio Mateo Flores 1996"). Mecca does have particular challenges, such as the sheer numbers who come for the Hajj and the diverse nationalities (and so problems with communication) involved. However, the scale and frequency of overcrowding disasters indicates that something is seriously wrong with crowd control at Mecca. I wouldn't trust the Saudi royal family to organize a ping-pong match, but unfortunately they are in charge of the largest annual religious pilgrimage in the world.

Cramp said:

But it sure does read like a absence of compassion, reading those words on a screen. Especially when it's followed up by snappily disregarding a request from someone closer to the tragedy to be mindful of the audience.

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There's always someone personally involved and always someone ready to say "That's not funny."

ETA: To elaborate - back after the 2011 tsunami that hit Japan (and many other places), there were naturally Godzilla jokes rife on the Internet. And naturally, people screaming THAT'S NOT FUNNY HOW DARE YOU!

Would I make a Godzilla joke directly to someone who lost a family member in the tsunami? No, probably not. But it's not reasonable to insist that no one on the Internet make jokes after a tragedy because someone might be personally affected.

Amadan said:

Would I make a Godzilla joke directly to someone who lost a family member in the tsunami? No, probably not. But it's not reasonable to insist that no one on the Internet make jokes after a tragedy because someone might be personally affected.

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I wouldn't insist that no one on the internet makes jokes about tragedy. I wouldn't insist that someone doesn't make these jokes if they really are a means to cope with a world that often needs to be coped with. I would say that there are probably better places to make such jokes if one needs to - where you can control, or at least be aware of, who is in the audience and their experiences. And I would also say that the appropriate reaction when someone closer to the tragedy politely asks that people should be more careful of the jokes they make in a public forum isn't to say "I am well aware people can find this very upsetting but I do what I want."

Cramp said:

I would say that there are probably better places to make such jokes if one needs to - where you can control, or at least be aware of, who is in the audience and their experiences.

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I.e., nowhere on the Internet?

And I would also say that the appropriate reaction when someone closer to the tragedy politely asks that people should be more careful of the jokes they make in a public forum isn't to say "I am well aware people can find this very upsetting but I do what I want."

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We'll just have to disagree.

Amadan said:

We'll just have to disagree.

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Looks that way

Cramp said:

And I would also say that the appropriate reaction when someone closer to the tragedy politely asks that people should be more careful of the jokes they make in a public forum isn't to say "I am well aware people can find this very upsetting but I do what I want."

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There is no appropriate reaction. Well, other than pursuing harm to others. People digest pain differently. Black humour is one of those ways.

Amadan said:

Would I make a Godzilla joke directly to someone who lost a family member in the tsunami? No, probably not.

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Probably?

rugcat said:

Probably?

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Well, if it was a really funny joke...

I hope your husband's coworker returns safely, Ninja.

Sorry, but I personally was not in the mood for that particular humor while I was waiting to HEAR from somebody.

He called this morning and is fine.

So, NOW I won't be upset by jokes .

NinjaFingers said:

Sorry, but I personally was not in the mood for that particular humor while I was waiting to HEAR from somebody.

He called this morning and is fine.

So, NOW I won't be upset by jokes .

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I'm happy for your husband's coworker's friends and family. I grieve for those who lost loved ones. Having lost a family member in a tragedy, I actually do get it.

You do understand I was mocking the Saudi's for blaming the victims and not the victims themselves, right?

William Haskins said:

o religion, you silly, silly vice.

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Yeah, it's right up there with vices like music and sports.