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Stew21
08-06-2015, 08:03 PM
(I'll post hyperlinks in a minute.)

Read entries here (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?309705-AW-POETRY-CONTEST-SPACE-ENTRIES). (password: citrus)

Read rules and voting details here (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?308607-Announcing-the-2015-AW-POETRY-CONTEST-SPACE&p=9482271&viewfull=1#post9482271).

Contest discussion - you're in it. So discuss.

William Haskins
08-06-2015, 08:20 PM
i've long been critical of what i view as a pathetic level of cultural engagement of poetry in general and have made similar complaints about the often modest amount of participation in this forum. this is because a) i'm a jerk and b) poetry is one of the few things i care about.

but you will see none of that criticism in this thread. this is a high-water mark for AW's poetry forum and the mods, steppe and, most of all, the contributors should be very proud.

i am thrilled not only with the turnout, but also with the variety, quality and boldness of the entries. it is a delicious sampling of style, form and POV.

congratulations to you all.

Kylabelle
08-06-2015, 08:25 PM
It's an amazing group of poems.

Once we're all done with the voting and stuff, I'd love to see all these assembled into a book. I'll probably say that again several times.

Kylabelle
08-06-2015, 08:42 PM
I always forget that people in Australia have to sleep.

Stew21
08-06-2015, 08:45 PM
I didn't move over the discussion posts because they were posted before this thread was started and it would sort of bungle the info post at the top of this thread. if you want any of your own comments in this thread, feel free to quote yourselves in a new post. :)

ErezMA
08-06-2015, 11:37 PM
I was taken aback seeing this much quality - it was more than expected.

Sarita
08-07-2015, 01:31 AM
Gorgeous selection. I'm curious about voting approaches. I think I am going to reread in batches and go from there. It's hard to judge such quality against quality.

Sarita
08-07-2015, 01:33 AM
i'm going to read them all to my focus group of 2 cats and 2 dogs.

i trust their sensibilities. Crap. I've only got 2 cats. Simply not the n= I was looking for.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 01:38 AM
Crap. I've only got 2 cats. Simply not the n= I was looking for.

You have time to recruit a few dogs. Make sure they're literate dogs though.

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 01:49 AM
Damn it, I don't have any pets. Maybe I'll see how they play to my houseplants.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 01:50 AM
A perfect combination then. With the deciding vote on the appropriate side of the civilization index, to boot. Well done!

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 01:51 AM
Damn it, I don't have any pets. Maybe I'll see how they play to my houseplants.

If your plants start to wither, you'll know you found a winner. Thing is, plant response time is a bit slow so you'll have to start quickly.

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 01:54 AM
If your plants start to wither, you'll know you found a winner. Thing is, plant response time is a bit slow so you'll have to start quickly.

Mine are all pretty much dead. I was hoping one or more of the poems would perk them up.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 01:58 AM
Well, print them out and use them as compost.... Might be an interesting experiment!

:greenie

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 02:00 AM
Alternatively, I could roll and smoke them.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 02:02 AM
Ah, why didn't I think of that? Of course!

poetinahat
08-07-2015, 02:02 AM
I can see why a fresh start to the discussion was so critical. Who'd have imagined?

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 02:03 AM
Ah, why didn't I think of that? Of course!

No credit to me. I got the idea from William's cats.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 02:03 AM
We are making a real effort not to confuse anybody. How are we doing?

poetinahat
08-07-2015, 02:16 AM
C-

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 02:19 AM
Smoke a poem. You'll feel better.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 02:25 AM
Far out, man.

Ambrosia
08-07-2015, 04:47 AM
Part of my post from the other thread:


Magnificent job, everyone.

I already know which one I will likely put in the #1 slot of my vote when voting opens. It is the only one that gave me the most delicious chills when I read it. I reread it after I had finished all of the poems and the same chills washed over me. I love that!
Bravo! :Clap:

I have developed some criteria for narrowing down the field. Ok. In truth I have one thing in my criteria for narrowing down the field. I am not going to mention what it is, but was wondering if anyone else had a set thing or series of things they were looking for in making their choices. I'm not interested in "what" it is, but "how" you go about choosing from such a large group of excellent poems.

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 05:01 AM
I'm not going to rush in developing criteria, or in my reads.

I have never actually read 26 poems at one sitting before. It was an interesting experience, and I learned something about myself -- it really doesn't work for me. I need to read them one by one, a couple of times, and let the meaning sink in for a bit before moving on, or I pretty much miss much of the impact. My brain gets overloaded, and the more delicate nuances fly right over me.

I did better on a second, slower read of a few of them. It was interesting how differently they struck me, how the voices leapt out at me (I have a couple of guesses as to which poets submitted a couple of them) and how some things that flew right over my head the first time round hit me in the gut.

I usually do pretty well on a first read of a single poem. But not so much when it's 26 of them. Lesson learned.

So my approach, such as it is, will be to re-read a few of them a day, and narrow them down as I go.

William Haskins
08-07-2015, 05:24 AM
my plan is to :



eliminate half (13) based on an assessment that they are in the bottom 50% in terms of overall potency, i.e. moving me.
eliminate another three or four because their chosen form doesn't support and accentuate the theme as well as some others. this bleeds into word choice, metrical innovation and personal hygiene.
eliminate four or five of those remaining based on a highly subjective assessment of voice. this bleeds into worldview and, in a weird sort of way, likeability. since i have no idea who any of the poets are, this is a deeply unfair snap judgment of the person clutching the pen. i'm superficial like that.


that should leave four or five to whittle down. if any ties emerge, they will be resolved thusly:



a 4-way tie, we go to the swimsuit competition.
a 3-way tie, we go to the threeway.
head-to-head: settled with hatchets.


reminder: i can be bribed.

and because i am a white male landowner, my vote counts twice as much.

Magdalen
08-07-2015, 05:39 AM
I too will
space out
my readings, and render results via methods similar to some mentioned in the posts above, including a wanton requirement
for visceral thrills.

Salute to the buzz
of AW bees!!

Stew21
08-07-2015, 05:39 AM
I'm pinning the tail.

Who has a blindfold?

poetinahat
08-07-2015, 05:39 AM
I'm just snippy because I have no dogs, and I don't smoke anymore - nor drink. All I got is black coffee and a fourteen-hour time difference.

So, William, I apologise - fully and frankly - for the influence my post may have had in chilling discussion or posts being deleted.

Now then.

I have to read each poem at least twice, and not all at once. I agree with Cassandra - I can't address poems as job lots.

I believe in first impressions, but I also believe in emerging qualities. I don't really like choosing 'best' or 'favorite' in anything. But contests demand winners, and I try to separate that from the notion of value of each poem.

Does the order of the poems make any difference to you? I did mix up the order of the poems - they're not alphabetical by title or author, and they're not listed in order they were submitted.

Steppe
08-07-2015, 05:42 AM
My plan is not really mine. Ok, sort of, but only in its application.

I intend to critique from two to three poems a day till done using Ursula T' Gibson's ten point scheme I found on Poetry Soup.

I realize not everyone is going to have the time that us old retired folk have to do this, but I also want to learn to do better work at critiquing than I have been. This is a golden opportunity to do that. I should also be able to do a better job of awarding place to the final best.

I too am really happy with the turn out and quality. Best of luck to all those who entered!

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 05:44 AM
I've decided I'm going to copy and paste them into Microsoft Word, on separate pages, and then print them out.

Possibly I am pathetic and old-school, but I think it will help me focus and do a better job assessing them.

skelly
08-07-2015, 06:47 AM
I've invented a ridiculously complicated x y this that axis and some calculus algebraic ranking thing. Oddly enough, the higher the negative number you score the more beer I have to drink to figure it all out. Weird, huh? Anyway, I'm looking forward to making my selections.

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 06:51 AM
I think we should all skip straight to the swimsuit competition and the threeways.

Ambrosia
08-07-2015, 06:52 AM
Cass, you are not the only one who likes to read works on paper. I would have to borrow the printer to do that, but I imagine my co-author wouldn't scream too loudly if I printed them out.

I already know which poem is my #1 choice, do to the chills I received when reading it. Unless that changes drastically in the coming days while I work on what my #2 and #3 choices are, then I have one poem down. I doubt it will, though. Usually my initial shiver factor is pretty accurate.

Rob, the order of the poems makes no difference at all to me. If I get the poems printed out, they won't stay in that order anyway because I will chop them up into individual pieces and move them around as I read through them. But whether that happens or not, the order doesn't affect me one way or another.

I was blessed to have the time to do a complete read of all the poems at once. I won't say that is a normal way for me to proceed, but I was glad to be able to do it this time as it gave me an overview of what the poems offered. Now I will take my time to slowly go through each one and reflect on it and judge it against the one criteria that I have set. I hope by the end of that process, however long that takes, to have a lesser field to choose from. I have to narrow it down to be able to find just three.

It is always a problem for me in these contests because so many good poems are submitted. Choosing just three is torture, really. I'm glad for the time we have to read and reflect on them before voting begins.

skelly
08-07-2015, 06:56 AM
I think we should all skip straight to the swimsuit competition and the threeways.

I'm in.

William Haskins
08-07-2015, 07:26 AM
So, William, I apologise - fully and frankly - for the influence my post may have had in chilling discussion or posts being deleted.

absolutely not necessary. i lobbied for a clean thread then proceeded to do what i do, leave cup rings on the furniture and chips in the carpet and make long-distance calls without permission.

besides my dogs and cats reminded me that they are not my property and that their privacy is not something that should be compromised for my perpetual comedy routine.

so i will apologize and endeavor to offset my frequent idiocy with an occasional worthwhile insight.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 07:34 AM
Instructions for voting:

Print out the poems.

After printing them out, fold each into a tiny origami figure of one of the U.S. Presidents. Do not duplicate your Presidents, but use a different one for each poem.

Then, place each President carefully, so as not to muss his hair, in an empty and thoroughly washed SPAM can, of which 26 have been provided by mysterious forces.

Each can is sealed with a melted wax blend made of ancient Crayolas and Turtle Wax. This you should have on hand.

Blindfolded, you must take each can up, hold it aloft, and hurl it out a window to the ground. Though there will not be 26 windows available in most dwellings, you must rotate through all available windows, until each can is hurled.

Sit down on the floor. Do not bother to assume full lotus. Feel free to remove the blindfold. Wait for one of the cans to return to you. In case this takes a while, you may provision yourself with a packet of Nabs.

If, after three days, no can has returned, deploy the dogs. They will begin to bring cans to you, and the order in which the cans return is the order of your votes. Reversed, of course.

skelly
08-07-2015, 07:35 AM
What's a "long distance" phone call?

William Haskins
08-07-2015, 07:36 AM
a way to touch a butt or heart from very far away via companies that prey on fear of technology and lack of common sense.

William Haskins
08-07-2015, 07:38 AM
Instructions for voting:

Print out the poems.

After printing them out, fold each into a tiny origami figure of one of the U.S. Presidents. Do not duplicate your Presidents, but use a different one for each poem.

Then, place each President carefully, so as not to muss his hair, in an empty and thoroughly washed SPAM can, of which 26 have been provided by mysterious forces.

Each can is sealed with a melted wax blend made of ancient Crayolas and Turtle Wax. This you should have on hand.

Blindfolded, you must take each can up, hold it aloft, and hurl it out a window to the ground. Though there will not be 26 windows available in most dwellings, you must rotate through all available windows, until each can is hurled.

Sit down on the floor. Do not bother to assume full lotus. Feel free to remove the blindfold. Wait for one of the cans to return to you. In case this takes a while, you may provision yourself with a packet of Nabs.

If, after three days, no can has returned, deploy the dogs. They will begin to bring cans to you, and the order in which the cans return is the order of your votes. Reversed, of course.

yeah but without the human sacrifice, it's really only homage.

skelly
08-07-2015, 07:43 AM
I'd pay extra for the touching butts from a distance part, fear of technology notwithstanding. But you probably already knew that.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 07:45 AM
yeah but without the human sacrifice, it's really only homage.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a volunteer.

William Haskins
08-07-2015, 07:48 AM
I'd pay extra for the touching butts from a distance part, fear of technology notwithstanding. But you probably already knew that.

i am painfully aware.

poetinahat
08-07-2015, 07:52 AM
absolutely not necessary.
i lobbied for
a clean thread then proceeded
to do what
i do,

leave cup rings on the
furniture and chips
in the carpet and make
long-distance calls
without
permission.

What I forgot: That's why we're here. No coasters, no doilies.

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 07:56 AM
Oh, thank god. I fucking hate doilies.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 07:57 AM
Rob, I did appreciate that the order of entries was randomized or at least, jumbled.

Since you asked. :)

poetinahat
08-07-2015, 07:58 AM
What I forgot: That's why we're here. No coasters, no doilies.


Oh, thank god. I fucking hate doilies.

well, maybe this one (http://www.foundshit.com/crochet-gun-holster-set/)

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 07:59 AM
Oh, thank god. I fucking hate doilies.

These are A.I. doilies, though. The ones we don't have.

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 08:01 AM
I'm fine with the ones in piah's link. And perhaps I'll knit some exciting underwear for later.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 08:23 AM
some people don't know the difference between doilies and lingerie.

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 08:26 AM
some people don't know the difference between doilies and lingerie.

Both tend to end up under the coffee table by the end of the night.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 08:28 AM
Both tend to end up under the coffee table by the end of the night.

By very different means, however.

CassandraW
08-07-2015, 08:31 AM
Not at my place.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 08:39 AM
Must be some interesting doilies.

poetinahat
08-07-2015, 08:43 AM
That's GOLD

Think I'll order this set for my stripper alter ego:

Rick Crochet

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 09:00 AM
He bounces back.

poetinahat
08-07-2015, 09:49 AM
He's always got an angle.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 05:26 PM
I'm really enjoying spending time with these poems. I've read through them enough times that I've penetrated the surface glow, which was a delicious one. Now I am beginning to appreciate the structural niceties and the distinct voices.

Rob, do you think maybe a forums-wide announcement banner thing with a link to the poems, and also including a link to the timetable of reading and voting, might be a good idea?

Or would it just make us invisible after being up there so long, eyes glaze over and skim past...?

thehairymob
08-07-2015, 06:15 PM
I'll read them once
then read them twice
and the best
I'll read thrice
just to be sure
I vote
for the greatest
from such wonder.

Kylabelle
08-07-2015, 06:24 PM
:)

Priene
08-07-2015, 08:04 PM
I found my favourite before I'd even read all of them. With me and poetry it's a love-at-first-sight kind of thing.

Sarita
08-07-2015, 11:40 PM
I found my favourite before I'd even read all of them. With me and poetry it's a love-at-first-sight kind of thing.
Absolutely. Poetry either kicks you in the pants or it doesn't. I've narrowed my list down to 8, all of which I love for very different reasons. Now, the stewing begins!

Stew21
08-08-2015, 12:19 AM
I've zeroed in a couple of them also.

One in particular really struck me. It's more a gut thing than a study thing for me, but I'll still have to worry about numbers 2 and 3.

zarada
08-08-2015, 12:44 AM
Instructions for voting:

Print out the poems.

After printing them out, fold each into a tiny origami figure of one of the U.S. Presidents. Do not duplicate your Presidents, but use a different one for each poem.

Then, place each President carefully, so as not to muss his hair, in an empty and thoroughly washed SPAM can, of which 26 have been provided by mysterious forces.

Each can is sealed with a melted wax blend made of ancient Crayolas and Turtle Wax. This you should have on hand.

Blindfolded, you must take each can up, hold it aloft, and hurl it out a window to the ground. Though there will not be 26 windows available in most dwellings, you must rotate through all available windows, until each can is hurled.



hah. why didn't i think of that? seems easy enough! (fighting urge to insert snickering smiley).

well, i had a first read of all in one session; the aim was simply to 'meet' them; no judgement, no conclusions. plan to let that first read braise in its own juices for another day or so, after which i shall proceed to the second, slower, more inquisitive lecture. with a glass of red nearby. maybe two.

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 12:47 AM
hah. why didn't i think of that? seems easy enough! (fighting urge to insert snickering smiley).

Don't forget you have to sacrifice Haskins when you're done.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 12:50 AM
No fair. I wasn't done playing with him.

zarada
08-08-2015, 01:27 AM
Don't forget you have to sacrifice Haskins when you're done.

sacrifice? right off? that's no fun. how 'bout a penance, something not involving the writing side of his body (bet he's a lefty, huh?) -- we still need his input.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 02:06 AM
at the risk of interrupting various murder fantasies involving me, here's what seems like a fairly legit question: given that the poems are posted behind the password-protected wall, to what degree may we discuss them without causing distress to poets who may not want portions of their work out here for open public consumption? any serious discussion, i would think, requires quoting lines, if not whole chunks, of the poem being discussed.

what should the protocol be?

and i am right-handed. except for stabbing.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 02:09 AM
I'd wondered that. My own inclination was not to discuss any of the individual poems in an open thread, but more the contest generally, the process of judging, and such like.


ETA:

Besides how the poets might feel, I'm not sure (in a contest) that I want to sway anyone with my own insights about the poems.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 02:10 AM
then i am renouncing my citizenship and rejecting god.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 02:13 AM
oh, good. can I come with you?

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 02:15 AM
there will be no coming back.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 02:17 AM
even better. what shall I pack?

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 02:18 AM
no need. we will eat and wear what we kill.

zarada
08-08-2015, 02:21 AM
I'd wondered that. My own inclination was not to discuss any of the individual poems in an open thread, but more the contest generally, the process of judging, and such like.


ETA:

Besides how the poets might feel, I'm not sure (in a contest) that I want to sway anyone with my own insights about the poems.

but not discussing them except in general is just not fun at all (pout), is it? after all, what is more valuable -- winning a contest, or... learning something new about your writing? besides, i doubt that serious critiquers could be swayed by others' opinions. right?

hm... how about a poll -- who is for, who is against (i love polls). i think William should do the poll.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 02:21 AM
no need. we will eat and wear what we kill.

I shall fashion a cudgel from a sturdy branch, and we can be on our way.

zarada
08-08-2015, 02:23 AM
no need. we will eat and wear what we kill.

not too promising that, if you use your left arm. then again, running 'round nude seems to be coming back in fashion in certain districts of the milder states.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 02:25 AM
but not discussing them except in general is just not fun at all (pout), is it? after all, what is more valuable -- winning a contest, or... learning something new about your writing? besides, i doubt that serious critiquers could be swayed by others' opinions. right?

hm... how about a poll -- who is for, who is against (i love polls). i think William should do the poll.

We could always discuss the poems after the contest, to the extent the poets are interested in having them discussed and critiqued. And then they could choose whether it be done in an open thread or a password protected thread.

Sometimes I am no fun at all.

ETA:

That said, I have no poem in the contest and therefore no skin in the game. Perhaps the entrants should decide this?

zarada
08-08-2015, 02:30 AM
Sometimes I am no fun at all.

:e2moon:

(sorry, i tried and tried, but couldn't resist).

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 02:34 AM
Perhaps the entrants should decide this?

this particular entrant doesn't care. but i suspect i'm in the minority.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 02:35 AM
:e2moon:

(sorry, i tried and tried, but couldn't resist).

I cannot blame you. sometimes I want to do that to myself.

at any rate, seriously, I suspect I'm in the minority on this one.

- - - Updated - - -


this particular entrant doesn't care. but i suspect i'm in the minority.

we can't both be in the minority, damn it.

zarada
08-08-2015, 02:36 AM
Perhaps the entrants should decide this?

yes, that.

and may I retract my former position-taking, please?

Sarita
08-08-2015, 02:50 AM
this particular entrant doesn't care. but i suspect i'm in the minority. Nor do I. I would think most can't be swayed from the way poetry makes them feel, and can't have opinions changed too easily. I'd love to hear feedback or critique of my work. Any chance to learn. Seriously. Total nerd.

poetinahat
08-08-2015, 02:55 AM
Good question. I'd thought about this, but decided that if a new rule weren't needed, I wouldn't make one.

The entrants didn't have a voice in the decision to password-protect the entries in the first place. That was my default policy.

Opinions welcome; otherwise, my vote would be to trust your own judgment. That's what makes this forum such a delight in the first place.

poetinahat
08-08-2015, 03:07 AM
(sorry... thread closing was accidental. ironic, though, heh)

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 03:12 AM
I'd assumed you'd finally had enough of our shenanigans.

Ambrosia
08-08-2015, 03:28 AM
I'd wondered that. My own inclination was not to discuss any of the individual poems in an open thread, but more the contest generally, the process of judging, and such like.


ETA:

Besides how the poets might feel, I'm not sure (in a contest) that I want to sway anyone with my own insights about the poems.

I have been inclined to be so general I wouldn't even mention my criteria for cutting down on the number of poems I am choosing between, because I do not want to influence anyone's vote with my own brand of madness.

It's a contest and my own feelings on the matter are that the poems should stand or fall on their own strength without critique to change a person's mind about what they might choose. I don't want to influence anyone else. There will be plenty of time after if the entrants want to post their poems in the critique section to comment specifically on the poems.

poetinahat
08-08-2015, 03:40 AM
I'd assumed you'd finally had enough of our shenanigans.
Werecthey shenanigans, hi jinks, antics, or monkeyshines? I'm new at this.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 03:41 AM
just to clarify my position, i am talking about discussion rather than critique.

but i would much rather be able to quote a line and point out what i find beautiful about it than just say, "yeah and one of them had a really beautiful line in it."

that would make me want to put a fork through my eye.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 03:43 AM
Werecthey shenanigans, hi jinks, antics, or monkeyshines? I'm new at this.

I think it varied a bit from poet to poet. William appeared to be engaged primarily in monkeyshines. I, on the other hand, was involved in shenanigans.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 03:44 AM
i prefer to think of them as monkeyshinanigans.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 03:45 AM
that would make me want to put a fork through my eye.


Would you use your right or your left hand for that?

- - - Updated - - -


i prefer to think of them as monkeyshinanigans.

that's what we do together, dear.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 03:46 AM
Would you use your right or your left hand for that?

it's technically stabbing, so i would southpaw it.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 03:49 AM
it's technically stabbing, so i would southpaw it.


I figured, but I didn't want to jump to conclusions. Fork-stabbing might well call for a different jab than knife-stabbing.

Ambrosia
08-08-2015, 03:49 AM
just to clarify my position, i am talking about discussion rather than critique.

but i would much rather be able to quote a line and point out what i find beautiful about it than just say, "yeah and one of them had a really beautiful line in it."

that would make me want to put a fork through my eye.

Yeah, me too.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 03:51 AM
I figured, but I didn't want to jump to conclusions. Fork-stabbing might well call for a different jab than knife-stabbing.

you extend me far too much credit for subtlety.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 03:54 AM
you extend me far too much credit for subtlety.

not so much subtlety as complexity and perversity.

I can envision you jamming the fork tines-side up in the ground and then falling on it, just to spite our expectations.

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 03:55 AM
I wonder how much anonymity would be preserved if we discuss specific poems and quote them before the vote.

And while discussion might not influence the choices of some, I bet it would influence others.

I'd think the critiquing and quoting and all that belongs after the voting is done.

/unpopular opinion

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 04:00 AM
so, by that logic, if they were all side by side in glass cases, like the constitution or the magna carta or marilyn monroe's playboy centerfold, and we were filing by, museum-style, and reading them, we'd need to avoid eyebrow arches or gasps of joy or gales of cruel laughter, lest we not influence those around us?

/unpopular person

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 04:03 AM
so, by that logic, if they were all side by side in glass cases, like the constitution or the magna carta or marilyn monroe's playboy centerfold, and we were filing by, museum-style, and reading them, we'd need to avoid eyebrow arches or gasps of joy or gales of cruel laughter, lest we not influence those around us?

/unpopular person

oh, let's save that for the swimsuit competition.

/incurably silly person

ETA:

To be serious --

I am extremely unlikely to be influenced by anyone else's opinion, unless, possibly, they point out a nuance I missed. And that's all to the good. I'm an arrogant bitch who thinks I know better than pretty much everyone. And I assess my own critiquing and analyzing abilities highly, particularly when it comes to poetry.

I'm betting that's more or less true for everyone in this discussion thread so far (not the arrogance, but the "not likely to be unduly influenced").

To the extent we have non-poets wandering in, or newbie poets, or people who aren't as insufferably egotistical as I am, though, they might be influenced by strong opinions. Or by lack of opinion ("Gee, I like that one, but none of the poets seem to be discussing it, so maybe it's not so good as that one they're all discussing...") A lot of people are surprisingly insecure about their own ability to read a poem.

/person to whom William will never speak again

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 04:07 AM
well i've already congratulated the contestants on their originality and the diversity of the submissions. i've discussed in a fair amount of detail how i will go about determining how i vote. i've made myriad stupid jokes. i think i may be done here.

guess i'll see you all at the awards ceremony.

spoiler alert: i will be drunk. and pantsless.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 04:14 AM
oh, I'll look forward to that.

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 04:24 AM
That'll teach me to admit to an unpopular opinion!

/wonders who handed her the deciding vote anyway?

/gives it back.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 04:29 AM
I should be used to being unpopular by now, after years of P&CE, but somehow it feels different here.

/woman who shall now banish herself from the forum forever and dwell wherever she can wail and gnash her teeth in peace

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 04:30 AM
nah i get your point. we just differ on it.

i think, in a contest being decided by a panel of judges, it should be a solitary endeavor for each to preserve the deliberative virtues that got them chosen for the job.

these are all on (semi) public display, more akin to paintings than my sloppy analogy upthread, and i think if it's a public poll and there's a public viewing, there's probably going to be public chatter.

but now i've made the issue conspicuous by over-discussing it.

all i have to say is, in one of the odd-numbered poems, in the first or perhaps the second stanza, one of the even numbered lines contains a phrase of three to five words that really spoke to me.

so, great job to one of you!

poetinahat
08-08-2015, 04:34 AM
I should've known that "let your conscience be your guide" would lead to a discussion thread that resembles Billy in Family Circus.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 04:35 AM
your presumption of conscience is baffling.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 04:41 AM
It sounds to me like we're free to do as we see fit. Unless I'm mistaken, you may tell us which phrase of three to five words really spoke to you.

Although I'm going to disagree. I felt that one stanza in that even-numbered poem was far more insightful.

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 04:48 AM
I want to know what everyone has to say specifically about any of the poems. I hate having to wait to vote. But the whole community is meant to at least have the chance to read and vote so I guess the long lead time makes sense. I agree it's kind of stultifying to avoid referring to specific elements if we're going to talk about the poems.

/blargle

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 04:54 AM
Out of pure curiosity, what have we done in past contests?

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 04:58 AM
I haven't participated in a poetry contest -- well, I did in the critique contest, but that's a bit different.

In the two story contests I entered here, people didn't discuss the stories til after the voting, in any specific terms. I don't know if that was spelled out or just assumed.

/pure in all things

poetinahat
08-08-2015, 05:47 AM
There's no explicit precedent.

people haven't discussed particulars in the threads before, but that's never been by design.

this is why we're here, what we hope for, hey? It's a wonderful thing to have so many people here who are keen. I say let's make some noise...

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 05:50 AM
*hands out vuvuzelas to everyone*

C.bronco
08-08-2015, 05:59 AM
Maybe all of the judges, unless voting for my poem, must put their votes to ukulele music before being considered. Just a thought.

poetinahat
08-08-2015, 06:32 AM
Balalaikas are nice too.

skelly
08-08-2015, 07:13 AM
I have been tossing this question back and forth in my mind since William posed it and as long as anonymity is maintained and people aren't qouting more than a few lines what's the harm? If the discussion here changes someone's vote so be it. Next time we'll know. I think the poet's here can make their own choices without being unduly influenced by the general discussion. Let's go for it and see what happens.

Steppe
08-08-2015, 09:22 AM
Disagree! I don't think it's fair to those who have submitted. It isn't that long to wait! If poems are going to be discussed before the vote, it might discourage folk from entering future contests! Let's wait! Please.

PS- The poems get better each and every time I read them! Every poem deserves its moment in the sun.

Wait!

skelly
08-08-2015, 04:10 PM
I certainly respect your opinion Steppe but I'm not in agreement that quoting a few favorite lines from the poems we are considering will discourage future contest participation.

At any rate, I've read all the poems three times now, not really digging into them just sort of letting the language flow. Last night I finally started getting serious. I made three columns on a sheet of typing paper: YES! for the ones I loved instantly, MAYBE for the ones that didn't quite hit me hard enough to make it to the YES! list but too good to be on my last list, which is NO!

So, I've narrowed my choices down to 13 poems, 8 on the YES! list and 5 on the MAYBE list. Now the hard part begins. The poems on my YES! list are all so equally fantastic I may have to put their numbers in a hat and draw one.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 06:23 PM
i feel like i'm beating a dead horse, but since discussion of the poems in the discussion thread for the poetry contest seems largely discouraged, we'll discuss why we shouldn't discuss them.

i would love to know more about the reasoning behind this:


If poems are going to be discussed before the vote, it might discourage folk from entering future contests!

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 07:22 PM
i feel like i'm beating a dead horse, but since discussion of the poems in the discussion thread for the poetry contest seems largely discouraged, we'll discuss why we shouldn't discuss them.

i would love to know more about the reasoning behind this:

I cannot speak for Steppe (or anyone else, for that matter).

But it is possible that some (particularly non-regulars in the poetry forum) might shrink from having their poem openly compared to other poems in the competition. It is one thing to have your poem analyzed and discussed on its own merits or lack thereof. And while you might be disappointed not to win a prize, you'll be in good company among a couple of dozen others. But having your poem openly compared and contrasted with other poems in the context of an ongoing competition -- I think some might shrink from that. Particularly if they're relatively new to poetry and know they're up against veterans of this forum with many poems under their belt.

One reason I did not enter was because my space poem (and yes, I wrote one) is so deeply personal I shrank from having it compared with and rated against dozens of others. I might or might not post it. If I do, I will welcome comments. But I didn't want it ranked against other poems. (And yes, I realize that I am overly emotional and irrational about this -- and about poetry in general, frankly, which is why I'm gradually subsiding back into being a lurker.)

I have a bit of an issue with poetry contests, to tell you the truth. Though certainly some poems have more technical merit than others, and absolutely some poems speak to me and some do not, I find it difficult to rank two very different poems that both work splendidly on their own terms. Sure, I'll vote. But once I've weeded out the ones that I feel have less technical merit, it's going to be a purely subjective "gee, this really spoke to me" and not a "this is the very best poem" decision.

That said, I'm not in the contest, I suspect that my take on this is freakish at best and cowardly at worst, and you all should do as you please. I will not quibble. Bless you all, go in peace, be fruitful and multiply, and so forth.

Despise me if you must, William. I always knew it must come to that in the end.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 07:31 PM
i don't despise anyone; i'm selfish and i reserve my hatred for myself.

your points are valid, though i'm at a loss as to how someone consciously entering a contest can expect anything other than that their work will be compared to other entries. it's sort of the nature of a contest.

i'll once again draw a distinction between critique and discussion.

hell, all i wanted to do was test the waters and see if it would be acceptable to quote a couplet i thought was pretty goddamn interesting.

but i'm crying "uncle" on this one and will just urge folks to read and vote when the time comes.

the turnout and selection deserve it.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 07:38 PM
sexist bastard. why not call "aunt"?

(seriously, it sounds as though many are on your side of the fence. for that matter, I have no real side. I did not enter for precisely the reason you suggest, and I'm now quite curious about which couplet intrigued you, and whether it is one that jumped out at me.)

eta:


your points are valid, though i'm at a loss as to how someone consciously entering a contest can expect anything other than that their work will be compared to other entries. it's sort of the nature of a contest.

yes, I essentially agree with that. although again I will note that it is one thing to win or not win, and another to have your merit compared and contrasted directly against someone else (which you might not do, but surely some would) in the context of a competition.

I also must submit that if someone influential in this forum, like, say, you, praised one poem to the skies or did one of your excellent in-depth critiques, it very likely would influence the way many saw that poem in comparison to the others you did not so discuss -- especially if stew, piah, etc. jumped on the bandwagon.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 07:44 PM
seriously, it sounds as though many are on your side of the fence.

they need to get off my lawn.


I'm now quite curious about which couplet intrigued you, and whether it is one that jumped out at me.)

i'll be taking that to my grave. hopefully soon.

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 08:00 PM
I would beg you not to die, only then you'd do it just to spite me.

kennyc
08-08-2015, 08:11 PM
....
I also must submit that if someone influential in this forum, like, say, you, praised one poem to the skies or did one of your excellent in-depth critiques, it very likely would influence the way many saw that poem in comparison to the others ......

This 'influence peddling' (whether by someone 'influencial' or not) is more the issue to me. It can definitely sway the voting one way or another. That's why in contests such as this my preference is to hold off on the discussion until after the voting.

Ambrosia
08-08-2015, 08:12 PM
I also must submit that if someone influential in this forum, like, say, you, praised one poem to the skies or did one of your excellent in-depth critiques, it very likely would influence the way many saw that poem in comparison to the others you did not so discuss -- especially if stew, piah, etc. jumped on the bandwagon.

That is my thought also, Cass, whether it is an in-depth critique or "just" praise. Which is why I am against discussion of individual poems until after the voting is completed. However, I may be in a minority in that. I know that in past contests people have entered who do not frequent the poetry section. There are many poets out in the nether regions of AW who, for whatever reason, don't show up very often to post here, if at all. But some of those do enter the contests. I wouldn't want to do anything that would make even one of them uncomfortable enough to go back to permanent lurking. Because I view that as a loss to our community.


(And yes, I realize that I am overly emotional and irrational about this -- and about poetry in general, frankly, which is why I'm gradually subsiding back into being a lurker.)

Cass, I hope you will not do that, not become a lurker. You are a valuable member of the poetry forum and it would lessen us as a whole if you became a lurker instead of a contributing member. Don't take your brilliance and hide it under a basket. It's ok to let it shine--emotional, irrational, or not. Your light is glorious. Don't let fear hide it.

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 08:12 PM
I wish y'all would quit arguing. I'm trying to work on my spreadsheet here.

ETA: I agree about Cass, Patty, but I was going to ignore it and hope later on she'll change her ways again.

E double TA: Also, Cass, what was that about overly emotional and irrational? No you're not.

/argues

Ambrosia
08-08-2015, 08:15 PM
We're not arguing, Kyla. We're discussing. :)

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 08:18 PM
I was kidding.

Mostly.

Ambrosia
08-08-2015, 08:21 PM
I was kidding.

Mostly.

I figured that. Mostly. ;)

kennyc
08-08-2015, 08:24 PM
I figured that. Mostly. ;)

I mostly like peanut butter.

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 08:24 PM
Somehow I managed to get my post in the wrong order in the thread.

I need to go back to bed and start this day over.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 08:25 PM
somewhere out there, at least a dozen poets are reading this thread and asking what the fuck they've gotten themselves into.

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 08:25 PM
Good.

kennyc
08-08-2015, 08:34 PM
somewhere out there, at least a dozen poets are reading this thread and asking what the fuck they've gotten themselves into.

Wait. If they are poets they should be already asking themselves, what the fuck have they gotten themselves into. :Shrug:

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 08:39 PM
Exactly so.

William Haskins
08-08-2015, 08:45 PM
Wait. If they are poets they should be already asking themselves, what the fuck have they gotten themselves into. :Shrug:

ain't that the truth, brother...

CassandraW
08-08-2015, 09:24 PM
and so this thread serves the valuable purpose of confronting and discussing what the fuck we've gotten ourselves into.

Magdalen
08-08-2015, 10:25 PM
somewhere out there, at least a dozen poets are reading this thread and asking what the fuck they've gotten themselves into.

I haven't had multiple personalities in ages, so I'm thinking this is not directed at me, but also add that I'm all for discussing the works presented (just as I do admire certain attributes or technical abilities of some athletes in competition) but I'm also fine with waiting.

Steppe
08-08-2015, 10:40 PM
OK,just a follow-up (for what it's worth). I thought the thread was for discussion of the contest itself, not the poems. I did not start it so can't say for certain.

Some of you don't realize the enormous weight your opinion caries. If that opinion is about an entered poem (or even part of it) it carries great importance. We tend to downplay our importance through modesty (or false modesty), but it's there none-the-less.

My advice for whatever it's worth, is to let those who are critiquing these poems have the time to do that, uninfluenced by someone's opinion about said poems.

zarada
08-08-2015, 11:10 PM
discussion of specific poems without naming them, as well as quoting one or two lines from said poem(s) should harm none (and furthermore increase general interest in poetry from non-aficionados, etc). for one to figure out which poem the quoted line is from, they'd have to back and read ALL of the pieces to dig it out - Bonus!

these are the mechanics as i see them. anyway, be it as it may.

Priene
08-08-2015, 11:30 PM
I don't think anyone's going to have much of an issue with their poem being praised in this discussion, so I might do a bit of that once voting has closed. If they want (a mild critique) / (suggestions for improvement) / (get it torn to shreds as if by a pack of ravenous hounds) they can always post it in the critique forum.

Disclosure: I didn't enter the competition - I decided to move house instead - so it's not going to affect me much either way.

Kylabelle
08-08-2015, 11:30 PM
Still agree with Steppe. It harms none, to quote a phrase or a line or two, but it will could influence those who are reading and considering their vote.

Someone upthread mentioned a panel of judges and the responsibilities such a panel holds. That's not the situation we've got here. We're inviting everyone who has any interest in this whatever to read and vote. I'd also like to give those less familiar with us, with poetry in general, plenty of space to find their way without influence. And as has been said, there will be ample time for quoting and discussing and praising and whatever, after voting is done.

~

On a different note, it might be good to restore the site-wide banner with links to key threads. Someone just asked me if there was still time to vote. Not everyone has been following along all that closely here. (So, if people aren't even reading this thread, hey, no influence possible! :greenie)

skelly
08-08-2015, 11:32 PM
I'm all for discussing the works presented (just as I do admire certain attributes or technical abilities of some athletes in competition
Is that what you kids are calling them these days?

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 01:03 AM
fuck that. i'm throwing around my influence like a boss.

number 28. you hear me?

28 should be the winner.

so take note, all you impressionable shrinking violet neophytes (who exist, far more i believe, in the minds of well-intentioned long-timers than actually in the wild): vote for number 28.

28. that is if you embrace the gravity of my influence as a proxy for your own critical thinking skills.

now, if you reject my influence based on my ugly track record of behavior like you are witnessing in this very post, then you will likely NOT vote for number 28, just out of spite, but also out of the same sort of intellectual spinelessness from which we are so valiantly trying to protect you.

in that case, sorry number 28. i wish it had gone down differently, but the crowd has spoken, as filtered through my esteemed opinion.

it is a cruel world, indeed.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 01:13 AM
Pfft. 28 is the work of a hack. Shallow, unformed, utterly lacking in craft.

How you can overlook the subtle rhymes and evocative imagery of 32 in favor of that piece of shlock is beyond me.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 01:16 AM
32 is the type of narcissistic hallmark-ization that has relegated poetry to an art form below gold spraypainted macaroni art.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 01:24 AM
I would hardly expect a pretentious philistine such as you to recognize the sparking originality and brio that emanates from every line of 32. The leaden rhythm and stultifying pedestrianism of theme embodied by 28 is exactly the kind of mediocre hash that has driven the masses to hip-hop and rap.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 01:29 AM
your inexplicable championing of the not-fit-for-birdcage-liner drivel exemplified by number 32 only goes to further demonstrate the extreme erosion of the art form. either that, or you are blind and you read a braille version of 28 mislabeled as 32.

there's no other explanation for your affinity for that emotionally-manipulative and uncreative chunk of dung.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 01:39 AM
It is just like your narcissistic arrogance to dismiss offhand anyone who doesn't embrace your narrow-minded, thickheaded viewpoint as gospel. I would find your lack of penetration in failing to appreciate the merits of 32 astounding, were it not so exactly in line with your hamhanded praise of 28's amateurish doggerel.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 01:43 AM
this is getting a little heated, so let me slow down so as not to be misunderstood. the "poet" who submitted 32 should be deleted.

not the poem. not from the forum.

deleted. from the world.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 01:45 AM
I would print out number 28 to paper train my dog, but he is far too discerning to deposit his excrement on such loathsome dreck.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 01:48 AM
i can see my attempts to gin up votes for my entry have met with some resistance.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 01:52 AM
I could not allow you to so blatantly manipulate the contest. We shall see which of us is more revered by the lurkers.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 01:52 AM
i am undone.

zarada
08-09-2015, 01:53 AM
:popcorn:

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 01:54 AM
Then at last I am content.

Magdalen
08-09-2015, 02:15 AM
i am undone.

You've come undun?
These eyes, taking care of business as they will do, suggest you start lookin out for number one, bub, or there'll be no sugar tonight in your coffee, and certainly no sugar in your tea!!!

skelly
08-09-2015, 02:17 AM
Pfft. 28 is the work of a hack. Shallow, unformed, utterly lacking in craft.


I've actually had reviews that sounded just like this. Almost word for word. Thanks for the flashback :)

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 02:22 AM
You've come undun?
These eyes, taking care of business as they will do, suggest you start lookin out for number one, bub, or there'll be no sugar tonight in your coffee, and certainly no sugar in your tea!!!

He didn't know what he was headed for. And when he found what he was headed for, it was too late.

poetinahat
08-09-2015, 02:25 AM
It's interesting to see how fast the discussion went straight past "use your discretion" to all-or-nothing. Is that because few people trust anyone - even their comrades - to do the right thing? Because fear - or the most fearful - rule in the end? Or is it more benign -- we're all that concerned for each other that, though we grumble, we'll abide by the most restrictive desire? Or something else?

Poems: more like guns than anyone knew.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 02:28 AM
i give you shakespeare, you give me the guess who.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 02:29 AM
Is that because few people trust anyone - even their comrades - to do the right thing?

shit man, it's way worse than that. i don't even trust myself to do the right thing.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 02:30 AM
i give you shakespeare, you give me the guess who.

Pretty much sums up our entire relationship so far, does it not?

Magdalen
08-09-2015, 02:33 AM
shit man, it's way worse than that. i don't even trust myself to do the right thing.

Often enuf, my right thing is someone else's totally wrong thing, how dare you???

Disclaimer: I am not left-handed, but members of my family are.

- - - Updated - - -


i give you shakespeare, you give me the guess who.
There's BTO bonus tracks at the end, ffs!!!

Kylabelle
08-09-2015, 03:06 AM
Well, I'm not at all sure how the wish to have a quote-free read period before voting gets characterized as fearful and maximally restrictive, lacking all trust in the good will of our peers, but maybe I'm missing something.

I will say the arguments here are way more entertaining than boring old agreement could ever be. So for the sake of that alone, venturing a counter-opinion is well rewarded.

:popcorn:

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 03:13 AM
Well, there is the wretched enmity that has torn asunder my once close friendship with William.

Magdalen
08-09-2015, 03:16 AM
It's interesting to see how fast the discussion went straight past "use your discretion" to all-or-nothing. Is that because few people trust anyone - even their comrades - to do the right thing? Because fear - or the most fearful - rule in the end? Or is it more benign -- we're all that concerned for each other that, though we grumble, we'll abide by the most restrictive desire? Or something else?

Poems: more like guns than anyone knew.

Well, also, there's the RYFW thingy in addition to specifically Steppe's request for how this thingy goes down, not to mention (!) that he's the PL right now.? Still, I remain ambivalent, tending toward a snappy come-back soon, dear fellow poet (s).

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 03:19 AM
Well, also, there's the RYFW thingy in addition to specifically Steppe's request for how this thingy goes down, not to mention (!) that he's the PL right now.? Still, I remain ambivalent, tending toward a snappy come-back soon, dear fellow poet (s).

Beware, Magdalen. Take heed of the bitter fruit that has already been the sad harvest of this fatal quarrel.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 03:23 AM
it's all in good fun. but it's possible i have a different definition of good fun than others.

still, no harm has been done. the poems are safely ensconced in the PW section, and nary a line has been discussed.

i have no desire to undermine the mods or our poet laureate.

i'm actually starting to become sympathetic to the notion, what with the presidential race heating up.

that's enough to warm me up to the idea that people should just read and shut the hell up and vote at the appointed time.

Kylabelle
08-09-2015, 03:26 AM
I think we should just start taking bets on the winners.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 03:26 AM
Easy for you to say. You have not spent the last half hour sobbing into a pillow.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 03:28 AM
is that a euphemism?

Kylabelle
08-09-2015, 03:29 AM
A half hour? Pfui. That's nothing. Some of us have to carry our pillows around with us, to sob in.

Or, is that what that thing you lug around is for?

Interesting pillow!

:greenie

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 03:35 AM
is that a euphemism?


Of course. But never underestimate your power to hurt me.

And yes, that is also a euphemism.


A half hour? Pfui. That's nothing. Some of us have to carry our pillows around with us, to sob in.

Or, is that what that thing you lug around is for?

That thing, as you term her, is for self defense against those who would wound my fragile sensibilities.

poetinahat
08-09-2015, 03:36 AM
Well, I'm not at all sure how the wish to have a quote-free read period before voting gets characterized as fearful and maximally restrictive, lacking all trust in the good will of our peers, but maybe I'm missing something.

Well, for a start, I don't agree with your casting of the question.

The original suggestion was "discuss the poems, but use your good judgement" - not "openly critique the entries". My observation was just the absence of middle ground.

Feel free to PM.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 03:40 AM
you're absolutely correct, and i saw no ambiguity in your response, rob.

others took a harder line of no discussion whatsoever, including steppe, so i withdrew (out of respect, as odd as it seems) into self-parody and general troublemaking.

same as it ever was.

"you knew i was a snake when you took me in..." and all that.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 03:44 AM
And always, I could not resist meeting William there.

Whither he goest, I shall go, and so forth.

Magdalen
08-09-2015, 04:09 AM
Quite the lively thread going on here,btw!!!

AW Admin
08-09-2015, 04:12 AM
i am undone.

Wilt thou forgive that sin where I begun,
Which was my sin, though it were done before?
Wilt thou forgive that sin, through which I run,
And do run still, though still I do deplore?
When thou hast done, thou hast not done,
For I have more.

Wilt thou forgive that sin which I have won
Others to sin, and made my sin their door?
Wilt thou forgive that sin which I did shun
A year or two, but wallow'd in, a score?
When thou hast done, thou hast not done,
For I have more.

I have a sin of fear, that when I have spun
My last thread, I shall perish on the shore;
But swear by thyself, that at my death thy Son
Shall shine as he shines now, and heretofore;
And, having done that, thou hast done;
I fear no more.

A Hymn to God the Father John Donne (15721631)

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 04:18 AM
did you just out the poem and poet #27????

jesus, lisa. have you not read the thread?

are you're, like, a head honcho. you want to talk about influence peddling?

well, i guess that's it. contest is over.

congratulations, john. enjoy your fucking prize.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 04:24 AM
As long as the prize doesn't go to that asshat who wrote number 28, I'm happy.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 04:26 AM
i've alerted the mods for calling me that.

plus you misspelled "hole."

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 04:28 AM
i've alerted the mods for calling me that.

plus you misspelled "hole."

The mods are well aware of what they've called you, I'm sure.

Steppe
08-09-2015, 04:33 AM
Since the contest properly belongs to all of us, through the kind benevolence of AW, and for the sake of peace, I withdraw my above posted disagreement. Let the poets rule!

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 04:36 AM
Let the poets rule!

plato's not going to like this.

http://www.slideshare.net/dilipbarad/platos-objections-to-poetry-and-aristotles-answers

poetinahat
08-09-2015, 04:48 AM
William, I shall never call you a holehat.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 04:52 AM
you're just saying that for fear he'll report you to yourself.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 04:52 AM
okay. i'm taking mrs. haskins out to dinner. text or call my cell if you need me.

fair warning: any of you degenerates drag any part of my entry into this cesspool and i will sue you into oblivion.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 04:53 AM
if anyone needs a lawyer, text or call my cell.

Magdalen
08-09-2015, 05:04 AM
I generally prefer to hold two or more conflicting views on any one issue, most of the time but not quite often.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 05:10 AM
You're absolutely right, but I couldn't disagree more.

Kylabelle
08-09-2015, 05:16 AM
Steppe, you're a prince.

I'm just gonna go with the flow here (if I can find it.)

C.bronco
08-09-2015, 05:17 AM
I hope I didn't start this controversy with my ukulele request. Ukuleles do make things more entertaining, however. I am open to any critiques for my stuff, btw.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 05:17 AM
Well, Mrs. Haskins has William out of the way. You need no longer fear to shred number 28 as it deserves.

poetinahat
08-09-2015, 05:19 AM
Since the contest properly belongs to all of us, through the kind benevolence of AW, and for the sake of peace, I withdraw my above posted disagreement. Let the poets rule!
The thing I love best about this thread is that it's all being worked out without - or despite - moderator participation, and with respect to all views.

But after looking in the mirror, I'm disappointed in one thing: the Nanny McPhee deal is a lie.

C.bronco
08-09-2015, 05:41 AM
I am so excited! It's been a while since I've sent any work out. I'm glad for the extra time to read through all of the poems.

skelly
08-09-2015, 07:50 AM
Steppe, you're a prince.

I'm just gonna go with the flow here (if I can find it.)

There is none. We'll have to make our own.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 08:20 AM
we were keeping an eye on you all during dinner. just so you know.

CassandraW
08-09-2015, 08:25 AM
Oh, good. Then sticking my tongue out all this time and waggling my ass wasn't a total waste of time.

Steppe
08-09-2015, 09:34 AM
plato's not going to like this.

http://www.slideshare.net/dilipbarad/platos-objections-to-poetry-and-aristotles-answers

I should have said(I am not as quick-witted as some) "MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU"!

poetinahat
08-09-2015, 11:49 AM
In the context of the political season, I love the idea of people changing their votes based on reasoned debate. It's so cute!*

Plus, I'm totally for #44. A fresh treatment of the War of the Roses - but with leprechauns and unicorns. That's bank!

*: In the context of Poetry, I'm really proud to be associated with a group who are all so interested, passionate about it, and civil in the end. Way to go, poets.

zarada
08-09-2015, 11:36 PM
well, i'm making progress with picking my winner... i've whittled it down to nineteen poems.

William Haskins
08-09-2015, 11:55 PM
STOP TRYING TO INFLUENCE THE VOTING!

CassandraW
08-10-2015, 12:00 AM
caps, exclamation points, bold type, large font and color.

William, you do realize you're only a hair's breadth away from using emoticons, do you not?

zarada
08-10-2015, 12:14 AM
STOP TRYING TO INFLUENCE THE VOTING!

haven i just nearly almost swayed your vote? sorry, let me correct that: it's twenty poems; had to add one back in, too good to be scrapped.

Kylabelle
08-10-2015, 12:18 AM
Well!

*rubs hands together*

What shall we choose as the theme of our next contest?

I propose the theme SHOWDOWN.

I think it would really bring out our mutual, collective, and individual best, especially in contrast to the theme SPACE with its inherent loose, anything-goes effervescence.

:greenie

CassandraW
08-10-2015, 12:23 AM
I've chosen my winner. After brutal, ruthless pruning, I'm down to half a dozen or so for second and third place. That will be the hardest part for me. I need to give it a couple of days before I re-read them -- I've changed my mind a couple of times.


Well!

*rubs hands together*

What shall we choose as the theme of our next contest?

I propose the theme SHOWDOWN.

I think it would really bring out our mutual, collective, and individual best, especially in contrast to the theme SPACE with its inherent loose, anything-goes effervescence.

:greenie

Fuck the poetry. I propose a steel cage match between William and me. Two poets enter, one poet leaves. No holds barred, and damn the metaphors.

He is more talented, but I fight dirty. Place your bets accordingly.

zarada
08-10-2015, 12:35 AM
Fuck the poetry. I propose a steel cage match between William and me. Two poets enter, one poet leaves. No holds barred, and damn the metaphors.

He is more talented, but I fight dirty. Place your bets accordingly.

love it. when?

CassandraW
08-10-2015, 12:40 AM
whenever William thinks he's ready.

Kylabelle
08-10-2015, 12:41 AM
I've the same problem. Narrowing down the second and third vote. It's nearly impossible to choose.

Ambrosia
08-10-2015, 12:46 AM
I've the same problem. Narrowing down the second and third vote. It's nearly impossible to choose.

Count me into that group. 2nd and 3rd. Why can't we have more winners? Three is way too limited.


ETA: And that is true in every poetry contest at AW. So many good poems, so few slots.

zarada
08-10-2015, 12:56 AM
you guys are too efficient. i feel sub-par.

Kylabelle
08-10-2015, 01:24 AM
There are always darts. It's a good way to pick winners.

Unless you entirely miss the target area, of course, which is what I would do.

Ambrosia
08-10-2015, 02:03 AM
But, I don't have any darts. :cry:

Kylabelle
08-10-2015, 02:09 AM
Then, you can't miss! You're golden!

Ambrosia
08-10-2015, 02:12 AM
Oh, excellent!

C.bronco
08-10-2015, 05:53 AM
There are so few poetry nerds these days. Wonder Twins Unite!

Priene
08-10-2015, 12:04 PM
Which one of you bastards has been influencing my vote?

Kylabelle
08-10-2015, 02:13 PM
Oh sorry, I just borrowed your darts for a minute. Here, I'll put them back right now.

ErezMA
08-10-2015, 07:42 PM
I've chosen my winner. After brutal, ruthless pruning, I'm down to half a dozen or so for second and third place. That will be the hardest part for me. I need to give it a couple of days before I re-read them -- I've changed my mind a couple of times.



Fuck the poetry. I propose a steel cage match between William and me. Two poets enter, one poet leaves. No holds barred, and damn the metaphors.

He is more talented, but I fight dirty. Place your bets accordingly.

I'm sorry, but I'm voting for William

...to lose.

shakeysix
08-10-2015, 08:19 PM
I have read them all and did not run screaming from my keyboard, although, clearly, I am in over my head. A dish of vanilla ice cream with fresh strawberries has calmed my whimpering ego. Maybe I am growing paper and print balls. I came here to overcome my fear of submitting.

Remember the Pink Panther movies? #1 jumped out at me like Kato ambushing Clouseau. There can be no doubt on that one. I will read for a few more days for 2&3--s6

Kylabelle
08-10-2015, 08:24 PM
Way to go Shakey!

I still haven't chosen my 2 and 3 either. I am letting them rest a bit. I'll have to try the vanilla ice cream refresher.

Ambrosia
08-10-2015, 08:25 PM
Several of us have chosen the poem we are going to vote for first place. It will be interesting to see after the voting is finished if it is the same poem.

Back to slaving over the other two choices. *sigh*

Kylabelle
08-10-2015, 09:12 PM
Several of us have chosen the poem we are going to vote for first place. It will be interesting to see after the voting is finished if it is the same poem.



Oh I hope not!

Sarita
08-10-2015, 09:45 PM
I have 2 in the front running, which decides 1st and 2nd. I think it'll be an eeny-meeny-miney-mo job. I have 6 more to pick from for 3rd place. I suspect that when I get down to it, it won't be too difficult to decide. I have to think that poems speak to everyone differently and I am trying to put my guilt aside when casting the vote.

Kylabelle
08-10-2015, 10:05 PM
Oh, have no guilt! Clearly nobody can vote for all the good poems in there, right?

I do think that after this is all over we might think about putting them all together in a chapbook.

Yeah, no guilt, but, regrets maybe. I do know already that the final cut is going to bleed.

thehairymob
08-11-2015, 05:15 PM
I also have first and second figured out but I have to choose from only three for third. :)

Sarita
08-11-2015, 08:45 PM
Yeah, no guilt, but, regrets maybe. I do know already that the final cut is going to bleed.
Yep. My pen is soaked with red, as I have made my final choices. In the end, it's the emotion of the thing. And no amount of reading and rereading is going to change that. The same poems that junk-punched me at the start are the same ones I have narrowed down. *whew* feeling pretty relieved.

Kylabelle
08-11-2015, 08:52 PM
Good for you! and I completely agree, it comes down to something nobody can measure or quantify.

zarada
08-12-2015, 01:18 AM
still not much further along. got it down to eleven tough -- so, progress.

Cariad
08-12-2015, 01:59 AM
Lawks! Ten pages of 'discussion'?

So this is where everyone is. I saw the posts about creating this thread but totally missed it. I've been reading the poems, have chosen my three but can't decide an order. I've tried to read them as a reader, not a poet, and read them all aloud to get a good feel for any rhythm. Other than that I've just gone by what hits me, whether it's the whole picture, a turn of phrase or a well-wielded device. Good fun this.

Kylabelle
08-12-2015, 02:23 AM
I haven't heard anyone say "Lawks!" in, like, forever. hahaahha!

Glad you found us.

Magdalen
08-12-2015, 03:18 AM
I'm a bit conflicted, having (no doubt) been influenced by all the chatter in this thread, so I thought to toss a question out there and see what resolves (or leaves a bad stain?).

I'm dithering a bit on how the top 3 poems fit into my notions of space, and dang it, but those notions seem to be shifting - probably due to the oceans of fine poems I've been swimmin' in!!! I've really enjoyed this selection - a buffet of poetry - and the variety of space-i-ness abounds! Did anyone else think some entries were about stranger/unusual/different spaces than expected?

Anyway - I'm pretty much down to nit-picking my choices to see if they stand up, and I'll soon tire of that, and will submit votes soon!!!

Kylabelle
08-12-2015, 03:33 AM
Good question. I did feel some of the poems had less specific focus on space than others -- space of any kind. I hadn't yet thought how that might influence my final cut though. But no, I guess I didn't find any of the concepts of space unexpected or startling -- if that's what you meant?

Magdalen
08-12-2015, 03:47 AM
Good question. I did feel some of the poems had less specific focus on space than others -- space of any kind. I hadn't yet thought how that might influence my final cut though.

Yeah, but it's cool!


But no, I guess I didn't find any of the concepts of space unexpected or startling -- if that's what you meant?

Not the concepts, but some poems gave rise to ideas about inner/outer space that I hadn't much thought about and I found that refreshing, notable, etc. !

William Haskins
08-12-2015, 05:26 AM
i found a nice balance of hard science and metaphysics.

it really is one of the most fascinating features of the collection.

CassandraW
08-12-2015, 05:29 AM
STOP TRYING TO INFLUENCE THE VOTING!!!!!

William Haskins
08-12-2015, 05:30 AM
i found a nice balance of bold color and subtlety.

it really is one of the most fascinating features of the post.

CassandraW
08-12-2015, 05:34 AM
the sad thing is, I knew exactly how that would play out, and yet I did it all the same.

William Haskins
08-12-2015, 05:36 AM
i found a nice balance of self-satisfaction and melancholy.

it really is one of the most interesting features of the reply.

C.bronco
08-12-2015, 05:37 AM
I'm still reading. The one after mine is pretty amazing. I still vote for mine, if I can, because it's different and it's hard to imagine how it will be received.

CassandraW
08-12-2015, 05:37 AM
i found a nice balance of self-satisfaction and melancholy.

it really is one of the most interesting features of the reply.

damn. I was aiming for derisive sneering and limp one-liners.

C.bronco
08-12-2015, 05:39 AM
Who is determining the winners, btw?

Magdalen
08-12-2015, 05:39 AM
the sad thing is, I knew exactly how that would play out, and yet I did it all the same.

How long are ya gonna milk that line, anyway??

CassandraW
08-12-2015, 05:42 AM
How long are ya gonna milk that line, anyway??

until I get tired of it, or until AWers stop giving me opportunities to use it. I suspect the former will come first.

ErezMA
08-12-2015, 05:47 AM
*influences the voting*

CassandraW
08-12-2015, 05:48 AM
keep it up, buddy, and you'll be toast.

C.bronco
08-12-2015, 05:49 AM
Who votes on the winners?

ErezMA
08-12-2015, 05:49 AM
keep it up, buddy, and you'll be toast.

You're just trying to butter me up, aren't you? ;)

Magdalen
08-12-2015, 05:50 AM
Who votes on the winners?

Who Can Vote?



Any member of AW in good standing as of the date of this post and is still in good standing when voting opens.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?308607-Announcing-the-2015-AW-POETRY-CONTEST-SPACE