What do you seek from your poem's critique?

Your poll doesn't allow for multiple choice, William.

Sometimes what I am after when I post for critique is that the poem "works". Sometimes I am struggling and need some direction cause I can't see where the words fit for the poem or the form I am using and I know it is a simple matter that is just eluding me. Being too close to the project I know an objective eye can point out those places I can't "see". There are many reasons, and it changes from poem to poem.

William Haskins said:

...
so for poets posting for critiques, what's in it for you?

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It's always good to know when a poem does or does not work. I especially appreciate it when non-poets comment because it makes me think the work appeals to a broader audience than just other poets.

Right. I mainly want to know if the poem connects. Does it convey what I meant it to or anything close to that? And agree with Mags, when non-poets chime in, it is very helpful.

Secondarily I appreciate suggestions for improvement in areas where the poem fails to connect and convey value.

I'm glad you've started this thread, William - it seems so obvious and necessary, it's a little startling to find it wasn't here earlier.

If I'm completely candid about it, I have to say that validation of talent is right up there. I want to be read and responded to, and I hope to hear that other people enjoy my poems as much as I do.

I read my own poems over and over, and mostly, I'm very happy with them. I like my voice, and I think I've gotten better over the years here. And, I like to be liked.

But I'd much rather find out where I'm swinging and missing in others' eyes. So, here we go.

What I look for in critiques, and what I take from them, aren't necessarily the same.

I look for:

• Impressions: a poem's overall effect, not in magnitude, but in its nature. I like to know whether the intended nuances came through, and whether something else happens that I hadn't foreseen.
• Rough spots: where things stick out enough for a reader to say "this bothered me", or "this didn't work". It could be an idea, a misplaced metric foot, a clumsy adjective, a line break, a misspelling, too much rhyme or rhythm, anything.

I also get:

• Education: In passing, people might mention other poets, other poems, other techniques, history, things I haven't experienced, and I can go after them.
• Critique Technique: If something strikes me particularly well in a crit, I might try to apply it the next time I write one myself. I imagine that this happens a lot.
• Confirmation of my doubts: There's usually a passage or two that I think is not quite what I want. Almost always, someone will pick it up. It reminds me that everything matters, and it gratifies me that people read well enough to notice.
• Listening practice: I'm always impressed by how diverse our viewpoints are, and the things we each pick up. As thorough as I think I am, the next poet or reader always finds things I hadn't noticed at all. That's humbling and exciting.

There's probably more. This is long enough.

The holy grail.

I went with the general assessment thing. I love pats on the back as much as anyone else, and I almost clicked that. But really I just want to know if my poem is reaching anyone, either positively or negatively. Either is fine with me. Flat indifference or total confusion as to what my poem is supposed to be speaks volumes more than any line-by-line crit. Excellent topic William.

I haven't posted a poem in a long time. When I do, it's usually a tentative extension to see if I've, yet again, been incoherent. The poetry I love showcases an interesting way to say something - interesting in rhythm or alliteration or imagery. It's sort of putting language through a bit of a workout. But, for me, my poetry is only fun if someone other than me gets what I was going for. Too often I fall well short of it.

When I post for critique, there's a lot of breath holding.

ETA -

This thread made me look at some poetry I'd written. There's a file from haikus done maybe nine years ago on a thread here at AW. This one made me laugh:

mildly amusing
she of the middling talent
but good attitude

I'm terrible. I have to admit I write poetry for money. About the only non-AW poetry I create now is meant for book arts sculptures. Same with poems merged into paintings on canvas. I'm a lackluster poet on my own, but my writing seems better with art.

Magdalen said:

I especially appreciate it when non-poets comment because it makes me think the work appeals to a broader audience than just other poets.

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Kylabelle said:

And agree with Mags, when non-poets chime in, it is very helpful.

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And just to state the obvious, a good number of non-poets do read poems that are put here. You can tell that by the number of "views." So appreciation of the poems extends beyond the replies they receive. Just something to consider. Kind of a subtle, "good going!"

ps Thnx Maryn, for explaining how to multiquote in that other thread. Very useful !

Ken makes an interesting point. My poems, and I think everyone's generally get a higher view count than comment count... but I think they are independent of each other. I don't think the ticker counts unique visits. So if I revisit the thread to edit my post, re-read what I've written, read comment, post a comment, these will all be counted as 'views'. Most likely the most views will have come from the poet rather than any number of readers. Considering the view count as equating to reader appreciation is a false economy in this sense.

But that wasn't the point of this thread, was it? What I look for when I post... like anyone who puts time and effort into something, I enjoy a pat on the back, I like praise--but I don't post for that. I can get praise and ego stroking from my missus (if I'm nice first ), friends etc if I really need it. I post my poetry, because as a poet I can sometimes be a little blind to the flaws in my work. There are many skilled craftsmen (and women) on this forum, and they all have a different take on things. I like it when what I have written is challenged, or when those flaws are pulled out, where my own concerns are confirmed. Over the years I have become a better poet for this place, and for the input of others. I have been able to share what I know, as well as what I've learnt from being critiqued.

As Filigree posted earlier on, I also write poetry from time to time for money. I need to be the best poet I can be for that to be a reality, and raw talent (if I may be a little less humble :s) will only go so far. Polish is only ever a bad thing when there's so much of it, it becomes a health hazard--crits can tell you this too

Well, praise of course! I want to know the poem is good, if it is connecting with people and doing its job.

But I also want serious feedback from those it doesn't work for. To be told why it isn't working for someone makes editing easier for me as the writer. I get something to mull over and decide whether it is applicable or not, sometimes I get insights I hadn't thought about. Got one of those recently and I'm still trying to figure out whether to take the Splatterpunk feel of the poem and go with it, or to soften it up some when smoothing it out.

i'm probably the odd one out, as i usually write for myself, more than with the intent of being read and/or accepted as a poet by others. i've always written poems, since about eight, think; always was a spontaneous endeavor, just because the moment called for being recorded in a poemy kind of way. at the time, lecture by others brought negative comments, as they apparently couldn't connect the poems to what they knew me as, hence i was occasionally accused of plagiarism, even though the 'original' work remained unnamed.

so then, given my mistrust of critics, why do i post in Poetry Critique? could it be for the sake of the free couch sessions? maybe. it's also interesting to see how others understand (or not) a particular piece. let's face it, not a great many of us will ever see a volume of their poetry in actual print. AW's Poetry Critique is the ideal placebo.

zarada said:

i'm probably the odd one out, as i usually write for myself, more than with the intent of being read and/or accepted as a poet by others.

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You are not alone. I also write poetry primarily for myself and rarely share it.

When I do share it, I am very happy when someone connects with it.

Here's to the Emily Dickinsons among us.

balls--of the testicular variety. --s6

This is why I give so few crits. There's only so much one has to offer.

poetinahat said:

This is why I give so few crits. There's only so much one has to offer.

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I am terrible at critiquing poetry. Come to think of it, I'm not all that great at critiquing prose. I know what I like and I can occasionally articulate how something struck me particularly well. But I don't seem to have much fire to put into words what doesn't work for me. I don't enjoy doing it. It doesn't feel good. And I am lazy when it comes to unpleasant things.

But that's not to say - at all - that people shouldn't negatively critique or that I'm accusing those who do take their time to explain what they don't like about something of enjoying taking strips off people. It rarely seems that way to me. I know, from my own experience, that negative critique can be very valuable. So, I don't discourage it. I just don't have a lot of juice for it myself.

CassandraW said:

You are not alone. I also write poetry primarily for myself and rarely share it.

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This is interesting and I've been thinking about it. I've heard some writers say this for as long as I've been hanging out with writers (virtually or otherwise) and it's one of those things where I understand the sentence, but not the sentiment. And there's no value judgment here. I believe anyone who says that they write for themselves, without the intent to have others read it. There can't be anything wrong with that. I just don't know what it would feel like.

I have lots of elaborate conversations with myself that are just for my own entertainment. Sometimes there are poetic observances that don't ever bloom into an actual poem. I mean, I don't know how it is for everyone else, but I practically have a sidecar life of narration and character play that I will likely never write down. But if I do write it, it's always for other people to see.

If I put it down on paper, or on the screen, and if I can manage to get to The End and not want to burn it with fire, I only ever would go through that to see if, ultimately, it has a pointy enough point to sink into a target.

It's hard for me to imagine what it would feel like to work on it, then put it away.

I like as much help as I can get. When giving comment on others work I like to be brief while at the same time hope to encourage the artist.

Perks said:

It's hard for me to imagine what it would feel like to work on it, then put it away.

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And I've been doing that for years.

I'm not like that with my other writing. Nor am I like that in general, as you will have gathered if you've seen me in action in, say, P&CE, where I'm basically impervious to anything you want to throw at me. But my poems are rarely just an intellectual exercise in craft. They tend to feel very personal to me, and I suppose that is what makes me weird about sharing them. The same emotion that made me write a poem to begin with makes me reluctant to share it.

When I don't share them, I get a certain contentment out of poems that I feel captured exactly what I wanted them to say. I really don't need any participation in that feeling, any more than I need participation to appreciate reading a good poem or book. I suppose this is the introvert in me. Also, I tend to torment myself getting every word in my poems to say what I want it to say, so getting to that peaceful feeling at the end is important to me.

When I do share them, I admit I get real joy out of comments that indicate someone connected with what I wrote. That includes criticism and suggestions that shows the reader connected with at least some aspect of the work. Yes, it feels better than putting them in a drawer. Yes, it feels like they get some extra life.

But alas, I also get a letdown when I feel that people don't get it. And though I've tried to get over it, so far I can't get past feeling a bit anxious whenever I share something, and so even when I get a good reaction, I still have that anxious period beforehand.

Basically, I roll the dice and hold my breath whenever I venture to share something. And much of the time, I choose sticking with the peaceful "Yes, I think I've got it at last." It's pathetic, I know.

CassandraW said:

But alas, I also get a letdown when I feel that people don't get it.

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Oh lordy, CassW, welcome to my world. Lol!

Actually, since I only write poetry and prose for launching, I think you've rather hit it on all points as to why I'm inhibited to write poetry. Too often, I've not been able to be clear - and I hate that feeling. So, I don't do it. And that's nothing to be proud of.

Thank you for that thoughtful explanation. I do see what you mean.

Whereas I'm not inhibited from writing it -- I just tend to put it in a box. However, since joining this forum, I've at least been typing it into my computer and keeping it in a somewhat more organized fashion.* I've even begun the process of doing that with some of the old stuff in the box.



*derail/

I often write poetry on paper. I think through my fingers. I find that my initial struggling words simply look stupid on the screen, and I want to delete them and forget the whole thing. When they're on paper, I just strike them out and move along until I get where I want to go. So I end up with a big pile of scribbles, but the end product that goes on the screen does not make me cringe. (Much of my stuff has never made it to a screen at all, which is why it exists only in a box.) Again, I'm not usually like this on prose, though I sometimes am when I'm working with a particularly difficult passage. And in all cases, I must read it on paper in order to assess it -- things jump out at me that I miss on the screen.

Anyone else like this or am I, as I suspect, a throwback freak? Though I suppose most writers are freaks in some way or another.

/end derail