What do you with Beta Readers who have different opinions?

Booklover199 · Jul 10, 2015

I've had a lot of people reading my work. I thought I was finally in the right direction because all of my beta readers said it was good. But I just posted the first 1/3 of my first chapter on website and everyone was hating it. I like to build my stories up, and establish characters and settings but these people insisted I scrap all that and get right into it. My other beta readers thought it was fine and liked the start so I am so confused.

I really don't know what direction to go in. I want everyone to like it, but I am quickly learning that seems almost impossible.

Maryn · Jul 10, 2015

What I do is take a giant step back. I try to see the work as the beta reader sees it. I consider that person's reading tastes, if I know them, as well as how widely read they are in my genre. If I'm writing a western and the guy who reads them a lot says I'm good but the romance reader wants way more smooching, guess who I'm going to allow to influence me.

In the end, of course, you can only weigh different opinions and do what you think is best for the work, in your own opinion.

It sounds to me like the readers of the first third wanted more plot earlier. Is that possible?

Maryn, who might well side with them

greendragon · Jul 10, 2015

Beta readers are volunteers - their opinions matter, but are not written in stone. As Maryn says, you must take into account from what background they come, their demographics, tastes, etc. And it may be that you've started your story at the wrong spot. I've done that twice in my first two novels. But when someone pointed it out to me, I realized they were right (though I fought it on the first one, a lot!). Sometimes the beta reader is right, sometimes they are not. You, as the writer, must decide in the end which feels best for your tale.

dda27101 · Jul 10, 2015

Not every reader’s qualified to be a beta, and not every beta is professional, nor do they understand every genre. The agents specialize in certain genres, and so do editors and publishers. You must find someone experienced in what you’re writing.

shadowwalker · Jul 10, 2015

dda27101 said:
Not every reader’s qualified to be a beta, and not every beta is professional, nor do they understand every genre. The agents specialize in certain genres, and so do editors and publishers. You must find someone experienced in what you’re writing.

I don't really know what you mean by "qualified". They should be familiar with the genre, yes, but I've gotten as insightful responses from "mere readers" as I have from other writers.

To the OP - go with what seems right to you. Look at who your first group was and who the second group was, to see what biases might be present.

Usher · Jul 10, 2015

Every view point is valid but it's my work. I get the final say and I appreciate my book won't be perfect.

Not everything a beta reader asks for is within my ability or possible with the parameters of the story. However, I do take more suggestions on than I reject.

RKarina · Jul 10, 2015

I've had betas strongly dislike aspects of my plot - sometimes they had a point, sometimes they didn't.

If you know your betas, weigh their opinions against what you know of them as well as what you feel to be right for your story.

If you don't know them, all you can do is look at the numbers and ask how representative you feel they are of your overall audience. Then weight that against what you feel...yeah.

When betas disagree strongly, all you can do is take a big step back, look at every opinion, weigh it appropriately, and take a fresh look at your work with those things in mind. Tweak where you can or need to, and leave the rest.

I'm also rather fond of the saying: too many cooks spoil the broth. Sometimes, the considered thoughts of a few are better than the wholesale thoughts of the many.

Corsairs · Jul 10, 2015

RKarina said:
I'm also rather fond of the saying: too many cooks spoil the broth. Sometimes, the considered thoughts of a few are better than the wholesale thoughts of the many.

That's good advice right there. Just as with anything in life, some people are going to put more of themselves into a job than others. It's incumbent on you to gauge whether a given beta reader is providing useful, considered, actionable advice.

Having said that, I personally wouldn't discount a thoughtful beta reader simply because he/she doesn't usually read my genre of choice (fantasy). The way I see it, a good story should be enjoyable to anyone. If a good beta who is unfamiliar with fantasy is stumbling over my work, that just tells me that I'm perhaps being a little too trope-y, and maybe it's time to simplify a bit.

Maryn · Jul 10, 2015

That's also good advice. We want our books to be accessible to the reader who's never read our genre before. A person who's read a bazillion fantasy (or western, or romance, or UF) titles may have certain expectations and make certain assumptions the newcomer won't. We have to make it right for all readers.

Maryn, giving us a tall order

sohalt · Jul 11, 2015

It's rarely possible to please every one. In terms of marketing, it's often better to go for a well-defined target demographic instead of the lowest common denominator. What's your platonic ideal of your target reader? Priortize the opinions of those who come closer to it. To gain a better idea of what kind of readers those people are, look at what other kind of books they like or dislike.

phantasy · Jul 11, 2015

What I think is a good idea is to keep every crit in mind as you continue to edit. Some will be wildly ineffectual, but most crits have some credence to them. Usually I have to think about the crit for a few days, sometimes a few weeks. Then as you edit you might find places where you can change things according to crits.

Sometimes it helps to go back to your cheerleaders and tell them that another beta reader said this and that about your book, do they agree. Sometimes they might. Sometimes they weren't paying attention to your ms and then it's by jove that other crit might have something there.

I def take the words of more experienced writers more seriously. Those aren't always the easiest to find, though.

kimberleyjksn · Jul 11, 2015

I once read an article which suggested a 2 person rule. If your beta gives criticism that you can see and agree with, then that makes 2 people (beta + you), ergo make the change. If you don't agree with it, see if another person points out the exact same thing. If so, then you have 2 (or more) people again and that means you should at least go back and re-evaluate if there's something wrong.

I always treat beta reader's (and editor's) criticism as an opinion. And I never make changes on the day that I receive it, because I am known for overcompensating, and in the past I have actually messed stories up by too eagerly following beta/editor advice without thinking about it. So I let it sit for a few days and then go back when I have stomached potential criticism and can look at it objectively. Then I apply the 2-person rule.

WriteMinded · Jul 12, 2015

Booklover199 said:
I've had a lot of people reading my work. I thought I was finally in the right direction because all of my beta readers said it was good. But I just posted the first 1/3 of my first chapter on website and everyone was hating it. I like to build my stories up, and establish characters and settings but these people insisted I scrap all that and get right into it. My other beta readers thought it was fine and liked the start so I am so confused.

I really don't know what direction to go in. I want everyone to like it, but I am quickly learning that seems almost impossible.

First off, how many is a lot? Already it sounds like too many to me. A bunch of people saying it's good, does not sound helpful at all. Where did you post that piece of your first chapter, here? Nobody on AW would say they hated it. They would give you ideas on how to improve it. That is why we ask for a betas.

RKarina said:
I've had betas strongly dislike aspects of my plot - sometimes they had a point, sometimes they didn't.

If you know your betas, weigh their opinions against what you know of them as well as what you feel to be right for your story.

If you don't know them, all you can do is look at the numbers and ask how representative you feel they are of your overall audience. Then weight that against what you feel...yeah.

When betas disagree strongly, all you can do is take a big step back, look at every opinion, weigh it appropriately, and take a fresh look at your work with those things in mind. Tweak where you can or need to, and leave the rest.

I'm also rather fond of the saying: too many cooks spoil the broth. Sometimes, the considered thoughts of a few are better than the wholesale thoughts of the many.

Absolutely agree with RKarina, especially that last bit about too many cooks.

Usher · Jul 12, 2015

I had about 30+ teens read and comment on my first book. It was incredibly useful. In some ways it was better to have more because it taught me what they didn't really care about.

Booklover199 · Jul 20, 2015

Good advice everyone! Thanks!

I just showed my first opening to 5 people and they really like it, but then I showed it to another 3 and they didn't get it and thought it was too slow. I don't know who I should listen to. I guess I'll have to go with my own instincts.

tethomic · Jul 21, 2015

You will never be able to please everybody.
Other people can give you their opinion. But in the end you know what you like and if you accept their critic or still choose to go an other way.

T M Grout · Jul 23, 2015

Hey Booklover199, one thing I have learned is that you have to have confidence in what your write no matter what others say. I'm sure Stephen King was called a hack for years etc but he really loved what he was doing and he stuck to it. I think it's important to have people read your stuff but at the end of the day it is your stuff. You make the call. If it's nagging at you and you can see the importance of taking a suggestion then take it, but if it doesn't resonate with you just stick with what feels right. You will find your audience. You are the creator. Maybe you have a different style and that's fine. Personally I wouldn't ask for too many people to read my stuff before I consider it finished because it could get very confusing with so many opinions. My rule of thumb though is that if more than one person has an issue with the same thing then I will consider changing it. If one person has a problem with it and another enjoyed it I won't change it if I like it. I try tot stick to what I have written as much as possible and learn and move on. Hope that helps.

Chanda · Jul 23, 2015

T M Grout said:
Hey Booklover199, one thing I have learned is that you have to have confidence in what your write no matter what others say. I'm sure Stephen King was called a hack for years etc but he really loved what he was doing and he stuck to it. I think it's important to have people read your stuff but at the end of the day it is your stuff. You make the call. If it's nagging at you and you can see the importance of taking a suggestion then take it, but if it doesn't resonate with you just stick with what feels right. You will find your audience. You are the creator. Maybe you have a different style and that's fine. Personally I wouldn't ask for too many people to read my stuff before I consider it finished because it could get very confusing with so many opinions. My rule of thumb though is that if more than one person has an issue with the same thing then I will consider changing it. If one person has a problem with it and another enjoyed it I won't change it if I like it. I try tot stick to what I have written as much as possible and learn and move on. Hope that helps.

This ^ I always like to have several readers in my target audience read a manuscript, then make a list of the most common areas they think I could improve on, and then see if I agree to make those changes. Often times, after that, I'll send it through another round to see if the changes I made are consistent with what I wanted and fixed the problems I was facing.

What do you with Beta Readers who have different opinions?

Booklover199

Maryn

Baaa!

greendragon

dda27101

shadowwalker

empty-nester!

Usher

RKarina

Corsairs

Saying it twice for truth

Maryn

Baaa!

sohalt

phantasy

I write weird stories.

kimberleyjksn

WriteMinded

Derailed

Usher

Booklover199

tethomic

T M Grout

Chanda