The writing Lab scares me!

I know how you feel. I tend to get really anxious looking at some threads, and I'm not even the person who started them!

But I read them anyway, for a couple reasons:
a. Most of them end up pretty civil and are actually helpful to the person who's work is being critted and
b. This way I can get a feel for people's critting style, so that if/when it's my turn I can be prepared for crits that I'd otherwise find too harsh. Or even which crits to ignore or not take too seriously.

If you want to use the lab, it helps a lot to read a lot of threads. It's like living next to a house that has a big, scary dog -- it's big and scary, but after the two hundredth time you walk past it you might have even forgotten that it's there.

I always got for the most part great constructive comments when I posted in there in the past. You don't have to take every bit of advice given either, but most of the feedback that I did get was useful. Having a thick skin helps. As a writer if you choose to put anything out there you will need that anyway. Good luck!

In my experience, most people try to be genuinely helpful, not harsh for the sake of looking tough. Occasionally, you may run into someone who does give needlessly harsh critiques, but you can choose to disregard them. And if someone says something that you feel crosses the line into nastiness, you can report it to a moderator.

But really, most people want to be helpful and encouraging. I think when many people talk about being "harsh, " they really mean being honest (but not rude) about any problems they perceive. For some writers, especially beginners, any negative feedback can feel very harsh.

One thing a lot of people don't realize is that once you're there for a while, you start to suss out the personalities of the regular critters. And something that seemed harsh before you knew them becomes funny and without bite once you get to know their critting style a little.

If you're interested, I'd encourage you to hang out there and crit -- that's the best way to get your feet wet before posting something of your own. And you can always ask for gentle hands when you post -- the harsher critters tend to know they're harsher and are respectful about passing by the folk who express a desire for gentleness, and it's all fine.

slhuang said:

One thing a lot of people don't realize is that once you're there for a while, you start to suss out the personalities of the regular critters. And something that seemed harsh before you knew them becomes funny and without bite once you get to know their critting style a little.

If you're interested, I'd encourage you to hang out there and crit -- that's the best way to get your feet wet before posting something of your own. And you can always ask for gentle hands when you post -- the harsher critters tend to know they're harsher and are respectful about passing by the folk who express a desire for gentleness, and it's all fine.

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That's exactly the path I'm taking. I'm a newbie around these parts, and it seems to me that the best way to integrate myself is to start offering some simple critiques of my own. I've already started, but first I looked through old threads to get a feel for how people critique (there's a myriad of styles - not just "harsh" or "gentle" but also the technical ways they communicate needed changes). That gave me the confidence I needed to post my first few crits.

And it's worth noting that the authors who placed their work up for judgment are, in my experience, very good about handling critiques gracefully. Just today, I got a very nice comment back from someone whose work I critiqued. I see that and look at it as a template to use when it comes my turn to submit my work for judgment. Yes, that will be a little scary, but clearly others can handle it and I'm sure I can, too.

And if there are ever any posts you feel are uncalled for or questionable, click on the little icon beneath your avatar, the one that looks like a triangle with an exclamation point on it. This will alert the room mods and they'll take a look at the situation. They don't respond once action, if any, is taken but rest assured a real live hoomin bean will look at it and do something, if necessary.

I've seen them chanting "All hail skynet." Really.

"... your cards ain't worth a dime if you don't lay them down." --G. Dead

I can't say that I've seen more than one or two truly mean-spirited critiques here during my (admittedly limited) tenure. I have seen crits that were quite blunt, but only very rarely is it that someone will come along and tell you that you have a big nose and a bad personality, and by the way, your mother dresses you funny. I do a lot of work as a beta reader and critter for writers I've met here, and my style is upfront and blunt. Critique takes a significant amount of time, and I work under the assumption that nobody would ask me to make that sort of time commitment if they did not want to improve their work.

A good critique, of course, is a balanced critique -- it's not just useful to know what you've done wrong, it's useful to know what you've done right. But a thick skin is a valuable thing to have, and as a beta reader, I expect my writers to be able to tell the difference between mean-spiritedness and bluntness. If I see something in your writing that doesn't have the effect you're going for, the kindest thing for a beta to do is to tell you in plain language. Clear communication is a beautiful thing.

If I put my writing out there -- I want reactions from it! And yes, of course I want people to fawn over me and tell me how wonderful I am. But the truth is, occasionally (only very occasionally, mind) I am not actually wonderful. And I want to know this right away, while I can address the issues. It's not enough for me to write. I want to write well. And writing well requires being open to criticism, even though it is occasionally painful, even if it is occasionally unhelpful, even if it is occasionally mean-spirited.

UnluckyClover77 said:

An earlier discussion on the writer's block forum gave me the impression that some people around here think it's okay to give inappropriately mean comments to newbie authors because they're "helping" them, and that the authors being criticized tend to lash out like five year-olds because we can't see their "genius"

Now I'm too scared to go there! And by going there I mean posting anything there. I'm such a pansy, I know.

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You know what? Even if you do get a mean comment or two, that's okay. It will thicken up your skin. Teach you to not overreact to every little thing people say. Published authors often receive public criticism, in the form of reviews and blog posts. But a published author can't afford to react to every negative thing they encounter. They must keep their head level, and not become one of those authors who go off the deep end over a review. Nor can they afford to get so bummed out, they quit writing.

So, think of it as practice. It will make you a better writer. Because one of the most important aspects of being a writer (after writing), is having thick skin. The thick-skinned writer will always prevail over a more talented thin-skinned writer. The thick-skinned writer is more likely to submit to evaluation to improve their work. But also, the thick-skinned writer is more likely to have a long and happy writing career.

Hope this helps.

OP, I'm not sure your post is in response to "bluntness" or "meanness." If it is bluntness that scares you, you do need need to grow a thicker skin, and the best way to grow a thicker skin is to get more blunt responses. It will toughen you up. really. Now, if it is meanness... I'm not going to sugar coat anything here. Some people are just miserable people, and lashing out seems to be the only way they can feel good with themselves. For these people? Ignore button is a wonderful thing. It keeps your blood pressure down and life productive. You read some posts and get a feel, and go from there.

I use Share Your Work when I want honest crits, knowing that they will be harsh. It's not a comfy place on AW, but it is useful. I'd rather have my work shredded by AW members here than by my agent or editors.

I think it's important to remember, too, that not everyone means the same thing by "harsh" (and our definitions are largely shaped by our experiences).

Some people see "I find your MC really unlikable" as harsh. Some writers have thin skin and react strongly to feedback like that, and consequently some critiquers come to see their own style as harsh because they're honest.

I have pretty thick skin and like honesty. I see "harsh" as being rude or mean-spirited. The person (not on here!) who made fun of me as a writer and said that I "obviously" hadn't made an effort (I was depressed and trying to get back into writing after getting out of the habit) was harsh. That type of behavior would not be accepted here, I don't think, because we have a rule about respecting fellow writers. Another example of "harsh" would be my friend who agreed to give me feedback on my first ever erotica story, and told me point blank that it was horrible and read like a bad stereotype. I was cool with this because we were friends and I was comfortable with her bluntness. I think most people here are more careful with their delivery when dealing with people they may not know well.

I have yet to post anything in the writing lab section because I am unsure where to even begin. The SYW Erotica section doesn't seem to get a lot of writers looking for critique, unless I'm not looking at it right, and I am not sure if I should even bother posting previous NaNoWriMo work, even though I totally plan on re-writing it. I guess you have to know what you're using it for. And I guess I don't know that quite yet.

On the angle of being critiqued, I would rather someone be brutally honest with me than have someone coddle me and pat me on the back while gagging behind it. Even if it means my work gets shredded. You have to know yourself enough to look between the lines and take the good advice while keeping in mind the negative advice is also helpful.

I was in no way denying the validity of the section itself, I hope that wasn't read as such. I am still a newbie and do not want to do things the wrong way, so in checking the section I noticed not a lot of critique threads, but a lot of practice ones. Which is awesome, and understandable. Was just an observation and my reasons why I haven't taken part in the section.

Ana, still learning to express herself properly.

I'll confess that I was anxious about the SYW areas too, at first. Heck, when I first joined AW? I was not at all sure I wanted to show up as anything but a lurker. This place is big, and it's full of many different kinds of characters, and there are lots of people here who know a hell of a lot more than I do and may not care at all about whether they hurt my feelings.

Once I got used to that though, I ventured pretty much everywhere, well, everywhere I had interest. Initially in SYW I posted in the Poetry area because that's where I am most active in my writing, and even there I was nervous about the kind of reception I might find. I did offer a critique first, and several times I believe, before posting anything of my own. But Poetry is not like the rest of SYW so it isn't a really good example.

The thing about the thick skin is really true. One needs to develop that. At this point I am not really phased by much anyone has to say about my writing, and I can take in good critique without having it affect my mood at all. I have learned to distinguish between what's really helpful and the comments I can just say "thanks" and move on from, but that takes some practice.

As Sophia said to the OP, no one is making you go there. But if you familiarize yourself with the place, and then give it a try, I expect you'll find it's both bearable and helpful and maybe even enjoyable.

Also, the erotica SYW board might be a little slower since some of us are pretty segregated by subgenre. I mostly read and write LGBT and LGBT BDSM erotica. I'm happy to try to give feedback on M/F stuff, but since if usually doesn't appeal to me, that can be tough.

anastasiareeves said:

I was in no way denying the validity of the section itself, I hope that wasn't read as such. I am still a newbie and do not want to do things the wrong way, so in checking the section I noticed not a lot of critique threads, but a lot of practice ones. Which is awesome, and understandable. Was just an observation and my reasons why I haven't taken part in the section.

Ana, still learning to express herself properly.

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You didn't say anything wrong. I think Maryn was just trying to offer some insight. There's plenty of romance and erotica authors around AbsoluteWrite, but yeah, the SYW section is very quiet. Sex scenes are really subjective, and because of that, they're hard to critique.

Like Maryn said, some of us make personal arrangements behind the scenes. It's not like we're a conglomerate that all critiques for each other. Sometimes I talk about my writing in the Blue Light District, and a couple people have offered to read for me before because I piqued their interest. Sometimes other people mention they need help, and I latch on (much like a stealthy leech).

Some unsolicited advice: become pals with people. Try keeping an eye out for authors who write similar subjects. If someone mentions they need help with something, don't be afraid to volunteer. And if you're looking for critique, don't be afraid to mention it -- it won't guarantee you a beta read, but it's like baiting a line.

As far as first pages go... Dear Author has a feature where you can submit the first 500 words of your unpublished manuscript. They post about one first page a week. The critique there is more general, and it gets you 6-10 opinions from 6-10 different romance authors. It's been extremely helpful to me, personally, in the past.

As far as sex scenes go: I have no idea, good luck.

DancingMaenid said:

Also, the erotica SYW board might be a little slower since some of us are pretty segregated by subgenre. I mostly read and write LGBT and LGBT BDSM erotica. I'm happy to try to give feedback on M/F stuff, but since if usually doesn't appeal to me, that can be tough.

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This, exactly.

Most sex scenes don't work for me. I can tell if a scene is well-written; I can't tell if it's hot.