My new request for a mentor

Celia Cyanide · Apr 10, 2006

I went over a few things with Katiemac (thank you so much!) and I think I now have a better idea of what I need from a mentor. I appreciate all of you who responded to my thread with advice. I wrote down all of your suggestions.

I am interested in writing a novel. I have had a few false starts because I realized that the ideas I had, even though they were interesting to me, would never work. I have always been writing for myself, and cannot get used to writing for an audience.

I would like a mentor to help me by talking with me about my ideas. I would like advice on developing my ideas and turning them into something workable for a novel. If my ideas won't work, I would like to know, and the reasons why. I do not need anyone to read my manuscript as I go.

I am not writing genre fiction, perhaps mainstream/contemporary or literary.

If you have any further questions, let me know. Thanks.

rich · Apr 10, 2006

Sorry to say this, Celia, but you're not asking for advice; you're suckling. Get hold of yourself and decide what you want to do.

sunandshadow · Apr 10, 2006

rich said:
Sorry to say this, Celia, but you're not asking for advice; you're suckling. Get hold of yourself and decide what you want to do.

I think that was a very offensive thing to say. Different writers need help with different areas, and I hate this attitude which says only some areas are acceptable to ask for help with, others are 'cheating'. Your post is phrased like you assume everyone in the world will agree with you, and that's not true at all.

Consider me - my weakest area of writing is plot. I knew who my characters were and what themes I wanted to discuss, but needed help creating a plot outline for my novel. I had a terrible experience with one writing group where the group leader considered asking for any help before writing the first draft 'cheating', refused to comment on my outline hand-out, and discouraged everyone else from commenting on it or discussing it with me.

Fortunately I moved and joined another writing group, where I asked timorously if I could hand out a tentative plot outline for critique because that was what I needed help with, and they said Sure! Everyone was much nicer and gave me lots of helpful comments on my proposed plot outline - there was one guy who objected to the homosexual content, but at least he kept his opinions mostly to himself and didn't try to discourage the other group members from helping.

Celia - you really should specify a genre, because most mentors are only qualified to mentor one or two genres. If you wanted to write science fiction and/or fantasy romance I'd be happy to discuss ideas with you, but I don't know a darn thing about action, horror, mystery, etc.

Writer2011 · Apr 10, 2006

I would have to agree that comment made by rich was VERY offensive...Writers are always tossing around ideas...some can do it better than others. Give the person a break.

rich · Apr 10, 2006

Can't agree with you there, sunandshadow. As much as I like helping writers, I don't do social work. If writers need help writing, I'm happy to help. If they need other help, they shouldn't put it in the same realm as writing.

Cheryl??? I welcome your negative rep point--would that more here follow the same pattern. But I got over 2000 points as a result of my kidnapping Jenna's husband until she relinquished 2000 points to me. So, let's all stay in the real world.

MacAllister · Apr 10, 2006

Ease up, everyone. Rich is quite obviously not the mentor for Celia--unless, like I often do, what she needs is a swift kick to put herself in the chair and concentrate.

Regardless, she may or may not find value in his observation that she needs to just take the thing by the horns. That's up to her.

Celia Cyanide · Apr 10, 2006

I don't mean to turn this into an arguement, but I sincerely can't understand what is wrong with my request for a mentor, and why it is any more "social work" than anyone else's. If you need me to clarify something let me know. If you just don't want to help me, then don't. I understand. I'm hoping to find another person who will.

MacAllister · Apr 10, 2006

There's absolutely nothing wrong with your request, Celia. I honestly think Rich is trying to help, too, though.

rich · Apr 10, 2006

Help ain't always what you think it is.

Writer2011 · Apr 10, 2006

What do you need help with Celia?

Celia Cyanide · Apr 10, 2006

rich said:
Help ain't always what you think it is.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying, rich. If I shouldn't be asking for a mentor, what should I be doing?

rich · Apr 10, 2006

Truly, I don't know.

motormouth · Apr 10, 2006

I'm not sure how someone can tell you if an idea will work without reading your manuscript as you go. On the other hand, what I know about writing is minimal, it's just that I think it would be difficult for anyone to tell if an idea is good - and if you look at some of my favourite novels, the basic idea behind some of them is actually pretty boring.

I hesitate to interpret another person's posts, but I think Rich is saying that you should just write. I agree with Rich because I don't think anyone else can tell you if an idea will work unless they know your writing very well.

Something that has helped me is actually writing for an audience. Why not post some of your work in Share your work?

Another thing that has helped me is the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread. I took a lot from it, even though I don't write novels.

Celia Cyanide · Apr 10, 2006

motormouth said:
I'm not sure how someone can tell you if an idea will work without reading your manuscript as you go.

I would be willing to do that, if I thought it would help. I just thought it would be easier to find someone who was interested in talking through an idea with me, instead of actually reading the whole thing. If the person wants to, I'm all for it. A novel is just a lot to commit to reading.

motormouth said:
On the other hand, what I know about writing is minimal, it's just that I think it would be difficult for anyone to tell if an idea is good - and if you look at some of my favourite novels, the basic idea behind some of them is actually pretty boring.

I think you are very right about that. However, I also feel that there are some ideas that just won't work. I liked the idea for the novel that I started writing. I still like it. But I see now that it won't work as a novel. Just because you write well and you like an idea doesn't mean it will work. I think that people with more experience than me can probably see things like that better than I can.

motormouth said:
I hesitate to interpret another person's posts, but I think Rich is saying that you should just write.

If that were all he was saying, I doubt anyone in this forum would have found it offensive. Among other things, he implied that I needed "other help" outside of writing, which is personal, and, I felt, a bit rude to say about someone you don't know.

If he has advice about writing, I'd be happy to hear it. He's made it clear that he has no advice for me, and I'm fine with that, too.

It is true that I should just write. However, I have written a lot in the past, and I'm starting to learn about what is getting me stuck.

motormouth said:
Something that has helped me is actually writing for an audience. Why not post some of your work in Share your work?

Yes, that is a very good idea. I did that recently, and it helped a lot, as far as being able to see what made something interesting to other people. It's hard to tell, especially with what I was writing, which was a story about my life. Everything that happens to me sounds equally interesting and boring, and I have a hard time deciding what I could use. I've posted pieces of the novel in SYW. I got some very good feedback. One thing I noticed is that even people who hated my idea seemed to think the prose was pretty well written. So this has lead me to believe that my ideas are really where I need help.

brokenfingers · Apr 10, 2006

I think I understand what you're saying Celia but what I think you need is a writing partner. Someone for you to bounce ideas off of and talk about your work with as well as talk about theirs and listen to their ideas.

Mentor denotes a sort of tutorship or apprenticeship - where a senior or more advanced someone stewards you through the writing process, guiding you in your efforts.

Anyways, I happened to luck into a writing partner and it was the best thing to ever happen to me. We both write to prompts that she chooses and we trade work with each other as well as offer input etc. on whetever we exchange.

It has really invigorated my writing and the prompts etc. have helped me discover weak points in my writing style.

I also find that I am now more productive because I know there is someone waiting on the other side for my work.

And the benefits of having another perspective on your writing cannot be overstated.

Writing is a very solitary craft, but I don't write for me - I write for others. So having a writing partner has really helped me out immensely, for many reasons.

rich · Apr 10, 2006

I do have some advice about writing.

Write.

Don't share ideas about what you're about to write.

Just write.

Celia Cyanide · Apr 10, 2006

Thanks for your input. If this is unclear, I am working on something right now. Just writing without help hasn't gotten me anywhere yet, so I'm going to try something new.

rich · Apr 10, 2006

From your posts I think you're limiting yourself to novels. Ever try some short stuff?

three seven · Apr 10, 2006

You know, different people write in different ways, and they need help in different ways too. Celia's request was clear, simple and valid and if you have nothing to contribute but that it doesn't tally with your idea of what an aspiring writer should need or want, feel free to keep it to yourself.

rich · Apr 10, 2006

Three seven, it's difficult to hear you over that inane graphic, but I'll do my best.

Writing is writing. There's no philosophy to it; nor is there, really, a different way of writing. You can write about the way a cockroach crawls up a wall, or how a rhino can put a horn up your ***. But the bottom line is the writing, the ability to convince a reader that he/she was there. No philsophy.

Don't tell me to keep it to myself. This is a writing board--not a place for somebody who can't push off the starting block.

three seven · Apr 10, 2006

If you'd like to rearrange that jumble of words into an intelligible statement, and preferably one that answers a question I did ask, I'll feel far more comfortable correcting you. As it is, it'd be like drowning a kitten.

Chacounne · Apr 10, 2006

Rich, remember the prime rule of this board: Respect your fellow writer, no matter where they are in their journey.

Sadly,
Chac

rich · Apr 10, 2006

Hell, I'm a writer. I'll stand by every word, typo or otherwise.

If you don't follow it, try turning down your cyberneon. It may clear some things up.

three seven · Apr 10, 2006

It's ok, your ego provides ample shade.

rich · Apr 10, 2006

Chacounne, my words might be a bit direct. Understand the props of some others may be a bit more politically correct, but just as disrespectful. Cutting to the chase is my way.

If you want to caution somebody, get that guy with the Time Square graphics.

My new request for a mentor

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie

rich

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Writer2011

rich

MacAllister

'Twas but a dream of thee

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie

MacAllister

'Twas but a dream of thee

rich

Writer2011

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie

rich

motormouth

Celia Cyanide

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brokenfingers

Walkin' That Road

rich

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie

rich

three seven

(Graeme Cameron)

rich

three seven

(Graeme Cameron)

Chacounne

rich

three seven

(Graeme Cameron)

rich