thirst for power

I have no sympathy for them. Freaking commit suicide because you can't take a test? How about being an adult and facing the problem? Better yet, don't cheat?

Then they shouldn't go to that school if they can't handle it. I'm sure they knew its reputation before entering. There are plenty of kids who ARE able to handle it. Or else they'd have a 100% suicide rate. I don't know about where you are, but in the US kids are officially adults when they are 18. Sure, the majority of them are still immature at that age, but it's not an unreasonable thing to expect, for them to handle some responsibility by that age, especially for their actions.

They need not choose a college with those rules. And i'm with chompers on "don't cheat." A school should not condone cheating under any circumstances. The consequences the school imposed seem perfectly reasonable to me.

If it were a children's boarding school modeled after the orphanage in Jane Eyre (e.g., half-starving and freezing the children, administering humiliating punishments for "faults" they could not help, etc.), it would be another thing.

These rules are certainly stricter than those of most colleges, but college students are perfectly free to choose other schools. Generations of students managed to survive without cell phones. Frankly, I wish they'd ban the damn things in more places.

At nineteen, my mother was married. Both her sisters had children at that age. I was working my way through college. I know we currently have a tendency to infantilize people until they are 30 and beyond; I personally find it ridiculous.

jaus tail said:

i think it's too strict. the fact that the college is indifferent to suicide makes it sound like some military camp. scary.

Click to expand...

For this generation, I think it sound perfect. Too many of them whine that things are too hard, that they need mommy holding their hands.

It's time for them to learn the REAL world. HARD work gets you what you deserve.

I'd be quite surprised if the rules were not in a brochure or on the website. Have you checked?

*rushes in*






i thought for sure this thread was going to be about me.






*sigh*





aaaaanyway, maybe it is too strict, maybe not.
it's not a prison. bottom line is that that the students can a) deal with it or b) not.

I'd rather have a child who thinks independently, makes his own decisions, and abides by the consequences of his actions, rather than expecting a free pass for things he knows perfectly well are wrong. Like cheating, for example. And if he makes mistakes, takes the consequences, and moves on from there.

The student who committed suicide may have needed mental help; if so, a tragedy he/she did not seek it out, and that parents and friends didn't see it. But it does not mean the school should have condoned cheating.

If your friend was able to tell you all these rules, then she is obviously aware of them.

Therefore, if a student can't follow them, they need to choose a different school.

It's an important lesson for young people to learn. They have choices, but those choices don't always mean getting everything you want. You have to weigh the pros and cons, make a choice and live with the consequences.

I think at some point, humans need to learn that life doesn't generally offer rewinds. IMO, college does not seem too soon. I'd argue for sooner.

It's one thing if your mother dies or you get extremely sick and need grace time before an exam. But if you haven't learned by college that cheating is wrong and carries consequences, it's damn sure time you learn before you carry your ways out into the work world.

Do they pay the family, friends, staff students and social media not to report it either. No wonder the fees are so high.

It must be a well regarded institution to pay so much to be treated like a grounded child. Not for me, college is late nights of booze and sex or I want my money back.

As for cheating, you choice is don't do it or don't get caught, but there's no excuse and no redemption. If you felt cheating was the your best chance of getting a qualification then you're not up to the test anyway. If you cheat you go. No exceptions.

And to be honest, I don't see why an institution would cover a suicide of a cheat. It's free publicity and showcases the high standard of those who do graduate.

jaus tail said:

There was another intern/student from another college, who's friend had come from another college and the friend didn't attend any lecture. Had an attendance of 0% and wasn't allowed to sit for the exam. I guess this is all right, since he hadn't really attended college. Might as well study from home.

But for the first case, I guess the college could've asked the student to submit extra projects/not allowed to give that particular paper. The college could've given the student an opportunity to redeem himself/herself by studying for an extra paper, or by giving a really hard paper. Or ask the kid to make a presentation on frauds and scams and cheats. The student wouldn't have to repeat a year, since a year's education in that college cost 8 lakh rupees, that would be around 20k dollars. And it's a two-year course.

I agree that the kid's at fault for cheating but the intern said: suicides happen every year. And when I asked: why isn't it reported by the news, she said: the college pays money to the hospital authorities and media. Kids aren't really allowed to talk about it.

I think the rules are too harsh. But it's just my opinion.

Click to expand...

What Cassandra said. It's a college student. I'm pretty sure they already knew cheating was wrong. Why do they get another chance? And the guy with the poor attendance doesn't? He didn't cheat. Why does the liar get another chance? It would show that it was okay to cheat if they got another chance. If they didn't want to waste all that money, they shouldn't have cheated. If they were having trouble with the course, either A) they should consider another field, or B) get tutoring.

I went to a school that cost more than $25k a year (back then). I was there for five years (in the US a Bachelor's degree is on average 4-5 years). Granted, I got full tuition covered by the school, so my situation was a little different, but that's beside the point (and I worked to get that!). The point is lots of students had to pay the full amount, but they didn't resort to cheating. Why should some cheat get a little slap on the wrist when there are others who are putting in the work and are paying the same amount?

The problem with these generations now is they always want to excuse any wrong they've done, or blame it on someone else, instead of taking responsibility for their actions. This comic sums it up pretty well: https://plus.google.com/108516484863809927089/posts/ZqbSDfQCmGG

Again, if they didn't like the rules of the school, they could have left. There was really no other option than to commit suicide? It's not the only school available. At the school I attended, cheating could get you expelled. At least that girl had the opportunity to retake the class.

ETA: Just looked it up. The cost of attendance at my alma mater is now $40k a year.

jaus tail said:

There was another intern/student from another college, who's friend had come from another college and the friend didn't attend any lecture. Had an attendance of 0% and wasn't allowed to sit for the exam. I guess this is all right, since he hadn't really attended college. Might as well study from home.

But for the first case, I guess the college could've asked the student to submit extra projects/not allowed to give that particular paper. The college could've given the student an opportunity to redeem himself/herself by studying for an extra paper, or by giving a really hard paper. Or ask the kid to make a presentation on frauds and scams and cheats. The student wouldn't have to repeat a year, since a year's education in that college cost 8 lakh rupees, that would be around 20k dollars. And it's a two-year course.

I agree that the kid's at fault for cheating but the intern said: suicides happen every year. And when I asked: why isn't it reported by the news, she said: the college pays money to the hospital authorities and media. Kids aren't really allowed to talk about it.

I think the rules are too harsh. But it's just my opinion.

Click to expand...

A notable distinction between the cases though us that it's highly unlikely that the guy was being punished for not attending. It's more likely that he was deemed unlikely to pass and that would be reflected in the institution's pass rate. It may have even affected someone's pay.

The rules on cheating are supposed to be harsh. They are there to protect the efforts of those who don't cheat, and the value of the qualification they work so hard to attain.

chompers said:

I have no sympathy for them. Freaking commit suicide because you can't take a test? How about being an adult and facing the problem? Better yet, don't cheat?

Click to expand...

Holy shit, is that ever harsh. And blaming the victim? How is DEATH an okay outcome for a disciplinary matter?

The kid didn't just commit suicide over school; she must have had other stresses in her life -- as is common for human beings in that age group -- and you might try to practice a wee bit of empathy for your fellow human beings because nothing about a kid dying is okay or reasonable.

Hell, I had a student whose brother was killed while fleeing the police with three marijuana plants in his trunk. He was eighteen. And all I feel about that is sad. Yes, he was making terrible decisions, but he shouldn't have died at eighteen. He should have gone to jail and got another chance to not be a fuck-up.

Gilroy Cullen said:

For this generation, I think it sound perfect. Too many of them whine that things are too hard, that they need mommy holding their hands.

It's time for them to learn the REAL world. HARD work gets you what you deserve.

Click to expand...

Again, really fucking harsh.

I work with this age group. I teach at a university. I see ZERO evidence that this generation is weak or whiny or immature. My students are pretty much universally great people fumbling their way into adulthood in an imperfect way (like all of us do) but definitely getting there. And, in the process, they're the least racist, least sexist, least homophobic, most compassionate generation the world has ever seen.

I hope they hang onto that compassion better than some of us in the previous generations have. Holy shit.

jjdebenedictis said:

Holy shit, is that ever harsh. And blaming the victim? How is DEATH an okay outcome for a disciplinary matter?

The kid didn't just commit suicide over school; she must have had other stresses in her life -- as is common for human beings in that age group -- and you might try to practice a wee bit of empathy for your fellow human beings because nothing about a kid dying is okay or reasonable.

Hell, I had a student whose brother was killed while fleeing the police with three marijuana plants in his trunk. He was eighteen. And all I feel about that is sad. Yes, he was making terrible decisions, but he shouldn't have died at eighteen. He should have gone to jail and got another chance to not be a fuck-up.

Again, really fucking harsh.

I work with this age group. I teach at a university. I see ZERO evidence that this generation is weak or whiny or immature. My students are pretty much universally great people fumbling their way into adulthood in an imperfect way (like all of us do) but definitely getting there. And, in the process, they're the least racist, least sexist, least homophobic, most compassionate generation the world has ever seen.

I hope they hang onto that compassion better than some of us in the previous generations have. Holy shit.

Click to expand...

Agreed with everything except the bolded bit, assuming he wasn't a pusher. Instead of prison, how bout letting him and his buddies enjoy his crop.

jjdebenedictis said:

Holy shit, is that ever harsh. And blaming the victim? How is DEATH an okay outcome for a disciplinary matter?

The kid didn't just commit suicide over school; she must have had other stresses in her life -- as is common for human beings in that age group -- and you might try to practice a wee bit of empathy for your fellow human beings because nothing about a kid dying is okay or reasonable.

Hell, I had a student whose brother was killed while fleeing the police with three marijuana plants in his trunk. He was eighteen. And all I feel about that is sad. Yes, he was making terrible decisions, but he shouldn't have died at eighteen. He should have gone to jail and got another chance to not be a fuck-up.

Again, really fucking harsh.

I work with this age group. I teach at a university. I see ZERO evidence that this generation is weak or whiny or immature. My students are pretty much universally great people fumbling their way into adulthood in an imperfect way (like all of us do) but definitely getting there. And, in the process, they're the least racist, least sexist, least homophobic, most compassionate generation the world has ever seen.

I hope they hang onto that compassion better than some of us in the previous generations have. Holy shit.

Click to expand...

There is a big difference between being killed by the hands of someone else and by your own hands. How do you know she didn't kill herself over school? Did she tell you that? I highly doubt that. But Jaus DID tell us the school was the reason. And I never said it was okay or reasonable. Where did I ever say that? Don't put words in my mouth. Suicide is never the answer. I said I had no sympathy for her. ESPECIALLY since she brought on the discipline by CHEATING. Why should I feel sorry when she did it all to herself? Literally. For something that can be EASILY overcome. She could have retaken the course.

Fine, I'll be blunt. Kids these days are a bunch of pansies and can't handle anything. Mass killings because a girl didn't like you or because you were bullied? Newsflash, buttercup. There has ALWAYS been bullying. You don't always get the girl. You don't always get your way. You didn't see these mass killing happening till now.

Or how about how they think being disciplined is ABUSE? Abuse is a far cry from discipline. Just one example, a girl once threw a basketball at her sister's face. She got in trouble and got a spanking. Next thing you know she's telling the cops she's been abused. Her dad was arrested and since he was a teacher, he had to stop teaching. He was the sole provider for the family. Her SIBLINGS (yes, plural--not just the one who got hit by the basketball) blame her for all the trouble now plaguing their family. But who does the court think is the victim? The girl. They're telling her she's not wrong whatsoever.

Kids these days ARE nice and compassionate and all the other things you said (although that had nothing with the discussion, but okay...). But they also can't handle anything, because they haven't been given the chance to fail (in a very general sense). Trophies for everyone, right?

You can curse at me all you want (nice behavior, btw), but it doesn't change how I feel or is gonna make me take it back.

So here's the thing. What in Dawg's name made anyone think that Office Party was the right place to post a thread like this? Office Party is where we hang around the water cooler, check out the chicks or the dudes, talk smack about the management, and generally avoid seriousness.

Jaus, for future reference, posts like your initial one belong either in P&CE (though you'd need a hell of a lot more citations than I've seen here to get away with it) or in Conquering Challenges which would probably be better because it would make cray deal with this rather than me.

And I'm pretty sure no matter where we go in AW, this intergenerational nonsense is not going to play. Young people don't do this. Old people don't do that. No. Ain't happening here.

Jaus, if you want to continue this conversation, I'd suggest you PM either one of the P&CE mods or one of the Conquering Challenges mods for their approval before you start again. With their approval, but only with their approval I'll unlock the thread and move it.