1st Person - Straight Male POV - For Women

Maze Runner

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As a reader, and as a straight male, I find Erotica written from the female perspective to be a turn on. I understand that as readers we often identify with the MC, but am I unusual in that I find the female perspective much sexier than the male? I guess what I'm asking is, since it is my understanding that more women read Erotica (and write Erotica as well?) do most straight, female readers want their Erotica from the female POV?

On one of these threads I recently read a post that alluded to the difficulty of "inserting" herself into a male POV, and so I've been wondering if that's a difficulty many women would have.
 

Chris P

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I don't have an answer to your question, but I (straight male) also prefer female POV in erotica. I always attributed it to women in general experiencing such feelings on a more emotional level than men do, and that translates to written stories better than the more visual male POV does. Or at least it's expressed in a way I relate to better. Visually (movies, photos) I gravitate toward "male oriented" material.
 
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Maze Runner

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Interesting, yes, thanks. Also, for me it gives me a glimpse into female sexuality.
 

Maze Runner

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Also, it would be helpful to hear from straight men who prefer Erotica written from the male POV. Thanks!
 

Laurasaurus

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I only read male/male erotica (I'm a straight female). So I guess I'm just like you but the other way around. ie, I prefer reading erotica from the male POV.

Have you tried any female/female erotica?
 
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Maze Runner

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That's interesting. I hadn't considered that. So though you're straight, Male/Female erotica doesn't do it for you? Even from the male POV?

No, I never have. But I'm game. Sure can't see anything that would turn me off.
 

Maze Runner

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Maybe my assumption is wrong. Maybe the majority of straight female readers don't necessarily prefer a female POV.
 

Laurasaurus

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That's interesting. I hadn't considered that. So though you're straight, Male/Female erotica doesn't do it for you? Even from the male POV?

No, I never have. But I'm game. Sure can't see anything that would turn me off.
Hah, you should definitely give it a go.

I did used to read (and enjoy) M/F erotica, but once I discovered M/M, somehow I had no interest in reading M/F anymore.
It's like, what are these breasts doing here? Why aren't there more penises?

Anyway. It's interesting. I wonder if people who don't like the male POV in erotica feel similarly about reading male POV in other genres.
I enjoy female or male POV equally in any other genre. It's just that I only want to read about men having sex with each other, so I guess that necessitates the male POV in erotica!
 

Maze Runner

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Hahahaha, I didn't want to presume. But I had a hunch that's what it was.

Come to think of it, I don't know if I've ever read erotica from a male POV. I've read books from the male MC's perspective where there were sex scenes and I wasn't put off, but I find it a lot sexier, even in non-erotica to climb inside the woman's mind.

I might, but I have to think about it, prefer a male POV in non-erotica--but I don't know, if so it's only by a little.
 

Chris P

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I wonder if people who don't like the male POV in erotica feel similarly about reading male POV in other genres.

I don't; most of the mainstream/contemp titles I read have male POVs. Not by design, but now that you mention it, it's true.

As for F/F erotica, some of it is really hot, and some just gets a *shrug* "good for them." I've only read a few M/M erotica stories, but even when well done they don't do the same thing for me.
 

Maze Runner

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Thanks, Chris and Laura, for chiming in. I thought there would be more here, but maybe it's a question with an obvious answer. Something akin to, Whatever floats a reader's boat, or if it works it works, and if it don't it don't. I just found myself preferring the female POV and wondered if many (any) women felt the same way, in an opposite way. I'm sure some would, some wouldn't, and again I know it comes down to how well it's done. Thanks!
 

StoryofWoe

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Two points jump out at me with regard to this question.

First, I think some straight women do find it easier to place themselves into a female protagonist's shoes (or pants...or underpants). That said, I've always found it has more to do with good characterization. If I can't stand the main character or don't buy her as a person, I'm not going to connect with her experience. Having similar genitalia does not guarantee relatability.

Second, I believe it is also possible to enjoy erotica from the male perspective. (Or, at least, I really hope so, since I'm currently writing a M/F, first person, dual POV, erotic novel.) A lot of romance novels include both the hero and heroine's perspective and I see no reason why this can't extend to erotica. I, for one, like reading about the hero being turned on by the heroine. For me, it's not that I have a hard time "inserting" myself into the male POV. It's whether or not I buy him as a character (see my earlier statement re: relatable heroines). Because I am a woman, I may have an easier time relating viscerally to her sensory experience, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy being inside the male character's head while he's aroused. Arousal is sexy. Sitting behind his eyes while he's courting or falling for a woman can be both hot and emotionally affecting, depending on who he is and how he feels about her. It's one of the main reasons I read and write M/F erotica, and I've sold short stories written from either perspective.

Let me put it this way: If I'm reading an erotic novel with a first person female protagonist, I have to take the male character at his word and believe that he's attracted to the heroine and cares about her the way he says he does (unless I think he's lying). So, why not peek inside his head for a bit? Let him get just as naked and vulnerable and exposed. Give him the chance to show and tell the reader exactly how he feels.

A good chunk of my research for my current WIP involved interviewing male friends about their sexual experiences. I wanted to know what sex with a woman was like for them physically, mentally, and emotionally. I asked about attraction and arousal alongside sensory details. Their responses were fascinating.

Like you've surmised, posing the question, "do most straight, female readers want their Erotica from the female POV?" is going to give you a wide array of responses because not all straight women are into the same thing. Some women prefer female POV because they find it easier to imagine themselves as the MC. Others prefer M/M with no female perspective because, why would I need to read about a vagina? I have one! Show me the wieners! Others enjoy reading a story from both sides.
 

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In addition to the many good points from StoryofWoe, there's the factor of women readers not wanting to compare themselves to the female character -- because they are too different, or perhaps too similar. There's a comfortable detachment with the male POV. In my case, I'm bisexual with a preference for women, but I don't like reading about women having sex, especially not from their perspective. My reason is that I don't respond sexually and emotionally as they do and the contrast is uncomfortable. I usually read and write M/M (usually first person POV). I'll sometimes read and write F/F or M/F when there's more BDSM than "sex."

A while back, I posted a piece about why I and many lesbians like gay male erotica. Straight women obviously have an attraction to men (and two is better than one, right?), but there are many other elements.
 
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sunandshadow

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As a straight female, my preferred MC viewpoint is gay male. I will tolerate a straight female viewpoint but the less similar the character is to me, the more I dislike it. I am not fond of straight male viewpoints in erotica because I do not like to see the thoughts of a male character admiring a female body, or a female character who isn't very similar to me. It makes me feel somewhere between grossed out and jealous. I'm just fine with straight male viewpoints in non-erotica when they aren't fawning all over a female character I don't like or sympathize with, though. Also fine with a straight male viewpoint character who is more of a romantic and doesn't spend time focusing on female bodies.
 

Viridian

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There's a comfortable detachment with the male POV. [...] I don't like reading about women having sex, especially not from their perspective. My reason is that I don't respond sexually and emotionally as they do and the contrast is uncomfortable.
Huh!

I think you just clarified a lot of things for me.

I'm attracted to both men and women, but m/m erotica is the only thing that works for me. I never understood why. Now... now that makes a lot of sense to me.

I think the male body is so alien to me that it's easier to fantasize about. I don't particularly like pretending to be the female characters. It's hard to see myself in them. It's a lot easier to detach completely.

I've started writing a little m/f recently, but it's all from the man's perspective, and the man is a character I identify strongly with. It's the first time m/f has ever worked for me.
 

StoryofWoe

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When I began writing from the straight male perspective I had a really hard time deciding how explicit I wanted to make both his inner commentary and the sex scenes. Maybe it was my own prejudice or I watched too many American Pie films growing up, but I was terrified of depicting him as gross or disrespectful and I think my earlier sex scenes suffered for it. I still find it hard to determine where to draw those lines. When does a male MC's inner monologue go from hot to ick?

I will tolerate a straight female viewpoint but the less similar the character is to me, the more I dislike it. I am not fond of straight male viewpoints in erotica because I do not like to see the thoughts of a male character admiring a female body, or a female character who isn't very similar to me. It makes me feel somewhere between grossed out and jealous. I'm just fine with straight male viewpoints in non-erotica when they aren't fawning all over a female character I don't like or sympathize with, though. Also fine with a straight male viewpoint character who is more of a romantic and doesn't spend time focusing on female bodies.
I love the intimate nature of erotica, but I often wonder if that intimacy can also be also be a liability. By that, I mean I sometimes struggle with whether or not to make my female protagonists too distinct. On the one hand, I want to write a fully fleshed-out character, but at the same time, I want to cultivate that sense of immersion for the reader who may have a different personality, appearance, set of preferences, etc. I combat this by keeping a fair percentage of my male MC's complements somewhat general. He can comment on her hair or her lips or other body parts without being too specific. He likes them because they are hers, not because they are a certain size, shape, color, etc.

I'm curious as to how other erotica writers go about balancing character uniqueness with immersion potential.
 
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elindsen

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I think it has to do with the fantasy. As a female reader, I like seeing what the heroine finds attractive about the man, because duh, I want to know! But I also like seeing the male's POV and what he finds sexy about the woman. For me, seeing a man finding flaws us women obsess over as sexy is nice (even nicer when she's a BBW). But I prefer the male POV. I think that's because I know how a woman thinks. We tend to look at things in a softer, gentler way comapred to men. So to see that tough POV of a male is refreshing, and when you add in sex, it works for me.

Maybe readers like reading the opposite sex's POV for a taste into a different line of sight? Men preferring women because they are softer, more appreciative and such? And woman preferring men for something more upfront and simple? That's my opinion anyways.
 

Laurasaurus

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I think the male body is so alien to me that it's easier to fantasize about. I don't particularly like pretending to be the female characters. It's hard to see myself in them. It's a lot easier to detach completely.
When you read M/M sex scenes, do you imagine yourself as one of the participants? Or both? Or neither?
I'm trying to figure out what I do...
 

Maze Runner

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Arousal is sexy. Sitting behind his eyes while he's courting or falling for a woman can be both hot and emotionally affecting, depending on who he is and how he feels about her. It's one of the main reasons I read and write M/F erotica, and I've sold short stories written from either perspective.

Let me put it this way: If I'm reading an erotic novel with a first person female protagonist, I have to take the male character at his word and believe that he's attracted to the heroine and cares about her the way he says he does (unless I think he's lying). So, why not peek inside his head for a bit? Let him get just as naked and vulnerable and exposed. Give him the chance to show and tell the reader exactly how he feels.

A good chunk of my research for my current WIP involved interviewing male friends about their sexual experiences. I wanted to know what sex with a woman was like for them physically, mentally, and emotionally. I asked about attraction and arousal alongside sensory details. Their responses were fascinating.

Like you've surmised, posing the question, "do most straight, female readers want their Erotica from the female POV?" is going to give you a wide array of responses because not all straight women are into the same thing. Some women prefer female POV because they find it easier to imagine themselves as the MC. Others prefer M/M with no female perspective because, why would I need to read about a vagina? I have one! Show me the wieners! Others enjoy reading a story from both sides.

I think you nailed why I prefer the female POV. Arousal is sexy, and for me, female arousal in particular is sexy. I like the comparison you made between Romance and Erotica--as far as getting both the male and female POVs. On the last book I submitted I got a bite from one of the Harlequin imprints, but the rejection came and was explained based on three reasons: First, it was about 20k words too long. Second, the sex was far too graphic. And third, they wanted it in 3rd person to get the female POV.

I think that makes all the sense in the world--I just find 1st person comes easier to me. Plus, I just prefer it as a reader and a writer.

Interesting, your research for your WIP.

I think it has to do with the fantasy. As a female reader, I like seeing what the heroine finds attractive about the man, because duh, I want to know! But I also like seeing the male's POV and what he finds sexy about the woman. For me, seeing a man finding flaws us women obsess over as sexy is nice (even nicer when she's a BBW). But I prefer the male POV. I think that's because I know how a woman thinks. We tend to look at things in a softer, gentler way comapred to men. So to see that tough POV of a male is refreshing, and when you add in sex, it works for me.

Thanks, as I read these responses, I'm beginning to think I should reconsider my approach in my WIP--it would almost seem I'm shooting myself in the foot by limiting the POV. About 20k words in, 1st person male MC like the last one, and also like the last one the sex is graphic and raw, but I hope it's about a lot more than the physicality--as I believe sex, even for men, is about a lot more than just the physical. All kinds of things at play when people are in the throes of passion and the more we get, the deeper we get, and if we can get it from both sides, all the better. It's just harder for me.

When I began writing from the straight male perspective I had a really hard time deciding how explicit I wanted to make both his inner commentary and the sex scenes. Maybe it was my own prejudice or I watched too many American Pie films growing up, but I was terrified of depicting him as gross or disrespectful and I think my earlier sex scenes suffered for it. I still find it hard to determine where to draw those lines. When does a male MC's inner monologue go from hot to ick?


I love the intimate nature of erotica, but I often wonder if that intimacy can also be also be a liability. By that, I mean I sometimes struggle with whether or not to make my female protagonists too distinct. On the one hand, I want to write a fully fleshed-out character, but at the same time, I want to cultivate that sense of immersion for the reader who may have a different personality, appearance, set of preferences, etc. I combat this by keeping a fair percentage of my male MC's complements somewhat general. He can comment on her hair or her lips or other body parts without being too specific. He likes them because they are hers, not because they are a certain size, shape, color, etc.

I'm curious as to how other erotica writers go about balancing character uniqueness with immersion potential.

I think there is a weeeee bit of prejudice there, in characterizing "men" in the light of "American Pie" types. Believe me, we think those guys are dickheads too. I grew up very working class, blue collar inner-city type of environment, and even those guys (most of them anyway) weren't so shallow. Yes, men "Maybe" it's safe to say, are more motivated by the visual--but even then, that only goes so far. Men, if they have half a brain, are turned off by stupid women (almost) just as fast as women are turned off by stupid men. I say "almost" because, the final break can really, let's face it wait until tomorrow.

I hear you with regards to your concerns with how specific to get with characters. I tend to think going halfway on most things is dangerous, because then NO one will like them.

*AS a side note, if anyone would comment, it would really be a big help. But in the EROTICA genre, or I guess in any book where you've written very graphic sex, have you found yourselves limiting yourselves as far as what scenes or characters or storylines or I guess even themes you can run alongside (I've found either right before or right after) highly graphic sex scenes? That sounds convaluted-- like this, if I have my MC getting this that and the other and giving this that and the other, and in the very next scene fielding a phone call from his mother to nag him about coming home from Christmas, or from an underage little cousin to say that he/seh will be visiting next week, do you ever find yourself cringing and thinking, wait, better put some space between these scenes--But then, of course, on the other hand I think and I know that sex is as normal an activity as sitting down to a turkey dinner with your Aunt Rose on Christmas Day, and so it may just be my bias, or actually some leftover shame I have from my Catholic upbringing---I don't know, anybody know what I'm talking about here? Kind of like, my hang-up tells me that if I've got very graphic sex throughout a book, that somehow limits just how wholesome the other scenes can be. Hope this makes sense--find it is happening a lot now in my WIP, thanks.
 

Viridian

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When you read M/M sex scenes, do you imagine yourself as one of the participants? Or both? Or neither?
I'm trying to figure out what I do...
Weird as it sounds, I think I do identify with the POV character. I see myself as that character and imagine those sensations.

I think that some people identify more strongly with the opposite sex. My husband, for example, always uses female characters when he's playing a videogame.

And for some reason, when I dream, I'm usually a guy. Weird, huh? I guess that's just sort of how I see myself.
 

Maryn

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*AS a side note, if anyone would comment, it would really be a big help. But in the EROTICA genre, or I guess in any book where you've written very graphic sex, have you found yourselves limiting yourselves as far as what scenes or characters or storylines or I guess even themes you can run alongside (I've found either right before or right after) highly graphic sex scenes? That sounds convaluted-- like this, if I have my MC getting this that and the other and giving this that and the other, and in the very next scene fielding a phone call from his mother to nag him about coming home from Christmas, or from an underage little cousin to say that he/seh will be visiting next week, do you ever find yourself cringing and thinking, wait, better put some space between these scenes--But then, of course, on the other hand I think and I know that sex is as normal an activity as sitting down to a turkey dinner with your Aunt Rose on Christmas Day, and so it may just be my bias, or actually some leftover shame I have from my Catholic upbringing---I don't know, anybody know what I'm talking about here? Kind of like, my hang-up tells me that if I've got very graphic sex throughout a book, that somehow limits just how wholesome the other scenes can be. Hope this makes sense--find it is happening a lot now in my WIP, thanks.
I'm sure everyone works in his or her own way, as they should, but I craft character and story before I craft sexual encounters. Most often I begin with a character who's got this issue and that weakness, which makes the person sexually available later. I flesh the person out with backstory (which often fails to appear in the book) which accounts for them being the way they are, then plop him or her into a situation with another human whose wants and needs are not a perfect match and who's got their own stuff going on. Voila, we got us a plot!

I don't have any problem with the juxtaposition of kinky graphic sex and my character reading to six-year-olds or rescuing puppies. I do have my characters behave with adult discretion, but they don't feel much guilt over liking whatever it is they like, including some kink, unless getting over that guilt is part of the plot.

Maryn, never a Catholic, though
 

Maze Runner

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I'm sure everyone works in his or her own way, as they should, but I craft character and story before I craft sexual encounters. Most often I begin with a character who's got this issue and that weakness, which makes the person sexually available later. I flesh the person out with backstory (which often fails to appear in the book) which accounts for them being the way they are, then plop him or her into a situation with another human whose wants and needs are not a perfect match and who's got their own stuff going on. Voila, we got us a plot!

I don't have any problem with the juxtaposition of kinky graphic sex and my character reading to six-year-olds or rescuing puppies. I do have my characters behave with adult discretion, but they don't feel much guilt over liking whatever it is they like, including some kink, unless getting over that guilt is part of the plot.

Maryn, never a Catholic, though

I think my problem, perceived or real, is that what I did last time and what I'm doing now may not be considered pure Erotica. There is sex, often and graphic, but the plots do not revolve around sex. It may have been what brought my male and female MCs together, but in the last one for example it leads to the male MC hunted by professional killers. In the one I'm working on now, it's not even sex that brings them together but business, and that business along with a problem the male MC has with regards to his ex wife, her current husband, and his daughter is where I see the plot going. I don't plot, so I'm not so sure and honestly no so thrilled with where it looks like it's going at the moment but that's probably for another thread--And really, when it comes down to it, I guess I don't understand the genre in as far as, I know there should be (or often is) another story going on, but somehow I'm having trouble tying the two together. I didn't have this confusion with the last one I wrote, which I've since found a home for, I think maybe because the sex was inherent to the story.

I don't know, I'm rambling a bit, 'cause I'm not so sure of what I'm talking about. Thanks.