Another aviation question

aruna

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Didn't want to hijack that other thread but I'd love some input here from you flyers!

IN my WIP (different from the one last year, for which I also had aviation questions) I have a small plane flying over the jungle in Guyana when a storm hits them and it crashes, only one survivor.

I don't know Jack sh!t about flying. I don't need any technical details; just a plausible reason why a small plane should crash during a storm.

The plane's a Dakota - I used that because I know they used that sort of plane there. I have no idea what a Dakota is, and the reader doesn't have to know, but it might be useful for me to atleast have a vague idea of what is going on.

Sorry to sound like an idiot. The plane crash is merely one incident in the story, but I do need to make it plausible. Can you help me with a scenario? The storm is important. The way it is now, I have the plane crashbeing braked by the treetops, so there is no impact on the ground and no explosion. Would the plane crack open under sich circumstances? What would happen? I just have to make it possible for everyone to die except one passenger.
 

Alien Enigma

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You're not going to like this coming from me, but you could use that the plane suffered metal fatigue in the fuselage or the plane was not serviced for the mandated pressure requirements.
 
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aruna

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Alien Enigma said:
You're not going to like this coming from me, but you could use that the plane suffered metal fatigue in the fuselage or the plane was not serviced for the mandated pressure requirements.

Thank you, Alien! Of course I don't mind it coming from you - all help is welcome, and that's a very good reason, and very likely in the face of conditions at the time.
 

Kathie Freeman

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A lightning strike within the storm can wreak all kinds of havoc with instrumentation, fuel or oil lines. Impaired visibility can cause an inexperienced pilot to become disoriented.
 

janetbellinger

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Good suggestion, Jeff. The small plane pilot may only have Visual Flight Reference qualifications, instead of Instrument Flight References. If he/she had IFR he/she would be able to navigate, even in a storm. Without it, he/she would not be able to see. Also, lightning could strike an engine, causing a fire in the airplane. If the weather was cold he/she might have forgotten to deice the aircraft.
 

aruna

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Thanks toal of you. That's already a lot to work with; all these suggestions are good ones.
I think I like the lighnting idea best, as it needs th eleast of exposition and it connects with the storm. I don't want tohaev to say the machine was old or unserviced, or that the pilot was underqualified. The lightning strike keeps up the action.
 

Ed Rogers

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Fuel

Small planes out side of the US run into bad fuel. Due to the way it is stored or sometimes it is a blackmarket shipment, cost of fuel is very hight at small airports. There may be dirt or water within it, or a line could break. One thing for sure "No fuel--no fly":Shrug:
 

DaveKuzminski

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Microburst. It's a weather condition that occurs frequently all around the world. It's a sudden downward burst of wind that can drop anything down a thousand feet in just a second. It's known to have caught planes and caused them to crash. It occurs most frequently in storms, but has been known to occur occasionally under other conditions.

It can crash good planes with good maintenance, plenty of good fuel, and good pilots just as easily as any without those qualifications.
 
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MadScientistMatt

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How low is the plane flying?

Winds could certainly have blown it into the trees; as Dave noted, some of them are quite powerful and unpredictable.

I had a book somewhere on cross-country flying. It mentioned that lightning strikes and the damage they do are extremely unpredictable. You can have the lightning destroy almost anything electrical you want it to, and leave other things unharmed.

There have been a huge variety of ways to build airplanes. An explosion is unlikely, but just how much it cracks apart will depend on what the plane is made from and a large amount of dumb luck. Many planes, like Cessnas, military aircraft, and airliners, are built from aluminum. Aluminum may tear on impact, but the rips often stop at panel edges. A wooden and canvas plane would have its frame snap in several places, and the canvas ripped. A fiberglass or carbon fiber plane would probably shatter - note that these usually have a bit of wood in them too, including a frame for the wings.

Chances are that many of the people who die in the crash would have struck objects inside the cockpit - especially if they didn't have their seatbelts on.
 

alleycat

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A Dakota is basically a Douglas DC-3. It's a twin engine, metal body aircraft.

ac
 

asorum

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Aircraft Failures

It looks like you have covered several possibilities. The DC-3 or C-47 Dakota was a real workhorse during WWII and beyond. They are powered by a pair of huge radial engines and the plane has a history of being very reliable. Lightning alone would probably not down a DC-3. It could damage navigation equipment which would be a problem in the clouds.

Other things were listed. Contaminated fuel or no fuel, metal fatigue in a wing spar, engine failure, control failure or fire. Normally it's a series of events that causes an accident. Oil leak>engine failure>propeller doesn't feather>loss of altitude>crunch.

Good luck with your effort. The only other thing you might consider is a smaller plane. The DC-3 is normally flown by two people and think you were talking about one person in your story. Use a Cessna C-172 Skyhawk or C-206 Stationair.
 

PaperbackWriter

For a bit more info on the 'Dak' (and a picture) look here: http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/equip/historical/dakotalst_e.asp

A Dak is a hardy plane, but they are old, but it is not a small plane. They used to be used for cargo and paratroopers in the second world war.


I would go with metal fatigue or an explosion (or both) - your story location is perfect for gun running (or explosives) to drug lords. Which would also explain why the plane is not maintained to specification.

Maybe an RPG (missile) attack?

Or another: in Africa we often have civil war. A friend was on a flight many years ago, suddenly the plane dropped to a very low altitude, and all the lights were switched off (this was a night flight).
The explanation was this – Guerrilla factions on the ground would fire indiscriminately at the planes overhead – if you do not have an air force then all planes can be considered the enemy – by keeping low the troops on the ground do not have enough time to load up, aim and fire from the time they see it… the plane would be long gone.
What if the pilot makes an error and hits a higher than average tree, or one on a knoll? The plane would go down if damaged enough…


Maybe flying low to avoid radar?




A pilot friend (he flew Daks at one time) once told me that planes often get hit by lightning, but since the circuit is not completed (it needs to be conducted into the ground) no damage is done to the plane – or its instruments.


As for the crash, I would imagine that the tops of the trees would cushion the crash, but as that plane gets closer to the ground (as gravity demands) the thicker tree stumps would wreak havoc on that old frame.

I picture one wing of the plane dipping down (say the left one) and knocking one of those stout trees… maybe rip off one of the wings. Now the plane is on its side, one wing up, fuselage crashing into the ground, tail ripping off, stuff flying around inside the fuselage – deadly projectiles.

Trees would be knocked down, there would be an ugly scar in the jungle.

The plane would probably not explode, though it may start burning.
Your pilots (two of them) could be killed by the direct impact since they would be sitting right up front.


Plenty of time to kill the handfull of people on the flight, bar one.


There should be enough above to get the imagination going.
 

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aruna said:
I think I like the lighnting idea best, as it needs th eleast of exposition and it connects with the storm. I don't want tohaev to say the machine was old or unserviced, or that the pilot was underqualified. The lightning strike keeps up the action.

I'm not sure I would buy the lightning idea all by itself, because storms are dangerous--even passenger jets generally prefer to fly above or around storms rather than through them, and small planes certainly do (small planes would try to go around the storm or land and wait until it passed). So the pilot would have to be a jackass to knowingly fly really close to or through it. The lightning strike could obviously wreak havoc, but first you'd have to explain what the hell they were doing flying so close to a storm in the first place. They shouldn't just happen to get caught in a storm, because a competent pilot checks the weather forecast before they go. If for some reason he got lost, then they might just happen upon a storm, but the pilot would see it long before they got to it and would try to avoid it.

By the way, if you want some insight into the difference between an instrument-rated pilot and one who's not instrument rated, look up articles on the crash that killed JFK Jr. (a NON-instrument-rated pilot who imprudently and inexplicably decided to fly over the ocean on a moonless night!!!).

Even if it WERE hit by lightning, the loss of certain instruments would only be critical if (1) visibility were crap and (2) the pilot were instrument-rated, i.e. he could've flown the plane in horrible visibility if it weren't for the fact the instruments just got knocked out. If he weren't instrument-rated, they would crash just because of the bad visibility--the presence or absence of functioning instruments wouldn't make a difference. Having lightning knock out a fuel line seems a little unlikely and melodramatic to me--there are so many other problems involved with flying in the storm (and the basic problem is an incompetent pilot--what kind of jackass tries to fly a small plane through a thunderstorm, etc.), that the fuel-line lightning-strike thing just seems like overkill.

What would work for me is if the storm messed up visibility, as storms generally do--you don't have to be in or right next to the storm to have impaired visibility--and the pilot got disoriented or panicked. If the countryside where your scene takes place happens to be mountainous, there's an obvious accident waiting to happen: even passenger jets have been known to fly into mountainsides when visibility is bad (and, in the case of passenger jets, one or more instruments is broken, and/or the pilot (or ATC) makes a big mistake). Anyway, if it flies into a mountainside some other way than head-on, one survivor is completely plausible. Ditto if it flies into treetops.

The other definite possibility, ESPECIALLY if the terrain is mountainous, is a freak wind that blows the plane into a mountain or (if it's flying low) trees. Freak winds can happen in mountains easily, and they're common in the vicinity of a storm too, so that's quite plausible. Dave mentioned microbursts--they're especially common near (or, of course, in) storms. And here's some information on wind issues in mountain flying:
http://www.nw.faa.gov/ats/zdvartcc/high_mountain/mwx.html
 
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aruna

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Thanks for all your comments, and sorry for my absence on the thread - I was in Germany for a week without internet. Lots of good situations in the above suggestions, but a couple of them, would require too much explanation - and I want to keep this scene and the info in it short - which is why I favoured the lighnting stirke, I can easily show that rather than tell, whereas even "bad maintenence" would have to be explained somehow.
Here is some more info on the situation:
Guyana is a large, flat land covered mostly by tropical rainforest. The only mountains are in the very hinterland, and do not come into the story at all. There are no roads to the interior towns and villages, so much of the transport is by small plane. At the story's time, the country was in dire economical straits, and suffered as well from brain drain. So bad equipment, bad fuel and bad pilot could also be significant, but again, I'd need to somehow explain all of that.

The trip concerned is a two-hour excursion to visit a famous waterfall in the interior. The number of passengers doesn't matter, just that there are certainly more than the two characters concerned.

Now, the weather: it's mostly sunny, but rain showers are likely to break at any time, last for a few minutes, and then stop. Even on a clear blue day, sometimes clouds gather, it rains, and then stops, and the sky turns cloudless again. The rain clouds come in from the Atlantic. Weather reports, as far as I remember, are so good as non-existant, since you know you're wither in the rainy or the dry season, but that it can rain at any time. Though I suppose it's different for pilots! However, Guyanese simply don't have the weather-checking habit, so it could be the pilot's negligence , or that a storm came up unexpectedly. (Likely during a two-hour flight?)
When it rains heavily, then it is really heavy.
I am quite happy to make it a smaller plane, but I have absoltely no idea what would be used at that time, in that place.
 

DaveKuzminski

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Unless your pilot is an expert at maintenance to know what is causing the problem, odds are he won't. He'll be too busy trying to regain control, so that means you don't have to actually show anything more than him reacting. You don't have to actually give the cause.
 

Billytwice

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I think the Dakota is a large, old but reliable aircraft and I'd be tempted to go for something smaller.

Perhaps a helicopter? I still can't figure out how those things stay in the air.
I think I'd go for pilot error as the cause of the crash, and I'd probably make the pilot a drunk or a stoner...LOL
I know, a drop out US Vietnam vet pilot stoned on grass and one of those Huey gunships.

Check this out:
http://www.aircav.com/huey/uh1.html
or this:
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/uh-1m.htm
 

johnnysannie

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Ed Rogers said:
Small planes out side of the US run into bad fuel. Due to the way it is stored or sometimes it is a blackmarket shipment, cost of fuel is very hight at small airports. There may be dirt or water within it, or a line could break. One thing for sure "No fuel--no fly":Shrug:

Bad fuel can indeed cause a plane to crash - and it does happen in the US but not often. A friend of my husband's crashed his small plane a few years ago after getting bad (as in contaminated with dirt or water) fuel in the US. He survived but it was a long recovery.

It was scary to me because we - my husband and I - had flown with him in the plane that later crashed.
 

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Wind shear could take a Dakota out easily and doesn't require much explanation to anyone that is a flyer or knows planes. The result could be anything from stalled engines to abruptly altered flight paths (aka turbulance). Most often they occur along a weather front, but they have been known to occur in almost all weather patterns as well, including a bright sunny day. It's a serious enough weather condition that as of about 10 years ago or so all airlines are required to carry specific equipment that gives a bit of warning to the pilot if wind shear is present or possible (no clue how that works, though, sorry.)

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_is_wind_shear.htm

for a simplified explanation, or just google Wind Shear if you want more detail.
 

Billytwice

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I saw an interesting TV show the other night about lightning.

Apparently aircraft do get hit by lightning, which I found odd as I thought you had to be connected to earth to attract lightning?
Yet another reason for me not to embark on a flight!
Anyhow, this young American pilot often flew his aircraft into thunderstorms to look for lightning bolts (it takes all sorts I suppose.)
The effects of the lightning on the structure of the aircraft was to make a small molten patch about the size of a match head where the lightning hit (entrance point) and a three to four inch vapourised hole where the lightning exited the aircraft.
Perhaps you could use a lightning strike as a cause? I should imagine the extreme voltages and current involved would destroy the electronic equipment on board though I don't recall any mention of this during the TV show.
Of possibly more interest is the dents and damage caused by large hailstones to the aircraft as these large hailstones are common in high altitude thunderstorms?
The aircraft looked very much the worse for wear with all those dents in wings etc.
 

rich

Take the wind. Easier to explain, and won't have you geting into maintenance problems, which you'll somewhat have to explain. If the plane is that low, other than the pilot not knowing he's low, he'd have had his wheels down. The tree tops would not have a "braking" affect, it would force its nose to head earthward.
 

jcbwrites

A couple of things here from an old pilot. First, if you're going on a sightseeing tour for a couple of hours, taking a Dakota would require a lot of paying passengers, it's noisy and it's also a very strong old bird.

More realistic would be, say, a 1956 Beech Twin or a 1959 Piper Twin carrying 3-4 people out for the sightseeing. These are plausible planes and could be found in Guyana. Bad fuel can be serious but usually shows up at or shortly after takeoff. Lightening seldom does any damage to a plane that would render it unflyable--besides, it's been done so many times...

I would think a very realistic scenario would be as simple as poor maintenance resulting in loss of power. Loose bolts, worn cables, frayed wiring and disintegrating hoses can and do happen. That's a bit sanitary but there are miles around it to write reactions, emotions and noises to build up suspense as the plane cannot maintain flight as is going down.

Also, the smaller plane would most likely begin to breakup in the trees by shearing off the wings. As it does, the fuselage can go through the thick vegetation and be slowed sufficiently to stay somewhat intact. Here, of course, the two occpants of the front seats can meet their demise easily while others in the back seats can be knocked off in various ways; flying debris, branches cutting along the side of the craft and flying internal missles come to mind.

Sorry--you got me going there. Hope this can help you.
 

jst5150

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The suggestion of microburst seems most feasible given tropical conditions and that "rain could break out at any time." :)
 

aruna

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jcbwrites said:
A couple of things here from an old pilot. First, if you're going on a sightseeing tour for a couple of hours, taking a Dakota would require a lot of paying passengers, it's noisy and it's also a very strong old bird.


Sorry--you got me going there. Hope this can help you.

Excellent points, and thanks!
 

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Dakota: single-engine Piper

The Piper Dakota is a 235-hp low-wing four-seat airplane, popular because of its ability to carry a heavier-than-average payload. Most bush planes are high-wing aircraft. Reason: a low wing could snag low-growing vegetation upon landing. Also, a high-wing plane gives unobstructed visibility downward, which makes picking a landing site easier. An earlier poster mentioned a Cessna 172 Skyhawk or 206 Stationair, both high-wing aircraft. The latter is a six-seater, commonly referred to as an aerial SUV. This is probably the more logical plane to use in the jungle. And a microburst from the thunderstorm could quite literally push it down onto and into the treetops. You can get more info, with photos, from Cessna's Web site, www.cessna.com.
 
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aruna

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Hello everyone!
I'm revising this ms and am back with this scene; It's now the very first scene in the book.

I have some more questions.
What would happen inside the plane when it is crashing? As a layman I of course have the pilot yelling Mayday or Brace! Brace! bit is this credible in a small plane? WHo would he be yelling Mayday to, if that were the case? Would the plane have communication with a main airport, so far inland? Remember this is 1978, in a small 3rd world country.
Thanks!