Getting opinions is MADDENING

Agree, EF. It's not specific to here - it's nearly universal. Years ago, I stopped getting critiques from writers and took my work to the most important critics of all: Readers.

I posted something here and you would have thought that I'd just passed my ABCs test with a score of 62%. Just awful criticism, vitriolic. Seems as if most writers use writing critique to clear the decks on their own frustrations.

Avoid writer critiques like the plague. We cannot help ourselves in discovering a canyonful of wrongnesses with anyone's work - other than our own.

Yes it is maddening. But I think it's definitely worth it. My two cents, probably for newbies rather than you:

1) Thank everyone who tried to help you. Just say thanks, don't argue or try to straighten them out on anything. You asked for a critique, they did not.

2) If you get mad or confused, put it all up for a while.

3) Go through each critique and make the changes that stand out to you like "Why didn't I think of that?"

4) Cross out the ones that are just not it. Expect that you won't use most of the suggestions, by far.

5) Then you are just left with the "maybes." Give extra consideration if several people say the same thing. Look up suggestions about facts, grammar, or anything else that is verifiable. When in doubt, leave it the way you had it.

6) If you think there's a general tone (or whatever you'd call it) on a particular forum and people have come to either tend to be too easy or too harsh, try a different one.

Sorry, that's all I got!

efreysson said:

Let me start by stating that I appreciate the spirit of attempting to help. But:

It's the same every time. Every time for the last eight years when I've tried to put up a blurb or a query letter or review request up on this site or any other for opinions, it gets criticized to death. Now, the whole purpose of putting this stuff up is to get critiques and suggestions, but the responses barely ever seem to agree on anything except that it's no good. They don't even agree on what the problem is. First it doesn't give enough information, then I rewrite and then it's wordy and focused on the wrong things. I rewrite again, and now it's focused on different wrong things. I have honestly never gotten the response "I'd go with this". It's like people only respond if they don't like it, and it leaves me with no sense of whether my current version of anything is any good. It's . . . just . . . painful, and aggravating.

Oof. Sorry. I'm trying to rewrite my Amazon blurb and I just needed to rant a bit.

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Welcome to the learning process. Everything will be wrong until you get knocked around enough to make something right. And there's no point in having a writing forum if everyone agreed on the same things. Why don't you just ask a single person to help you if you want a single common answer?

Take a look at some of the longer thread in QLH that have gotten to the point of, "Yeah, this is good, send it off." Those people did go through hell, but it worked out in the end.

efreysson said:

Now, the whole purpose of putting this stuff up is to get critiques and suggestions, but the responses barely ever seem to agree on anything except that it's no good. They don't even agree on what the problem is.

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You know, I've noticed the comments in two separate threads you've started for the same blurb advise to cut out the log lines and vague, mysterious stuff and to show your character, what she wants and what's getting in her way. People have been pretty consistent with these suggestions and even go as far as to suggest how they'd tighten it and where they think some concrete details could go. Then you put up an equally vague rewrite and get pretty much the same replies.

Nobody has to take the advice or even like it. But to rudely ignore that many of the crits one has been getting have in fact been pointing out the same issues repeatedly, well, that's maddening.

efreysson said:

Let me start by stating that I appreciate the spirit of attempting to help. But:

It's the same every time. Every time for the last eight years when I've tried to put up a blurb or a query letter or review request up on this site or any other for opinions, it gets criticized to death. Now, the whole purpose of putting this stuff up is to get critiques and suggestions, but the responses barely ever seem to agree on anything except that it's no good. They don't even agree on what the problem is.

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I had a quick look at your thread blurb, and I do see consensus there (which I agree with). Your blurb is vague, generic, and doesn't start with the MC. But perhaps you are referring to past threads?

efreysson said:

First it doesn't give enough information, then I rewrite and then it's wordy and focused on the wrong things. I rewrite again, and now it's focused on different wrong things.

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Well, isn't this possible?

efreysson said:

I have honestly never gotten the response "I'd go with this". It's like people only respond if they don't like it, and it leaves me with no sense of whether my current version of anything is any good.

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This is rather unfair, I think. Personally, I love saying "I'd go with this," and have done so many times, as have others. In fact, sometimes we have to pry the writer's hot little hands off their query so they don't keep fiddling and suck the voice from it. You'll never get consensus on when a query is good to go, but if a few people say it, it's likely ready to release into the wild.

efreysson said:

It's . . . just . . . painful, and aggravating.

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Agreed. Been there, done that, got the damn T-shirt (and a query I'm happy with).

efreysson said:

Oof. Sorry. I'm trying to rewrite my Amazon blurb and I just needed to rant a bit.

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Understandable. But, yanno, it's not a big incentive for me to go and crit your blurb now, is it.

Write_At_1st_Light said:

I posted something here and you would have thought that I'd just passed my ABCs test with a score of 62%. Just awful criticism, vitriolic. Seems as if most writers use writing critique to clear the decks on their own frustrations.

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Just wanted to say, if anyone is getting critiques on this site they deem "vitriolic," you should report them to the forum mod. Query Hell, and Share Your Work generally, aren't mean for deliberate destruction - that's a clear violation of the One Rule.

Pasty and Osulagh are right on - sometimes you have to go through a little hell before you get to the "yeah...yeah this works for me". Sometimes you need to get beat with the carrot first before it's offered in SYW - in my case, I usually get smacked a couple times on the back of the head with the carrot, and then once I've looked at my work cross-eyed, well, then they dangle the carrot

But to say all writers enjoy stabbing and shredding things with their critique pens is unfair (I'm not saying this to the original OP per se, but to the broader writer ether here). Because we don't! I like to encourage the good things I see in fellow writers and help whittle out the bad bits. Do we writers sometimes forget to be readers? Sure. I see it happen. I'm sure I do it too, sometimes.

One thing that can help if you feel like you are only getting nitpicky or stomp-on-your-papers feedback is to ask questions. Like "okay, so you don't think this and this are working. are there any diamonds in the rough I can use and polish up in my next go?" We critters like to ponder questions, and will happily answer. I like getting into such dialogues, but it not only gets me thinking about the OP's work - it makes me reflect on MY writing, too. Win-win.

Another thought? Look at other crits your respondees have done. Their style of critting may just not speak to you in a way that you can work with it. Or, if you read the critter's other posts, and find they have real gems that you are nodding your head to...well, you might want to listen to what they are pointing out in your work with a little more salt.

I think the hardest part of getting critiques from other writers is that we're really good at jabbing a hot iron right on the sore spots (readers tend to be kinder and poke with a feather duster, which only tickles). I'll sometimes curse to myself when the first posts start raining in on a new SYW piece, whether it's the dreaded query or a story...but if I give myself a little time to think them over, I realize I'm getting mad at myself and recognizing some things I need to change. Or, I recognize the critter speaks wisdom, but I need to ask them to expound upon what they mean as I may not figure out a way to fix it the first go.

Now I'll leave a plate of cookies and a pillow so you don't hurt yourself head-banging against the wall - unless of course you get excellent ideas that way. (In which case, please let me in on your secret, as I find my desk has yet to yield the wisdom of the universe even though my forehead communes with it on a regular basis.)

efreysson said:

Let me start by stating that I appreciate the spirit of attempting to help. But:

It's the same every time. Every time for the last eight years when I've tried to put up a blurb or a query letter or review request up on this site or any other for opinions, it gets criticized to death. Now, the whole purpose of putting this stuff up is to get critiques and suggestions, but the responses barely ever seem to agree on anything except that it's no good. They don't even agree on what the problem is. First it doesn't give enough information, then I rewrite and then it's wordy and focused on the wrong things. I rewrite again, and now it's focused on different wrong things. I have honestly never gotten the response "I'd go with this". It's like people only respond if they don't like it, and it leaves me with no sense of whether my current version of anything is any good. It's . . . just . . . painful, and aggravating.

Oof. Sorry. I'm trying to rewrite my Amazon blurb and I just needed to rant a bit.

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You know, this isn't about the spirit of attempting to help. It's about you asking for feedback, people taking time out of their day to provide that feedback as best as they can, and your unhappiness with the feedback. Because all of us here are at different levels in our writing careers, not all the advice you get is going to be spot on. So that's when you thank the poster and don't follow that advice. And when someone passes along advice that makes sense, you thank the poster and use that advice. Like others here have said, if the poster is a jerk, hit the report post button.

We all need to rant on occasion. I get that. But frankly, posts like yours here discourage people from spending their time trying to help you. Further, they discourage people from critiquing anybody. If it makes you this unhappy, maybe it would be better if you didn't ask for other people's opinions.

Write_At_1st_Light said:

Agree, EF. It's not specific to here - it's nearly universal. Years ago, I stopped getting critiques from writers and took my work to the most important critics of all: Readers.

I posted something here and you would have thought that I'd just passed my ABCs test with a score of 62%. Just awful criticism, vitriolic. Seems as if most writers use writing critique to clear the decks on their own frustrations.

Avoid writer critiques like the plague. We cannot help ourselves in discovering a canyonful of wrongnesses with anyone's work - other than our own.

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So then when I'm seeking opinions on my writing I shouldn't ask other writers? Following that same train of thought, if I'm seeking opinions on a medical condition I shouldn't ask a doctor; if I'm seeking opinions on a legal matter, I shouldn't ask a lawyer. If I'm planning a vacation to Brazil, I suppose it would be better to ask a bartender than a travel agent too.

On occasion--a very rare occasion--I do see an inappropriate, perhaps vitriolic critique. In my experience, these get crushed pretty quickly, particularly when the post is reported. But the most vitriolic posts I see in SYW are from thin-skinned whiners who ask for a critique but are offended when somebody doesn't appreciate their genius as much as their mom does.

Your post is offensive to writers in general, our critiquers here, and to me. You've done a fine job of breaking AW's Prime Directive--Respect Your Fellow Writer.

We're done here.