Bernie's In: A Pain in Hillary's Left Flank

William Haskins · Apr 29, 2015

Washington (CNN)Bernie Sanders is in.

The independent Vermont senator told the Associated Press in a story published Wednesday that he plans to run for the Democrats' 2016 presidential nomination. The news was confirmed by multiple Sanders aides.

"I am running for president," he told The Associated Press.

"People should not underestimate me," Sanders told the AP. "I've run outside of the two-party system, defeating Democrats and Republicans, taking on big-money candidates and, you know, I think the message that has resonated in Vermont is a message that can resonate all over this country."

Sanders caucuses with the Democrats in the Senate but is an unlikely candidate for the Democratic nomination, primarily because he has never been a registered member of the party and calls himself a "democratic socialist."

Yet many of his views fit with the Democratic left, a constituency in which Sanders has found a small yet devout following. Sanders and his top advisers hope that group of voters will propel his dark horse candidacy. Though Hillary Clinton is the dominant frontrunner, many in the progressive left of the party think she's too moderate and are clamoring for a different candidate to support.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/29/politics/bernie-sanders-announces-presidential-run/

blacbird · Apr 29, 2015

Sanders is never going to be the Democratic nominee. If he makes an independent run, he benefits Republicans in the same way that Ralph Nader did back in 2000.

That said, I'm glad he's in. He'll bring issues to the forefront that need to be addressed, and that could affect Republican candidates, too.

caw

MacAllister · Apr 29, 2015

Yup. Ditto what Blackie said. Sanders is an avowed socialist -- the kind of candidate I'd love to see get some real traction -- but the Overton window has shifted too far to the right for even most left-wing Dems to take him all that seriously.

BUT he might change the conversation. That'd be something.

Magdalen · Apr 29, 2015

Started to post about a NEW future, a world where people elect to care about each other & eat lots of pancakes, but no, I see that is clearly the madness talking!!

Am I the only who who thinks 19 months of political campaigning is obscene?

William Haskins · Apr 29, 2015

MacAllister said:
BUT he might change the conversation. That'd be something.

he will definitely do that. he's not a wild-eyed outsider, he's an established and shrewd politician.

he'll likely get sufficient traction where she has to acknowledge him, whether on the road or in debates, and he's going to force her to defend her more right-leaning positions.

could be a pip. could be a pip.

nighttimer · Apr 29, 2015

The title of this thread is both factual ("Bernie's In") and wishful thinking ("A Pain in Hillary's Left Flank").

Sanders is too far to the Left to win in a general election. Sanders is too unknown to the general population. Sanders cannot build the national organization or raise the millions necessary to mount a presidential campaign for a year and a half.

Here's another sticking point: Sanders isn't even a Democrat. Which means as a Socialist he can join Jim Webb and Lincoln Chafee as former Republicans who became Democrats out of political convenience instead of principled conviction. I'm certain the Clinton campaign will mention that salient fact if Sanders should ever edge his way into double digits in the polls.

Sanders is running for president for the same reason his Senate colleague Ted Cruz; not to win, but to make a point and gain attention to the issues important to him. Nothing wrong with that, but let's not pretend for a moment there's going to be a Sanders vs. Cruz presidential debate next year.

Unless Hillary has a total meltdown she should dispatch the Left's Elizabeth Warren Consolation Prize fairy quickly and easily.

blacbird · Apr 29, 2015

nighttimer said:
Sanders is running for president for the same reason his Senate colleague Ted Cruz; not to win, but to make a point and gain attention to the issues important to him.

On this point, I disagree with you, in the sense that I really do think Ted Cruz really does think he can win the GOP nomination, and, by doing so, the Presidency.

caw

William Haskins · Apr 29, 2015

nighttimer said:
The title of this thread is both factual ("Bernie's In") and wishful thinking ("A Pain in Hillary's Left Flank").

Sanders is too far to the Left to win in a general election

is that what you took "a pain in hillary's left flank" to mean? that it predicts sanders is going to take the white house?

lol.

Monkey · Apr 30, 2015

I immediately thought of warhorse analogies. Sanders is nothing more than a horsefly, and Hilary is such a seasoned vet that he's not going to distract her from the task at hand, no matter how much he goes for blood.

I think Nighttimer's right in that Sander's is unlikely to be much of a problem simply because he has so little chance of coming anywhere near Hilary's numbers, much less being a serious contender for the Whitehouse.

I also think Blackbird is right in that he could change the discussion a bit, and like him and Mac, I appreciate and look forward to that.

Don · Apr 30, 2015

I think Sanders can raise some interesting issues that may gain more attention on the left than they have when raised on the right, such as the growing corporatocracy, the craptastic economic "recovery," our crumbling infrastructure, "free trade" agreements, and the imperial machine. He can raise questions that Hillary will have a hard time answering, if he's allowed to speak, although he'll likely be written off as "fringe" by the press, as has happened with candidates on the right who dare ask these questions.

Too bad his grasp of economics is on the level of Nicholas Maduro, ignoring the marginal revolution of 150 years ago and failing to grasp subjective value.

robeiae · Apr 30, 2015

blacbird said:
Sanders is never going to be the Democratic nominee. If he makes an independent run, he benefits Republicans in the same way that Ralph Nader did back in 2000.

That said, I'm glad he's in. He'll bring issues to the forefront that need to be addressed, and that could affect Republican candidates, too.

caw

MacAllister said:
Yup. Ditto what Blackie said. Sanders is an avowed socialist -- the kind of candidate I'd love to see get some real traction -- but the Overton window has shifted too far to the right for even most left-wing Dems to take him all that seriously.

BUT he might change the conversation. That'd be something.

Yes.

Sanders is actually a pain in everybody's left flank.

Myrealana · Apr 30, 2015

I don't want him for President, and I don't see him really giving Hilary a real contest, but I find him more trustworthy and genuine than Clinton.

It's a shame he's so genuinely far off into left field I can't support him governing the country.

William Haskins · Apr 30, 2015

he'll have the credibility and the moral authority (unlike anyone from the republican party) to challenge hillary on her big money conflicts of interest and corporatism.

like i said upthread, he'll force her to dig in her right heel.

Zoombie · Apr 30, 2015

I'd vote for him!

The Otter · May 2, 2015

I'm not a socialist and disagree with a lot of socialist ideas, yet I find myself liking Bernie Sanders and wanting to vote for him anyway. He's something new, and we desperately need fresh voices and fresh perspectives.

I'm meh on Hilary. It would be refreshing to see a woman in the White House, but for me, that's not enough reason to vote for someone who otherwise seems very Establishment and very much what we've been getting for the past...ever.

robeiae · May 2, 2015

The Otter said:
He's something new, and we desperately need fresh voices and fresh perspectives.

Something new?

A) He's 73 and has been in elected office for over 30 years.

B) He's always run as an independent.

C) He's openly self-identified as a socialist for a long time.

This isn't a knock against Sanders, at all. Just to note that he's no more something new than is Ron Paul.

The Otter · May 2, 2015

robeiae said:
Something new?

A) He's 73 and has been in elected office for over 30 years.

B) He's always run as an independent.

C) He's openly self-identified as a socialist for a long time.

This isn't a knock against Sanders, at all. Just to note that he's no more something new than is Ron Paul.

By "something new," I mean something outside the established two-party system that has been in control for a long time. Ron Paul would've been something new too, I'm sure, if by some long shot he actually became President.

I should add the caveat that third party candidates are not automatically better than the alternatives, but still, I feel like things have been locked in the status quo for so long, I'm just thirsty for someone to rock the boat.

nighttimer · May 7, 2015

robeiae said:
Something new?

A) He's 73 and has been in elected office for over 30 years.

B) He's always run as an independent.

C) He's openly self-identified as a socialist for a long time.

This isn't a knock against Sanders, at all. Just to note that he's no more something new than is Ron Paul.

The Otter said:
By "something new," I mean something outside the established two-party system that has been in control for a long time. Ron Paul would've been something new too, I'm sure, if by some long shot he actually became President.

I should add the caveat that third party candidates are not automatically better than the alternatives, but still, I feel like things have been locked in the status quo for so long, I'm just thirsty for someone to rock the boat.

Are you sure Sanders is the man to do that?

When Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders jumped into the 2016 presidential race, he was widely hailed as a far-left socialist who would appeal to the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. A liberal challenge to Hillary Clinton, said Politico. True progressives’ liberal alternative, trumpeted FiveThirtyEight. But before liberal Democrats flock to Sanders, they should remember that the Vermont senator stands firmly to Clinton’s right on one issue of overwhelming importance to the Democratic base: gun control. During his time in Congress, Sanders opposed several moderate gun control bills. He also supported the most odious NRA–backed law in recent memory—one that may block Sandy Hook families from winning a lawsuit against the manufacturer of the gun used to massacre their children.

Sanders, an economic populist and middle-class pugilist, doesn’t talk much about guns on the campaign trail. But his voting record paints the picture of a legislator who is both skeptical of gun control and invested in the interests of gun owners—and manufacturers. In 1993, then-Rep. Sanders voted against the Brady Act, which mandated federal background checks for gun purchasers and restricted felons’ access to firearms. As a senator, Sanders supported bills to allow firearms in checked bags on Amtrak trains and block funding to any foreign aid organization that registered or taxed Americans’ guns. Sanders is dubious that gun control could help prevent gun violence, telling one interviewer after Sandy Hook that “if you passed the strongest gun control legislation tomorrow, I don’t think it will have a profound effect on the tragedies we have seen.” (He has since endorsed some modest gun control measures.)

None of these views are particularly shocking for a Vermont representative: Sanders’ deep-blue state has both high gun ownership and incredibly lax gun laws, and it’s perfectly logical for the senator to support his constituents’ firearms enthusiasm. And a close friend of Sanders once said that the senator “thinks there’s an elitism in the anti-gun movement.”

But Sanders’ vote for a different kind of pro-gun bill is more puzzling—and profoundly disturbing. In 2005, a Republican-dominated Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA). This law doesn’t protect gun owners; it protects gun manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and importers. The PLCAA was the No. 1 legislative priority of the National Rifle Association for years, because it shields gun makers and dealers from most liability when their firearms are used criminally. It is one of the most noxious pieces of pro-gun legislation ever passed. And Bernie Sanders voted for it. (Sanders’ campaign has not replied to a request for comment.)

Before anointing Bernie the Hillary-Slayer, it would be prudent to check the record to see if he's the liberal dream come true he's lauded as.

Amadan · May 7, 2015

Sanders, an economic populist and middle-class pugilist, doesn’t talk much about guns on the campaign trail. But his voting record paints the picture of a legislator who is both skeptical of gun control and invested in the interests of gun owners—and manufacturers.

Gee, maybe I'd vote for him after all...

Zoombie · May 7, 2015

nighttimer said:
Are you sure Sanders is the man to do that?

Before anointing Bernie the Hillary-Slayer, it would be prudent to check the record to see if he's the liberal dream come true he's lauded as.

To be totally honest...I'd be willing to give up on gun control issues for the other things, if only because we're already so hopelessly fucked when it comes to guns, I don't really see a way we can get any worse.

...of course, my imagination isn't boundless...

nighttimer · May 7, 2015

Zoombie said:
To be totally honest...I'd be willing to give up on gun control issues for the other things, if only because we're already so hopelessly fucked when it comes to guns, I don't really see a way we can get any worse.

...of course, my imagination isn't boundless...

Somewhere someone is thinking, plotting, and planning on how to rack up a kill count to make Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech look like a polite tea party.

If you get your car and you're tooling down the freeway at 65mph bumpin' some tunes without a care in the world and the steering wheel falls in your lap and WHAMMO! you end up wrapped around an 18-wheeler, your family can sue the auto manufacturer for building a defective product. Why should gun manufacturers enjoy protection from the damage done by their products?

Bernie the Liberal Beacon says that's fine with him, but it's not so fine for me. I won't say it's a deal-breaker, but I will be waiting for his answer to the Slate article just as soon as he makes one up.

If that doesn't trouble you, Zoombie, it troubles me there's no space between the positions of Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz on protecting gun manufacturers from liability lawsuits.

Zoombie · May 7, 2015

nighttimer said:
If that doesn't trouble you, Zoombie, it troubles me there's no space between the positions of Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz on protecting gun manufacturers from liability lawsuits.

Of course it fucking troubles me.

I just don't know what to do about it.

nighttimer · Jul 20, 2015

There's a pain in Bernie's left flank.

Black Twitter has a bone to pick with Bernie Sanders.

The 2016 lefty darling’s seeming unwillingness to talk about race on the campaign trail is not sitting well with some black activists and observers, and a tense moment turned #BernieSoBlack into a dominant trending topic over the weekend.

Confronted Saturday by protesters at the Netroots Nation conference in Phoenix chanting “Black lives matter!” and “What side are you on?” Sanders was clearly annoyed. “Black lives, of course, matter,” the populist and self-described socialist senator said. “I spent 50 years of my life fighting for civil rights and for dignity…If you don’t want me to be here, that’s OK. I don’t want to outscream people.”

As a senator from Vermont, which is roughly 95 percent white, Sanders has had scant direct experience connecting with black constituents and voters, and he prefers to focus his speeches on income inequality. His campaign events are overwhelmingly white, and his own advisers have conceded—and he himself has acknowledged—that he is still a virtual unknown among African-American voters.

“Basically, the Bernie Sanders campaign has a lot of groundwork to do with regards to building the relationship with black voters,” Terrell Starr, a senior editor at Alternet, told The Daily Beast. “There is still privilege with how white progressives view progressive politics with regards to racial discrimination…And what we saw [Saturday] was an example of that disconnect.”

Black Twitter went after the senator after his Netroots appearance:
If I see one more Bernie acolyte mention that he marched with MLK, I'm going to burn the Internet to the ground. @EdDescault @Eclectablog
— Imani Gandy (@AngryBlackLady) July 19, 2015

(It’s true: Sanders marched with Martin Luther King Jr. in 1963 and was also arrested for protesting in favor of desegregating public schools in Chicago.)

That @AngryBlackLady tweet, sent out to her 35,000 followers, inspired Roderick Morrow—who runs the “Black Guy Who Tips” comedy podcast with his wife, Karen—to launch the mocking hashtag #BernieSoBlack:
#BernieSoBlack HE teaches you how to Cha Cha Slide! https://t.co/3CJorwWn9b
— Rod TBGWT (@rodimusprime) July 19, 2015
I actually heard it was Bernie's idea to march in Selma. MLK wanted to do the march in Hawaii. A destination march. #BernieSoBlack
— Rod TBGWT (@rodimusprime) July 19, 2015
Little known fact Bernie Sanders was actually the one who told John Carlos and Tommie Smith to put up black power fist in 68 #BernieSoBlack
— Rod TBGWT (@rodimusprime) July 19, 2015

#BernieSoBlack quickly began trending on Twitter:
And then there was #BernieSoBlack.
— deray mckesson (@deray) July 19, 2015
#BernieSoBlack he playin' cowbell on #GotToGiveItUp
— Questlove Gomez (@questlove) July 19, 2015

Morrow, who goes by @rodimusprime on Twitter and has more than 11,000 followers, said he was surprised his impromptu hashtag suddenly took off. “I just thought it was a funny joke!” he told The Daily Beast. But he added that his lighthearted jab was rooted in a serious concern about Sanders’s candidacy.

“Every time race is brought up, he pivots to the economy, which obviously a lot of racial disparity comes via economic means, but some of it is just flat out racism and discrimination,” Morrow said. Sanders’s view that “if we had more jobs in Ferguson, this wouldn’t have happened, I’m not sure that is valid. I mean, Mike Brown was on his way to college. It’s not just a jobs thing.”

There's no doubt in my mind a President Sanders would be far more receptive to the Black Lives Matter movement than a President Rubio, but the young people on Black Twitter really aren't impressed by a 73-year-old man bragging he marched with MLK. That's nice, Bernie, but you do know "What Have You Done For Me Lately?" was a hit nearly 30 years old, right?

Sanders is the darling of the White progressive Left and that's cool as far as it goes. He's got some work to do if he expects to broaden his appeal beyond them. Reciting his resume ain't gonna get it.

Zoombie · Jul 20, 2015

Sometimes, I wish I had a ray gun that could combine the best qualities of my favorite candidates into some kind of unholy three headed abomination.

...no wait, I always wish that I had that.

Diana Hignutt · Jul 20, 2015

Zoombie said:
Sometimes, I wish I had a ray gun that could combine the best qualities of my favorite candidates into some kind of unholy three headed abomination.

...no wait, I always wish that I had that.

Which three do you have in mind?

Bernie's In: A Pain in Hillary's Left Flank

poet

'Twas but a dream of thee

Petulantly Penitent

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No Gods No Masters

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Is me.

All Living is Local

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Dragon of the Multiverse

Friendly Neighborhood Mustelid

Touch and go

Friendly Neighborhood Mustelid

No Gods No Masters

Dragon of the Multiverse

No Gods No Masters

Dragon of the Multiverse

No Gods No Masters

Dragon of the Multiverse

Very Tired