This is tough...

G.G. Rebimik · Apr 22, 2015

I know and see in my mind what I want to say, but then the words get jangled and won't come together the way I want.

How does one get over this? Or, can it be gotten over?

Katharine Tree · Apr 22, 2015

This is the trick of writing. Yes, practice will make you better.

Some people do "writing exercises" to get over this before a writing session. You can Google those.

You can analyze favorite passages from your favorite authors, too, to see how they "did it". Though personally . . . I find this to be of limited use. There is a je ne sais quois to great writing that analysis misses.

Personally, I take a "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" approach, and turn off my filters. I don't analyze my words or thoughts, or where the action is going to go. I just let my fingers go, instinctively, and see where they take me. No planning. No analyzing. No shame.

Of course, lots of editing happens later, but that's how I get first drafts down.

Osulagh · Apr 22, 2015

G.G. Rebimik said:
How does one get over this? Or, can it be gotten over?

Ten years of trial and error in rigorous study and application.

Writing is a craft; to master a craft, you must work and rewrork it continuously.

mrsmig · Apr 22, 2015

One learns to edit oneself.

I hope that doesn't sound snarky. You only improve as a writer by trying, then trying again, then trying again. With practice you'll improve, I promise.

Having critted your openings in the Post Your First Three thread, I have to ask: do you ever read what you've written out loud? I find that to be hugely helpful in making the words come together.

Don't get discouraged. If you're feeling that way, I suggest you have a look at this video with some really helpful, inspirational advice from Ira Glass on Storytelling.

ericalynn · Apr 22, 2015

I agree with everyone who says that it's practice. You learn over time how to make the words in your head more closely match the words coming out on the page. The fact that you realize that what you're writing is not exactly what you're trying to say is already helpful--you can at least recognize what doesn't work. Now it's practice until you figure out what does!

G.G. Rebimik · Apr 22, 2015

Great advise all...

gettingby · Apr 22, 2015

The more you do it, the better you will get. But even as you start to improve, you will find writing tough in other area. Writing is not an easy thing for anyone. Another thing is to read. The more you read, the better your writing will get as well. The main thing is that you have to put in the work.

I started writing fiction after a long career in journalism, so my writing was clean for the most part. Still, it took about four months of seriously committing to writing fiction before anything started to actually sound good. And I made fiction writing my full time focus. You have to be patient and you have to work hard. If this is something you really want, you will get better if you put in the work. Just keep in mind that this is something you can get better at. It just all depends how committed you are to the process. Good luck.

Added-- Just wanted to add that in those four months, I wrote a short story every week. That equals 16 stories that ended up being practice stories. I didn't see that while I was doing them, but I remember the first story I wrote that was actually pretty good. Then the next one was, too. Sometimes you really do have to write the stuff that is not so great to be able to write the stuff that is great. There is no quick fix that will make you better.

G.G. Rebimik · Apr 22, 2015

EXT. TRAIL - DAY
Kane dismounts. Sam cries. (his dog who has followed him as he leaves home).

KANE
Sam, my boy...

Sam whimpers and move in and gives loads of kisses hoping he can stay. Kane hugs his boy with all he's got.

KANE
Sam, you must take over for me.

Sam walks away then turns and looks at Kane.

KANE
Go on.

Sam doesn't move.

KANE
I love you, Sam.

Satisfied, Sam reluctantly trots off.

Like this: My current 1880's story, Kane Monroe--a young cowboy KANE (17) leaves his parents Missouri farm seeking revenge against his ancient adversary who crushed the life of he and his wife in a former life. He know's he's 'out there,' has proof and sets off.

Each scene I write out in screenplay form first, which I am trained in. This way I get the picture out of my head the way I 'see' it, then try to work it into novel form and this is what separates the 'writers' from the peasants (me).

I want to try and tell it 10 different ways and here is where I run into trouble....

How do you approach each scene and write it?

The Ira Glass vids were very helpful and I know it takes a long time...a true statement for sure.

blacbird · Apr 22, 2015

Do you actually read novels in this genre?

caw

atombaby · Apr 22, 2015

G.G. Rebimik said:
Each scene I write out in screenplay form first, which I am trained in. This way I get the picture out of my head the way I 'see' it, then try to work it into novel form and this is what separates the 'writers' from the peasants (me).

I want to try and tell it 10 different ways and here is where I run into trouble....

How do you approach each scene and write it?

The Ira Glass vids were very helpful and I know it takes a long time...a true statement for sure.

You have to flesh it out, give it feeling. Screenwriting is good for getting the required dialogue and plot points down, but it's too cut and dry for novel form. Really get into your characters head and the setting. I know you see the scene in your head, but you have to bring the reader into the scene with you.

Think of what is most important for you to get across to the reader. As in your example, Sam is looking for Kane's love and approval, so work that into the scene. Does Kane know Sam's desire? What is Kane fighting internally? Is Sam playing coy? Is he begging or demanding? Get deeper and you will be creating that depth, and finding your writing voice while you're at it. Good luck!

dondomat · Apr 22, 2015

A half-hour exercise will fix this. Open on your computer a novel, and open word documents which you've titled:
1. "People interior and exterior" (this is thoughts, movement, body language)
2. "landscape and weather"
3. "buildings interior and exterior"
For the duration of a half hour copy/paste the relevant bits from the opened novel into the three documents. After the thirty minutes, you can see, out of context (which otherwise disguises them), the prose bits which serve to flesh out the skeleton of the story.
If you really want to make it visual--copy and paste into a fourth document the whole text that you've been dissecting for that half hour, and color code these three categories.
It all instantly comes into focus, and from then on you know how it's done by sucessful authors, and building on that you develop your own style.
Just have to think a bit more practically about these things, and fix them immediately, instead of spending a decade with various writing workshops and waiting for stuff to happen by its own. Stuff will indeed happen by its own but that's if you're cool with agonising years of waiting.

Katharine Tree · Apr 22, 2015

I am horribly afraid that dondomat is yanking our collective chains, but . . . that does actually sound like a damned informative exercise to go through.

I might try it.

CathleenT · Apr 22, 2015

Don't worry about it too much at the draft stage, but in revision, I'd try something like this. Aim for stronger verbs.

G.G. Rebimik said:
EXT. TRAIL - DAY
Kane dismounts. Sam cries. (his dog who has followed him as he leaves home).

KANE
Sam, my boy...

Sam whimpers and move in and gives loads of kisses hoping he can stay. Kane hugs his boy with all he's got. (Moves and gives are both rather common verbs. It can all be replaced by Sam licking his face, which is less common and brings a sharper mental imagae, imo.)

KANE
Sam, you must take over for me.

Sam walks away then turns and looks at Kane. (Sam slinks off, then pauses, before hitting Kane with his best pleading look (or expression, depending on how often you've used look lately)).

KANE
Go on.

Sam doesn't move. (Sam wags his tail.)

KANE
I love you, Sam.

Satisfied, Sam ~~reluctantly~~ trots off.

Anyway, idk what to tell you about the screenplay thing. Dondomat's exercise sounded like it might be fairly productive. I'd think in terms of making the setting and the emotional context clear. Kane might laugh before he tells Sam he loves him, or sigh, although you have to watch those two because they're way overused. Ration yourself on them. Kane could also stifle a groan, point, or shake his head. Just don't have him do a bunch of them at once.

So does this happen on a windswept prairie, in a forest, or a farm in Ohio?

Is Kane's family around anywhere? What are they doing? Where's the conflict in the scene? Are you building toward that? Is he outside because his mom's griping about all the bugs in their soddy home, and if he has to listen to it one more time, he'll scream? Or is his dad counting on him to get a stake fence up so the the roaming cattle don't get into their corn again?

These aren't questions you need to answer for me, or anything like that. But if you can ask yourself questions about the scene, that might get you moving in the direction of fleshing it out.

And once you do all that, after you're done and read it through, you'll still probably shake your head at the thing and have to try to make it better for a few passes. And then you can trade with a beta, and they can help you find your weaknesses hiding in your blind spots.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

You can do it. Most days, I think I can, too. Not all of them, though. I think that's part of being a writer, too.

G.G. Rebimik · Apr 22, 2015

dondomat said:
A half-hour exercise will fix this. Open on your computer a novel, and open word documents which you've titled:
1. "People interior and exterior" (this is thoughts, movement, body language)
2. "landscape and weather"
3. "buildings interior and exterior"
For the duration of a half hour copy/paste the relevant bits from the opened novel into the three documents. After the thirty minutes, you can see, out of context (which otherwise disguises them), the prose bits which serve to flesh out the skeleton of the story.
If you really want to make it visual--copy and paste into a fourth document the whole text that you've been dissecting for that half hour, and color code these three categories.
It all instantly comes into focus, and from then on you know how it's done by sucessful authors, and building on that you develop your own style.
Just have to think a bit more practically about these things, and fix them immediately, instead of spending a decade with various writing workshops and waiting for stuff to happen by its own. Stuff will indeed happen by its own but that's if you're cool with agonising years of waiting.

Don, whatever you are smoking, I want some.

dondomat · Apr 22, 2015

Katharine Tree said:
I am horribly afraid that dondomat is yanking our collective chains, but . . . that does actually sound like a damned informative exercise to go through.

I might try it.

G.G. Rebimik said:
Don, whatever you are smoking, I want some.

The gods of writing have been kind enough to let us be born in a time of Astounding Technologies From Beyond the Future! so almost everything is easier now, if one really wants to go the way of fast self-improvement.

...Copy/paste the opening and closing paragraphs of the first 10-15 chapters of a favorite book into a separate document, and that's worth a hundred articles, textbooks, and courses on "opening hooks", "cliffhangers", and such.

Color-code those same chapters to see the colored sections expand and contract and merge and fragment as the rhythm of the story passes through quiet and exciting scenes and builds momentum, and by tomorrow you basically know 80% of what you need, and the remaining 20% will come from continuous writing and work with editors once that time comes.

G.G. Rebimik · Apr 23, 2015

gettingby said:
The more you do it, the better you will get. But even as you start to improve, you will find writing tough in other area. Writing is not an easy thing for anyone. Another thing is to read. The more you read, the better your writing will get as well. The main thing is that you have to put in the work.

I started writing fiction after a long career in journalism, so my writing was clean for the most part. Still, it took about four months of seriously committing to writing fiction before anything started to actually sound good. And I made fiction writing my full time focus. You have to be patient and you have to work hard. If this is something you really want, you will get better if you put in the work. Just keep in mind that this is something you can get better at. It just all depends how committed you are to the process. Good luck.

Added-- Just wanted to add that in those four months, I wrote a short story every week. That equals 16 stories that ended up being practice stories. I didn't see that while I was doing them, but I remember the first story I wrote that was actually pretty good. Then the next one was, too. Sometimes you really do have to write the stuff that is not so great to be able to write the stuff that is great. There is no quick fix that will make you better.

Thanks Get - good advice - one can get better by really working at it...

Orianna2000 · Apr 27, 2015

Definitely--the more you write, the better you'll get. It's like any skill: first, you have to learn the basic techniques, and then you have to practice, practice, practice! Get some books on dialogue, descriptions, characterization, plotting, and so forth. Read them, then write something, applying what you've just learned. Read some more. Write some more.

I would caution against starting your novels as screenplays. Yes, it might help you with dialogue and pacing the scene, but you run the risk of losing all emotional perspective. A story needs to be told from someone's POV--you're seeing what happens through their eyes, hearing the story being told with their voice. With a screenplay, you're only getting the actions and dialogue, there's no descriptions or emotion.

See, a screenplay lacks depth and personality because it's relying on actors to bring emotion to the scene. But you don't have that luxury. You have to provide descriptions that evoke an emotional response, and you have to get inside the MC's head, to show what he's thinking and feeling. It's a hard task, but with practice, it will get easier. (Promise!)

jaksen · Apr 27, 2015

This isn't meant to be cruel, but not everyone is meant to be, or can be, or will be, a writer. However, you're obviously creative and want to express yourself, so yes, you can work, practice, read, practice some more, take advice, etc., and you may eventually become a writer.

Or maybe there is another avenue for your creativity. You say you can see these scenes. You probably feel them as well, or the emotional content in them. Can you draw? If so, have you considered a graphic novel, or a novel with some graphics/pictures in them? You can therefore transform what you 'see' into pictures for us, your reading audience, to see and enjoy.

If you don't see yourself doing that, there's always the possibility of working with a partner, an artist, who transforms your ideas into art, or comics, or graphic art, and you supply the dialogue and other written elements that go into creating a story.

Just a thought.

This is tough...

G.G. Rebimik

Write? I can barely read...

Katharine Tree

Þæt wæs god cyning

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.

mrsmig

Write. Write. Writey Write Write.

ericalynn

G.G. Rebimik

Write? I can barely read...

gettingby

G.G. Rebimik

Write? I can barely read...

blacbird

atombaby

nice & cynical

dondomat

Katharine Tree

Þæt wæs god cyning

CathleenT

I write

G.G. Rebimik

Write? I can barely read...

dondomat

G.G. Rebimik

Write? I can barely read...

Orianna2000

Freelance Writer

jaksen

Caped Codder