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Maze Runner
04-12-2015, 10:18 PM
It's finally going to happen. Anybody interested? I'd lost most of my enthusiasm for boxing until Manny got me interested again. Besides being a great fighter-I love his busy, mobile style from all angles-his personality is attractive in the ring. To me, he looks like there's nowhere he'd rather be. I often snub these pay-per-view things, after being disappointed too many times, but I'll buy this one.

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/12355361/floyd-mayweather-announces-fight-manny-pacquiao-set-2

Mike Tyson likes Pac:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2395474-mike-tyson-casts-floyd-mayweather-vs-manny-pacquiao-fight-prediction

How they did with the same opponents:

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/451949/sports/boxing/infographic-how-manny-pacquiao-floyd-mayweather-have-fared-against-common-opponents

Some boyhood Pac footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AX_qVZclZE

Pac and Mayweather vs. Mosley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkN-7oiQnVQ

Pac and Mayweather vs. Cotto:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr42qyuSi1g

Pac's record: http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=6129&cat=boxer

Floyd's: http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?cat=boxer&human_id=352

Some experts ring in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcIvlRBATkQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGAoMtOsGyk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gSrNN7oxPM

Any predictions? I think as long as Manny's able to move and connect, he wins. If he's all over the ring, as he is at his best, I think he hands Floyd his first loss by way of a TKO in the late rounds.

mirandashell
04-12-2015, 10:29 PM
Hold on.... how old are these two?

Maze Runner
04-12-2015, 10:30 PM
Manny's 36 and Floyd's 38. Manny's style is a demanding one.

mirandashell
04-12-2015, 10:31 PM
Both 36.

Where are all the young fighters?

I also lost interest in boxing a few years ago. This kind of thing was one of the reasons why.

Maze Runner
04-12-2015, 10:32 PM
Yeah, but 36 doesn't mean what it used to. These guys will show up in shape. There still both great fighters and this will be a great fight.

Maze Runner
04-12-2015, 11:02 PM
Juan Manuel Marquez, about a minute in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU2KbwazKB4

de la hoya: "If he (Manny) has the legs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxEmMCQwHLc

Evander Holyfield- Bernard Hopkins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqu6U-JT0Tg

Maze Runner
04-12-2015, 11:31 PM
Ricky Hatton-good breakdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpRy1a36K7A

Maze Runner
04-13-2015, 12:02 AM
Some trainers weigh in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nITQNO2NVXw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tht6zoqbmsE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmH8YNPRKk0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUNMEzDiyg

Dissecting Tyson's prediction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNMtP3aMZs4

robeiae
04-14-2015, 01:47 AM
I'm interested, but not $100 interested. The fight will make an obscene amount of money and I seriously doubt it will live up to expectations. I suspect it will turn in to a snooze-fest (I really hope I'm wrong).

It's a shame it's taken this long to make it happen. Should have been years ago.

Maze Runner
04-14-2015, 06:54 AM
Well, I'd be surprised, but I guess it could happen. Probably best to skip it, but I'm a slow learner.

rugcat
04-14-2015, 08:00 AM
I'm not that interested.

I am sure they'll both be in great shape, but let's face it, they're both on the downside of their careers. They certainly have enough left to take on and beat most any ordinary, if younger fighter. It's not like they're washed up.

But a fight between the two of them, both in their prime, would have been something to behold.

Right now I think the only thing that will really be established is which one of them has aged the better.

Maze Runner
04-14-2015, 09:57 AM
I've just been watching these fights. Both from about a year ago. The thing is, on paper this looks like a great fight. It should have happened five years ago and every year since, but t's still a great match-up. You have a busy offensive fighter and an elusive defensive fighter. You only have two guys, so if one doesn't show up or it's just a bad matchup then you have a bad fight. That's one of the frustrating things about it. That and all the other BS. Will they both show up? Who knows? I would think so. And if they do you're gonna see a good fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CPs8wJPelk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU_gOL2xgCM

robeiae
04-14-2015, 04:40 PM
It will be interesting to see if Mayweather bothers to make weight. I suspect he won't.

blacbird
04-17-2015, 07:56 AM
I'm going with Manny. Interesting that Mike Tyson feels the same. I'm reminded of a quote from Tyson, uttered before one of his fights back when he was in his prime. I don't recall who the opponent was, but when he was interviewed pre-fight he made a big deal of having a "plan" for fighting Tyson. When Tyson was told about that comment, he said (paraphrased a bit, because I don't have the exact wording): "A plan is okay, until you get hit in the face."

Tyson knocked him out, early.

caw

WildcatJim2112
04-17-2015, 08:16 AM
I hope Manny takes Mayweather down.

Maze Runner
04-17-2015, 08:17 AM
Tyson was fun to watch, in and out of the ring. The thing about Floyd is he's such a smart boxer. He has that thing Ali had, he can almost make himself (invisible) in the ring. Just a sixth sense that allows him to feel his guy's next movement, his indication of a movement. It will be interesting to see if Floyd can respond to the kind of non-stop from all different angles Manny's capable of. Manny's style is physically demanding. If age is going to be a factor in this fight, Manny is probably more likely to show it. I'm a little worried about it actually.

I'll almost always watch Pacquiao fight. The times he doesn't show up not only in good shape, but make a Herculean effort are rare.

Deepthought
04-18-2015, 08:04 AM
Being a boxer myself, this is certainly something I want to see. (Be going to a friend's house to watch it, I usually watch free online streams though). I see Mayweather winning a unanimous decision. Pac is susceptible to right hand lead, especially coming in. I see the early rounds being competitive, with Mayweather getting Pac's timing down as it goes on, and then dominating; that is, a typical Mayweather fight. Angles and such are one thing, but the moment before that angle, Pac leaves himself open. Additionally, Mayweather has the size advantage, which is a big advantage for him.

Maze Runner
04-18-2015, 09:08 PM
Floyd's got the hand speed to do it, too. Plus he's got the reach advantage. I think I know that moment you're talking about. It's hard for me to imagine Manny winning on points, so he'll have to try to get to Floyd, right? Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. I guess a lot of people are--it's been a long time comin'.

I haven't seen as much of Floyd as I have Manny, but from what I've seen, he's incredibly hard to hit. Even when you've got him cornered. It's great to get a boxer's take on this. Pop in after the fight if you would. By the way, the boxer in your avatar is my all time favorite. Thanks.

Deepthought
04-18-2015, 09:44 PM
Floyd's got the hand speed to do it, too. Plus he's got the reach advantage. I think I know that moment you're talking about. It's hard for me to imagine Manny winning on points, so he'll have to try to get to Floyd, right? Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. I guess a lot of people are--it's been a long time comin'.

I haven't seen as much of Floyd as I have Manny, but from what I've seen, he's incredibly hard to hit. Even when you've got him cornered. It's great to get a boxer's take on this. Pop in after the fight if you would. By the way, the boxer in your avatar is my all time favorite. Thanks.

Yeah, I think Manny will have to use his power and endurance to get May. The thing is, even if a boxer has good or even great endurance, punch output goes down if they get countered, as they have to pick their shots.

Yes, Mayweather is incredible form a technical standpoint. He does everything the way it is meant to be done, no bad habits. What is particularly amazing to me is his economy of movement and lack of 'rhythm'- that is, he doesn't give cues to what he will throw, nor does he have a 'beat' to his movements, making it difficult to respond to his movements. But that economy of movement, even lack of waste steps, lets him fight many rounds without tiring too much. Sure, I'll be here post-fight. My trainer (60 years old, still spars with us young guys, fought some famous guys, haha) thinks Mayweather will win, possibly even KO Manny if he's 'reckless'. I can't believe that, but he is right a lot of the time, huh. And Ali was just crazy, that kind of defense was unbelievable.

ResearchGuy
04-22-2015, 07:09 PM
I expect a disputed decision for Floyd, in an ugly fight with lots of interference from ref Kenny Bayless.

--Ken

robeiae
04-22-2015, 07:25 PM
'Course, the actual contract for the fight still (http://www.si.com/boxing/2015/04/22/floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-contract) hasn't been signed...

Maze Runner
04-22-2015, 09:39 PM
Yeah, I think Manny will have to use his power and endurance to get May. The thing is, even if a boxer has good or even great endurance, punch output goes down if they get countered, as they have to pick their shots.

Yes, Mayweather is incredible form a technical standpoint. He does everything the way it is meant to be done, no bad habits. What is particularly amazing to me is his economy of movement and lack of 'rhythm'- that is, he doesn't give cues to what he will throw, nor does he have a 'beat' to his movements, making it difficult to respond to his movements. But that economy of movement, even lack of waste steps, lets him fight many rounds without tiring too much. Sure, I'll be here post-fight. My trainer (60 years old, still spars with us young guys, fought some famous guys, haha) thinks Mayweather will win, possibly even KO Manny if he's 'reckless'. I can't believe that, but he is right a lot of the time, huh. And Ali was just crazy, that kind of defense was unbelievable.

You know, it's also occurred to me that Floyd could knock him out. After all, Manny will be coming at him, and as you say, that's when he could get caught with a big shot.


I expect a disputed decision for Floyd, in an ugly fight with lots of interference from ref Kenny Bayless.

--Ken

Hard not to see this as a strong possibility. I just hope that if it does go to the cards, we're not all left with a bad taste in our mouths, as in after the first Pac/Bradley fight. Hardly a rare occurrence in the boxing world.


'Course, the actual contract for the fight still (http://www.si.com/boxing/2015/04/22/floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-contract) hasn't been signed...

Bite your tongue.

robeiae
04-22-2015, 11:59 PM
Manny can knock Floyd out. And Floyd can knock Manny out.

The problem is, Floyd has no reason to engage. If he fights defensive the whole time and Manny can't get any really big shots, Floyd wins. A boring fight--which is likely a decision for Floyd--means Floyd stays at the top, still undefeated. I'm sure in his mind he doesn't have to prove jack. If he ekes out a boring decision, the line will be "Manny couldn't beat me, no one can beat me," and there's not much anyone can say in response.

Too bad Maidana didn't drop the sucker...

Maze Runner
04-23-2015, 12:39 AM
That scenario, Rob, would be a boring fight. And we've all seen fights that play out just that way. The difference here, I hope, is that Manny will be able to find a way in and connect, and so Floyd will have to engage. I'll make a promise though, to you and to myself, that if you end up right on this I'll never buy another fight--Pac's or not.

Deepthought
04-23-2015, 01:53 AM
I think it will be a typical 'boring' Mayweather fight as well (I like technical boxing like that, so it isn't boring for me. But yeah) There are indications that Mayweather will be going for a KO perhaps through a counter, not aggressiveness. But that might just be in my head, due to lack of information. If you don't buy PPV's, Maize, there's always free streams :)

Maze Runner
04-23-2015, 04:11 AM
Oh, no! Not you too! Hey, could be just wishful thinking on my part. Maybe I've just bought into the hype. Mayweather is not the most exciting guy to watch, like a lot of defensive fighters, but I figure Manny will do everything he can to make it a fight. Maybe even at that he won't be able to make it a thrilling fight.

Yeah, I do the stream thing when my NFL team's games aren't shown out here. But the quality isn't the best. I just make it a habit to pay for Manny's fights, 'cause he's usually such a crowdpleaser.

Deepthought
04-23-2015, 09:54 PM
Oh, no! Not you too! Hey, could be just wishful thinking on my part. Maybe I've just bought into the hype. Mayweather is not the most exciting guy to watch, like a lot of defensive fighters, but I figure Manny will do everything he can to make it a fight. Maybe even at that he won't be able to make it a thrilling fight.

Yeah, I do the stream thing when my NFL team's games aren't shown out here. But the quality isn't the best. I just make it a habit to pay for Manny's fights, 'cause he's usually such a crowdpleaser.

Well, there is a tendency for it to be that way, although the Maidana and Cotto fights were pretty exciting for a Mayweather bout. It may be an exciting fight. I still have hope.

rugcat
04-28-2015, 11:22 PM
Here is a long but interesting article from ESPN about the upcoming fight, and about boxing and its history in general.

Some very good observations in it.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12749248/floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-fight-boxing-demise

Maze Runner
04-29-2015, 01:07 AM
Thanks for linking that article. There's a line in the Robert De Niro movie, Night and the City, where an ex pug played by Jack Warden says, "Boxing's always been a poor man's out."

I've known quite a few pro boxers. I grew up around some great ones, some champs, some contenders, and a lot whom nobody on this forum would have ever heard of--and they had all, almost to a man, grown up poor. Who'd want to step into that ring on a pro level that didn't need the money? The glory days of boxing came just after WWII when a lot of guys came back from the war and needed to make a buck.

If you're really going to enjoy the sport as a spectator, it requires that you're not a casual viewer. You have to understand the style nuances, you have to have an eye for the psychology that's in play, and you have to have some context--knowing where both boys have been and how that will affect the fight you're watching. The main reason why my interest in boxing has waned is because I found that I'd have to watch quite a few before I found one for the ages--and you never knew where that great fight would come from--it could as easily be unknowns on the Spanish channel who delivered it as household names.

Just have to add that "great fight" is relative and subjective.

What I believe, though I have no proof of it, is that contrary to what a lot of casual fans think (I am admittedly at this time a casual fan) there are probably more great fighters today, not less. The technique that you are likely to see, whether you've heard of the two guys or not, has evolved to the point that it's rare to see real sloppy technique--at least by my eyes and reference. In the Heavyweight division, (my least favorite weight class) is where you can still see sloppy technique because "banging" is so much more important in that class.

Corruption--the mafia, Carbo and Palermo had boxing in a choke hold into the days of Ali. No regulation to speak of, no pension, the alphabet divisions--used to be eight weight classes, one champ in each--now you've got I don't know how many "leagues", I don't know how many weight classes and a champ on top of each pile. I'm sure the reasoning behind this was that if you could bill a fight as a championship bout you could make more money.

For anyone who's interested, a good friend of mine, Springs Toledo has published a book called The Gods of War that examines the sport in historical and metaphorical context--Springs is a thinking guy.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Gods-War-Springs-Toledo/dp/0954392450

My interest in boxing has waned over the years, but I will say that when you get a good fight, when the styles match up, when both fighters really need the win, for me there is no sport that offers the same kind of drama and excitement that boxing does.

robeiae
04-29-2015, 04:18 AM
Badminton?

Maze Runner
04-30-2015, 12:11 AM
Badminton?

Hey, d'you ever get nailed in the eye by a birdie? Heavy side first? No, I can't recall watching a badminton match and being enthralled, but I have watched tennis and been caught up in the drama. NFL football is probably my favorite sport these days--

Deepthought
05-03-2015, 09:21 AM
Well, Mayweather won handily. Although, Manny did get a few good shots in and won some rounds. He didn't do bad at all.

I think too many casual fans overplay the "undefeated" aspect. Many boxers were undefeated in their careers; Julio Caesar Chavez had an incredible run of 89 wins without a single loss. But it is about competition, really. I think what Ali did, fighting and dominating with such ease in the 60's (and fighting often), then in his second run in the 70's, coming out on top even after losing many of his gifts, is the kind of thing that is much more indicative of how good a boxer is. What Mayweather does is certainly great, but he never faced anyone in that weight class that can be truly defined as great. Manny is naturally at a much lower weight class. But that isn't their fault, as they did fight the best fighters of their time. (Well, maybe not Paul Williams, but anyways...)

Maze Runner
05-03-2015, 10:13 AM
Thanks for checking in Deepthought. Well, I have to say that I'm disappointed. I really thought Manny would force Mayweather into a fight. Early on, especially in the 4th round and then was it in the 6th? Manny was forcing the fight and getting some good shots in, and there was one point where Floyd looked concerned, but instead of turning it up Manny seemed to ease it up and never got the momentum back.

What I don't understand is why he was coming in on a straight line. If that was more a failure in strategy or implementation. Before one of the early rounds, Freddie was telling him to use his feet, but the very next round he was coming in in a straight line again. I don't know, I expected Manny to leave it in the ring tonight and he didn't. He was going to have to fight the fight of his life, and he didn't. Floyd does what he has to do to win. He's one of the smartest fighters you'll ever see, but he's not very exciting because he doesn't take a risk he doesn't have to take.

I was hoping I wouldn't be left with a bad taste in my mouth, but I was.

Thewitt
05-03-2015, 12:16 PM
Boring fight. Over-hyped.

Manny needed to knock Mayweather out, but he apparently forgot that...

Mayweather simply used his reach advantage to connect more with Manny, scoring the needed points for a win.

He was hurt a few times, but Manny was not able to close. Too bad, because I would have loved to see him KO "Money" for once.

Too much money paid out for this one... OMG.

robeiae
05-03-2015, 04:10 PM
Manny needed to knock Mayweather out, but he apparently forgot that...

Mayweather simply used his reach advantage to connect more with Manny, scoring the needed points for a win.


No, Manny knew what he had to do. It's just not an easy thing, particularly at this stage of Manny's career. Mayweather is good--great, actually--at this kind of fight.

And this is the way most Mayweather fights go, for close to a decade now. People forget.

Maidana was an aberration for Mayweather. For whatever reason, I don't think Mayweather realized what Maidana was capable of, how nasty he could be in the ring. And to Mayweather's credit, he gave Maidana a rematch, even though there was some real risk in that, imo. I can't stand Mayweather, personally, but that was more than a little bit gutsy.

Regardless, the point is that this was a very typical Mayweather fight. People paid big bucks in the hopes they might see something special. But it was always a sucker's bet, imo.

Deepthought
05-03-2015, 05:42 PM
I think that the reason Manny did not use his feet and angles more was because it gave more opportunity for Mayweather to counter them. On the other hand,if Manny went in a straight line with his hands up, he would not get hit with big counters. Manny just did not take the risk. At least, that's how I see it.

What people expected Manny to do, Maidana pulled it off. He is a somewhat limited fighter in what he does, but what he does do, no one else does better. I think size played a role, Maidana is basically a big human brick that just did not care what was thrown at him; he just pushed the pace. His relentlessness let him push forward, taking Mayweather's best shots. He knew he was going to get hit, but he incorporated that aspect into his plan. In that sense, it was kind of like Hagler knowing he was going to get hit by Hearns' right, but winning in spite of it.

Although Mayweather is officially undefeated, I believe there is one fight in his professional career that he should have lost: Jose Luis Castillo 1. Castillo gave him a good fight and utilized infighting effectively. I can't remember too much of it as I watched it a while ago, but it is one of those controversial bouts. Mayweather won the rematch.

Maze Runner
05-03-2015, 08:44 PM
I think it did come down to what risk Manny was willing to take--Is that what you meant, Deep, in one of your posts where you said that Manny leaves himself open at times?

Do you buy what Manny and Freddie were saying in the post fight about Manny's bad right shoulder going into the fight? Someone asked him why he would pull up after he'd thrown a combo, and Manny said something to the effect that it was because he had pain.

Maze Runner
05-03-2015, 09:04 PM
Anyway, I'm not ashamed to admit that I expected more of a fight--highest grossing fight in boxing history, so no shortage of suckers last night.

Might have been a different fight a few years ago, but who knows? I was a little disappointed that Manny didn't leave it all in the ring, but he has been a warrior in his career--maybe he's got no warrior left in him. It happens to all of us sooner or later. I hope he hangs 'em up.

Deepthought
05-05-2015, 05:49 AM
I think it did come down to what risk Manny was willing to take--Is that what you meant, Deep, in one of your posts where you said that Manny leaves himself open at times?

Do you buy what Manny and Freddie were saying in the post fight about Manny's bad right shoulder going into the fight? Someone asked him why he would pull up after he'd thrown a combo, and Manny said something to the effect that it was because he had pain.

Yes. In that fight, if you look at the flurries Manny did, he did not pull his hands back in position. This is an elementary mistake. He had been able to get away woth it for a while due to his speed and ferocity, but he did get caught sometimes. I think he just was not willing to take that risk.

I can believe that he had shoulder trouble. It happens. I don't think the end result would have been different though.

I think it would have been a much better fight had it happened years ago. I think most fans bought into the hype and huge promotion. But when I saw the earlier fight between Manny and Bradley, even in the win in the rematch, I thought Manny really struggled and would have little hope in beating May at that point. He was past it. He should hang them up, he has built an amazing legacy.

robeiae
05-05-2015, 04:55 PM
I heard a rumor that Calzaghe is going to come out of retirement and fight Mayweather at the end of the year...

robjvargas
05-05-2015, 06:44 PM
Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2453917-manny-pacquiao-injury-update-pac-man-to-undergo-surgery-for-tear-in-shoulder) says Manny's going in for surgery on his shoulder. As the story suggests, I think that's the final nail on the coffin burying the idea of a rematch (although stranger things have happened).

Deepthought
05-05-2015, 10:48 PM
http://www.silive.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/teddy_atlas_weighs_in_on_maywe.html

Some decent points here.

robjvargas
05-05-2015, 11:25 PM
My local news (http://abc7chicago.com/sports/manny-pacquiao-could-face-disciplinary-action-for-undisclosed-injury/697576/) is reporting that Manny Pacquiao could face disciplinary action.



Manny Pacquiao could face disciplinary action from Nevada boxing officials for failing to disclose a shoulder injury before his fight with Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Nevada Athletic Commission chairman Francisco Aguilar said Monday that the state attorney general's office will look at why Pacquiao checked "no" a day before the fight on a commission questionnaire asking whether he had a shoulder injury.
It's not hard to think up reasons to check that box, I suppose. 100 million of 'em.

BenPanced
05-06-2015, 04:00 PM
Fight fans sue Pacquiao over injured shoulder (http://centurylink.net/news/read/article/afp-fight_fans_sue_pacquiao_over_injury-afp)


According to court documents available online, the lawsuit claims that when plaintiffs Stephane Vanel and Kami Rahbaran -- who bought tickets, forked out pay per view fees or bet on the fight -- the defendants "knew and had full knowledge and information that defendant Pacquiao had been seriously injured and was suffering from a torn rotator cuff."

ResearchGuy
05-06-2015, 09:13 PM
Already, someone has to be working on an epic book about this fight, what came before, what is following, and the wheels within wheels.

Suggested title: Hype of the Century!

--Ken

robjvargas
05-06-2015, 09:25 PM
Already, someone has to be working on an epic book about this fight, what came before, what is following, and the wheels within wheels.

Suggested title: Hype of the Century!

--Ken

Or, Much Ado About Nothing

robeiae
05-12-2015, 06:00 PM
Watched the Alvarez-Kirkland fight this weekend, preceded by the repeat of Mayweather-Pacquiao. What a difference. Three rounds of nonstop action versus twelve rounds of footwork.

Anyway, I see where Mayweather has squashed any ideas of a rematch (http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/12843122/floyd-mayweather-changes-mind-says-not-grant-manny-pacquiao-rematch). He's still under contract for one more fight. I can't see who his opponent might be. There's a little talk about Golovkin, but that's ridiculous imo. No way is Mayweather going to risk his undefeated status against a guy like that. Amir Khan looks to be a possibility. Which I think is a cakewalk for Mayweather. And another boring fight. So it goes.

ResearchGuy
05-12-2015, 09:48 PM
FWIW, I have watched the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight four times, so far. It was what I expected: a Mayweather fight. Less offense -- or less effective, anyway -- from Pacman, but that's what happens with Mayweather's defensive techniques. As far as I am concerned, there was nothing wrong with Manny's right shoulder during that fight -- at least nothing out of the ordinary for a fighter (they all battle injuries). The post-facto excuse-making was the disappointment.

--Ken