My first novel was a christian post-apocalyptic redemption story.

Prankster Bob · Mar 8, 2015

I was told that Christian books sell pretty well and that I should try to get it published, but some of the stuff I wrote in the novel are pretty blasphemous. I say that God made an essential mistake that led to the end of existence, when darkness swept over the universe and consumed everything.

I tried to illustrate the mistake by using this image with the universe being a steak, and God just bit off the remotest corner of the steak and tried to chew it up. What that means is that the Christian view of God has God taking a great interest in the lives of people, so it assumes that this God figure is focused on our level of reality rather than the universal level.

If God is omnipotent, omnipresent, all-knowing, then that seems like it would exist on the universal level. The mistake God made, as the early-Christian belief system has it, is focusing on such a small part of the universe, and so he lets the rest of the universe rot.

Obviously it's not a perfect theory. The novel still uses people as the chess pieces of God in his attempt to bring the realization of his mistake into the universe to try to bring light back. There are two people he creates to share this idea and bring it together, and the novel follows the journey of the man, William.

And I didn't fully understand what I was writing when I wrote it, so now with my more mature perspective I want to go back over the novel and revise it again. If I do that then I think I'd find the motivation to try to get it published.

I'm writing science fiction right now and even that is deeply spiritual. Three of my characters are avatars of the Hindu trinity, but I guess that's a whole other story.

Gravity · Mar 9, 2015

Bob, no CBA house will touch this. Trust me. Your best bet is the general market.

Prankster Bob · Mar 9, 2015

I'm thinking if I can get my science fiction published then I can spring it on a speculative fiction publisher.

Deb Kinnard · Mar 10, 2015

Yes, you can; were John's remark not completely indicative of the truth, you might've sent it to Marcher Lord. They're publishers of Christian SF/fantasy but as above, they wouldn't touch it or your Hindu-avatar tale.

Some things, though inherently Christian or Christian-based, won't fly in the tight-and-tightening Christian commercial market. IMO it's getting more restrictive, not less.

Prankster Bob · Mar 10, 2015

I was raised a Catholic so that was the form of Christianity I was taught, and I basically connected pleasure to sin so I became an ascetic. I had a personal growth when I embraced hedonism, and then I swung back to the middle.

But listen to this. The ancient Hebrews used this holy anointing oil on the ark of the covenant, and it was made with something called kaneh-bosem. There is debate about whether than actually refers to cannabis, but when you study the words it's hard to deny. Plus you had the fact that in Jesus's time, all the peasants wore hempen clothes, so cannabis was a vital part of the culture. I like to think Jesus used this anointing oil on his followers.

But the Catholics are so focused on guilt, like they're scared that if they step out of line they'll invoke God's wrath. But that's entirely egocentric. God would have to exist on the universal level, so God doesn't figure into our daily lives. I believe in the holy spirit, or what I think would be more accurately described as the divine human spirit. But again, the holy spirit doesn't judge you. Only you judge you.

Imagine if you will, you die and go to heaven and at the Pearly Gates, the first thing he asks you is, did you ever try those magic mushrooms?

Why the hell do you think God created magic mushrooms? Why do you think he created marijuana? We're supposed to liberate our minds from the system of oppression set up by humans. We can connect with the spiritual realm through something as simple as meditation.

What this means is you need to stop asking for things, stop praying for help. Still your mind and learn to be receptive to the energy of the spiritual realm. When Jesus said love your neighbor, he (or the author) used the term agape. This is spiritual love, so you are meant to develop your own connection to the spiritual realm so that you can connect with others through it and feel a sense of community. You can be surrounded by bodies and feel alone, but if you surround yourself with spirits, I guarantee you will not feel alone.

Most of the issues with Christian dogma is a result of the Catholic Church being a human system of oppression for centuries, over a millennium. The list of banned books only ended back in the 1960s. They knew they could control people by keeping them ignorant, so that's what they did.

We need to free ourselves from the oppressive teachings of the Church and find spiritual harmony in society.

cornflake · Mar 10, 2015

Prankster Bob said:
I was raised a Catholic so that was the form of Christianity I was taught, and I basically connected pleasure to sin so I became an ascetic. I had a personal growth when I embraced hedonism, and then I swung back to the middle.

But listen to this. The ancient Hebrews used this holy anointing oil on the ark of the covenant, and it was made with something called kaneh-bosem. There is debate about whether than actually refers to cannabis, but when you study the words it's hard to deny. Plus you had the fact that in Jesus's time, all the peasants wore hempen clothes, so cannabis was a vital part of the culture. I like to think Jesus used this anointing oil on his followers.

But the Catholics are so focused on guilt, like they're scared that if they step out of line they'll invoke God's wrath. But that's entirely egocentric. God would have to exist on the universal level, so God doesn't figure into our daily lives. I believe in the holy spirit, or what I think would be more accurately described as the divine human spirit. But again, the holy spirit doesn't judge you. Only you judge you.

Imagine if you will, you die and go to heaven and at the Pearly Gates, the first thing he asks you is, did you ever try those magic mushrooms?

Why the hell do you think God created magic mushrooms? Why do you think he created marijuana? We're supposed to liberate our minds from the system of oppression set up by humans. We can connect with the spiritual realm through something as simple as meditation.

What this means is you need to stop asking for things, stop praying for help. Still your mind and learn to be receptive to the energy of the spiritual realm. When Jesus said love your neighbor, he (or the author) used the term agape. This is spiritual love, so you are meant to develop your own connection to the spiritual realm so that you can connect with others through it and feel a sense of community. You can be surrounded by bodies and feel alone, but if you surround yourself with spirits, I guarantee you will not feel alone.

Most of the issues with Christian dogma is a result of the Catholic Church being a human system of oppression for centuries, over a millennium. The list of banned books only ended back in the 1960s. They knew they could control people by keeping them ignorant, so that's what they did.

We need to free ourselves from the oppressive teachings of the Church and find spiritual harmony in society.

Is this all in the book, or are you just telling people what to believe, because I'm confused.

Helix · Mar 10, 2015

Prankster Bob said:
Why the hell do you think God created magic mushrooms? Why do you think he created marijuana? We're supposed to liberate our minds from the system of oppression set up by humans. We can connect with the spiritual realm through something as simple as meditation.

Does that line of logic still work if you replace 'magic mushrooms' and 'marijuana' with 'ricin' and 'strychnine'? (Not literally, of course.)

Prankster Bob · Mar 10, 2015

Helix said:
Does that line of logic still work if you replace 'magic mushrooms' and 'marijuana' with 'ricin' and 'strychnine'? (Not literally, of course.)

yeah, those things kill you so you know not to eat them. lots of mushrooms kill us but people had to try to eat all the different species, dying from the poisonous ones, for us to know to avoid the poisonous mushrooms. They found the magic mushroom with psilocybin and so shamans became an important part of the community, people who could use these substances and commune with the spirit world, bringing back the knowledge to help lead the community.

I think we always exist within a spirit realm, but the mechanism of our brain is limited and we can't see beyond the three spatial dimensions. Maybe you can see time when your eyes are closed. But Aldous Huxley was a genius and he said that hallucinogens opened the doors to perception. Think of how different the world would be now if not for hallucinogens. Just in the recent past, LSD led to the discovery of DNA's double helix structure.

But back in primitive society, people worshiped the magic mushroom as a god.

cornflake · Mar 11, 2015

Prankster Bob said:
yeah, those things kill you so you know not to eat them. lots of mushrooms kill us but people had to try to eat all the different species, dying from the poisonous ones, for us to know to avoid the poisonous mushrooms. They found the magic mushroom with psilocybin and so shamans became an important part of the community, people who could use these substances and commune with the spirit world, bringing back the knowledge to help lead the community.

I think we always exist within a spirit realm, but the mechanism of our brain is limited and we can't see beyond the three spatial dimensions. Maybe you can see time when your eyes are closed. But Aldous Huxley was a genius and he said that hallucinogens opened the doors to perception.

What're we basing genius on here, exactly? Especially as relates to the consumption of hallucinogens? Beyond that - the perpetual stoner in my dorm said that too. Arguably not a genius. Didn't seem to help his career or life any.

Think of how different the world would be now if not for hallucinogens. Just in the recent past, LSD led to the discovery of DNA's double helix structure.

From what I recall, that's speculation that's never been confirmed or, afaik, even actually addressed by Crick.

Even if he were taking LSD when he thought of something, that's what science would call correlation, not causation.

But back in primitive society, people worshiped the magic mushroom as a god.

People also thought the Earth rested on the back of a giant turtle. So?

Prankster Bob · Mar 11, 2015

that stoner you know was quoting Aldous Huxley. And I think Huxley was a genius because of Brave New World. It feels very prophetic.

cornflake · Mar 11, 2015

Prankster Bob said:
that stoner you know was quoting Aldous Huxley. And I think Huxley was a genius because of Brave New World. It feels very prophetic.

I'm fairly confident he was not quoting Huxley.

The idea that hallucinogenic or other such drugs open one's mind, open the doors to the truth, to perception, to being able to understand or commune with the universe, the collective spirit, the lettuce god, whatever, is not new by any means. It's a very, very common idea.

Similar to the drunks who claim they drive/work/operate industrial machinery/whatever *better* and more carefully while drunk, and are thus very safe.

Similar to many of these things.

Michael: I don't know anyone who could get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex.

Sam Weber: Ah, come on. Nothing's more important than sex.

Michael: Oh yeah? Ever gone a week without a rationalization? - The Big Chill

Do people feel more enlightened on drugs? Sure. Do people feel they're safer drivers when drunk? Yep. Do some people have helpful thoughts when on drugs? Sure. Correlation, not causation.

Helix · Mar 11, 2015

People fixate on the Doors of Perception and Brave New World. Nobody takes their cues from Crome Yellow or Antic Hay. (Or even Island, which is BNW through the looking glass.)

In DoP, Huxley wrote about mescaline, which is derived from a cactus, and not psilocybin.

Prankster Bob · Mar 11, 2015

cornflake said:
I'm fairly confident he was not quoting Huxley.

The idea that hallucinogenic or other such drugs open one's mind, open the doors to the truth, to perception, to being able to understand or commune with the universe, the collective spirit, the lettuce god, whatever, is not new by any means. It's a very, very common idea.

Similar to the drunks who claim they drive/work/operate industrial machinery/whatever *better* and more carefully while drunk, and are thus very safe.

Similar to many of these things.

Do people feel more enlightened on drugs? Sure. Do people feel they're safer drivers when drunk? Yep. Do some people have helpful thoughts when on drugs? Sure. Correlation, not causation.

it's very important to realize that some drugs are worse than others. alcohol is one of the worst drugs.

And yes, he was quoting Huxley because people who take psychedelics are socially conscious and overall more intelligent than most people.

cornflake · Mar 11, 2015

Prankster Bob said:
it's very important to realize that some drugs are worse than others. alcohol is one of the worst drugs.

And yes, he was quoting Huxley because people who take psychedelics are socially conscious and overall more intelligent than most people.

The escalating ridiculousness of the proclamations plus the name, I have to admit, are making me wonder.

Calla Lily · Mar 11, 2015

Nope. This isn't a preaching forum.

My first novel was a christian post-apocalyptic redemption story.

Prankster Bob

Gravity

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

Prankster Bob

Deb Kinnard

Prankster Bob

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Helix

socially distancing

Prankster Bob

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Prankster Bob

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Helix

socially distancing

Prankster Bob

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Calla Lily

On hiatus